Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:***SPOILERS***

I liked the series. I thought every actor was great. I think Sienna Miller is a timeless beauty. I am a woman. However, I am struggling with the way people are blatantly referring to both scenarios as rape. I think both scenarios are quite grey. I wanted there to be a definitive “no” uttered from both women but there wasn’t. It was hard to despise James because neither women uttered “no” or “stop”. And yes, in fact, Olivia did say she said not here which to me does imply “yes, I wanna bone you but not right here in the elevator.”

I am all about believing women but if we continue to put out narratives like this as being definitive rape, we are setting ourselves up for failure. I have a son and a daughter. I want my son to know about consent just as much as I want my daughter to use her voice and state definitively when she’s not comfortable in a situation. Yell loudly, “no! Stop! Rape!” So there can be no uncertainty from anyone.

While I’m on it, and expect to be flamed, I’m also unsure why James was being carted off by police at the end. Sure running away when your friend jumps to his death could “maybe” be a crime (failure to report?) but I don’t see what the charge would be, especially 20 years later with no eyewitnesses. Same goes for the Prime Minister. Again, I wanted to hate them both. The Libertine scenes screamed of images from Kavanaugh high school and college days. I just wanted it to be more black and white.

To me it wasn't Kavanaugh. It was the societies at Cambridge, Oxford, etc that were being referenced.

Not everything is about US politics.

Not trying to make it about US politics. I didn’t grow up knowing Cambridge, Oxford societies as I’m American so was likening it to MY experiences. You’re missing the huge point. It wasn’t a clear and cut rape IMO.

My DH and I had this exact discussion and I explained to him that once it gets to a certain point most women are afraid to say no. Violence against women is real and men, if they feel vulnerable/want, will overpower women. Not ALL but if some guys were in that position and the woman said No STOP they might freak out and either dominate to finish (because you said yes prior or let me start "prick tease") or freak out because of the possibility of being charged with sexual assault. To me, if I am having sex and being penetrated and at ANY POINT want to stop then I will tell my DH to stop but I have also been the girl who was drunk and went home with someone and sobered up and was trying to find a way to leave without insulting them/triggering any response because I realized I did not want to be there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Coercion is not consent” is a fantastic way to put it. PP, I’m sorry about what happened to you. It’s what you and others have said. There needs to be an affirmative yes, and if that yes changes to a no or even changes to a not-enthused, then the other person needs to stop. And part of sex Ed should be learning about different conversation styles and how/why women aren’t always comfortable just yelling “no” and screaming for help. Checking in with your sex partner all along the way is an important part of having sex.

+100

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Coercion is not consent” is a fantastic way to put it. PP, I’m sorry about what happened to you. It’s what you and others have said. There needs to be an affirmative yes, and if that yes changes to a no or even changes to a not-enthused, then the other person needs to stop. And part of sex Ed should be learning about different conversation styles and how/why women aren’t always comfortable just yelling “no” and screaming for help. Checking in with your sex partner all along the way is an important part of having sex.

+100

Anonymous wrote:“Coercion is not consent” is a fantastic way to put it. PP, I’m sorry about what happened to you. It’s what you and others have said. There needs to be an affirmative yes, and if that yes changes to a no or even changes to a not-enthused, then the other person needs to stop. And part of sex Ed should be learning about different conversation styles and how/why women aren’t always comfortable just yelling “no” and screaming for help. Checking in with your sex partner all along the way is an important part of having sex.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:***SPOILERS***

I liked the series. I thought every actor was great. I think Sienna Miller is a timeless beauty. I am a woman. However, I am struggling with the way people are blatantly referring to both scenarios as rape. I think both scenarios are quite grey. I wanted there to be a definitive “no” uttered from both women but there wasn’t. It was hard to despise James because neither women uttered “no” or “stop”. And yes, in fact, Olivia did say she said not here which to me does imply “yes, I wanna bone you but not right here in the elevator.”

I am all about believing women but if we continue to put out narratives like this as being definitive rape, we are setting ourselves up for failure. I have a son and a daughter. I want my son to know about consent just as much as I want my daughter to use her voice and state definitively when she’s not comfortable in a situation. Yell loudly, “no! Stop! Rape!” So there can be no uncertainty from anyone.

While I’m on it, and expect to be flamed, I’m also unsure why James was being carted off by police at the end. Sure running away when your friend jumps to his death could “maybe” be a crime (failure to report?) but I don’t see what the charge would be, especially 20 years later with no eyewitnesses. Same goes for the Prime Minister. Again, I wanted to hate them both. The Libertine scenes screamed of images from Kavanaugh high school and college days. I just wanted it to be more black and white.

It’s not difficult.

Teach your son that CONSENT means a person SAYING YES, not just not saying no.

Teach your son not to shove his penis inside anyone unless he has been invited to do so and is sure his partner is saying yes.

Teach your son that a drunk girl you literally just bumped into who consents you French kiss you isn’t automatically consenting to a penis being shoved inside her 39 second later with no discussion, no foreplay, no flirting, no nothing.

Literally NO ONE WANTS THAT.

The lack of consent is very clear…,when did he ever ask for consent? When did you ever see any even slight indication that Holly Berry requested his penis inside her?

It scares me that you’re raising a boy and you think this is grey.

Anonymous wrote:***SPOILERS***

I liked the series. I thought every actor was great. I think Sienna Miller is a timeless beauty. I am a woman. However, I am struggling with the way people are blatantly referring to both scenarios as rape. I think both scenarios are quite grey. I wanted there to be a definitive “no” uttered from both women but there wasn’t. It was hard to despise James because neither women uttered “no” or “stop”. And yes, in fact, Olivia did say she said not here which to me does imply “yes, I wanna bone you but not right here in the elevator.”

I am all about believing women but if we continue to put out narratives like this as being definitive rape, we are setting ourselves up for failure. I have a son and a daughter. I want my son to know about consent just as much as I want my daughter to use her voice and state definitively when she’s not comfortable in a situation. Yell loudly, “no! Stop! Rape!” So there can be no uncertainty from anyone.

While I’m on it, and expect to be flamed, I’m also unsure why James was being carted off by police at the end. Sure running away when your friend jumps to his death could “maybe” be a crime (failure to report?) but I don’t see what the charge would be, especially 20 years later with no eyewitnesses. Same goes for the Prime Minister. Again, I wanted to hate them both. The Libertine scenes screamed of images from Kavanaugh high school and college days. I just wanted it to be more black and white.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:***SPOILERS***

I liked the series. I thought every actor was great. I think Sienna Miller is a timeless beauty. I am a woman. However, I am struggling with the way people are blatantly referring to both scenarios as rape. I think both scenarios are quite grey. I wanted there to be a definitive “no” uttered from both women but there wasn’t. It was hard to despise James because neither women uttered “no” or “stop”. And yes, in fact, Olivia did say she said not here which to me does imply “yes, I wanna bone you but not right here in the elevator.”

I am all about believing women but if we continue to put out narratives like this as being definitive rape, we are setting ourselves up for failure. I have a son and a daughter. I want my son to know about consent just as much as I want my daughter to use her voice and state definitively when she’s not comfortable in a situation. Yell loudly, “no! Stop! Rape!” So there can be no uncertainty from anyone.

While I’m on it, and expect to be flamed, I’m also unsure why James was being carted off by police at the end. Sure running away when your friend jumps to his death could “maybe” be a crime (failure to report?) but I don’t see what the charge would be, especially 20 years later with no eyewitnesses. Same goes for the Prime Minister. Again, I wanted to hate them both. The Libertine scenes screamed of images from Kavanaugh high school and college days. I just wanted it to be more black and white.

To me it wasn't Kavanaugh. It was the societies at Cambridge, Oxford, etc that were being referenced.

Not everything is about US politics.

Not trying to make it about US politics. I didn’t grow up knowing Cambridge, Oxford societies as I’m American so was likening it to MY experiences. You’re missing the huge point. It wasn’t a clear and cut rape IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:***SPOILERS***

I liked the series. I thought every actor was great. I think Sienna Miller is a timeless beauty. I am a woman. However, I am struggling with the way people are blatantly referring to both scenarios as rape. I think both scenarios are quite grey. I wanted there to be a definitive “no” uttered from both women but there wasn’t. It was hard to despise James because neither women uttered “no” or “stop”. And yes, in fact, Olivia did say she said not here which to me does imply “yes, I wanna bone you but not right here in the elevator.”

I am all about believing women but if we continue to put out narratives like this as being definitive rape, we are setting ourselves up for failure. I have a son and a daughter. I want my son to know about consent just as much as I want my daughter to use her voice and state definitively when she’s not comfortable in a situation. Yell loudly, “no! Stop! Rape!” So there can be no uncertainty from anyone.

While I’m on it, and expect to be flamed, I’m also unsure why James was being carted off by police at the end. Sure running away when your friend jumps to his death could “maybe” be a crime (failure to report?) but I don’t see what the charge would be, especially 20 years later with no eyewitnesses. Same goes for the Prime Minister. Again, I wanted to hate them both. The Libertine scenes screamed of images from Kavanaugh high school and college days. I just wanted it to be more black and white.

Disagree with you. If he didn't know it wasn't consensual, then why did he say what he said (the prosecutor questioned him on this which he denied)? It devolved into a 'he said, she said' which is sad and it's sadder that the jury didn't convict. Shows how misogynistic society still is.

DP. And I disagree with you and agree completely with the PP. There is no way a jury could convict someone over a he said/she said like this - especially one which started off completely consensual. You can't put someone in jail over a murky situation. That's not "misogyny," that's due process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:***SPOILERS***

I liked the series. I thought every actor was great. I think Sienna Miller is a timeless beauty. I am a woman. However, I am struggling with the way people are blatantly referring to both scenarios as rape. I think both scenarios are quite grey. I wanted there to be a definitive “no” uttered from both women but there wasn’t. It was hard to despise James because neither women uttered “no” or “stop”. And yes, in fact, Olivia did say she said not here which to me does imply “yes, I wanna bone you but not right here in the elevator.”

I am all about believing women but if we continue to put out narratives like this as being definitive rape, we are setting ourselves up for failure. I have a son and a daughter. I want my son to know about consent just as much as I want my daughter to use her voice and state definitively when she’s not comfortable in a situation. Yell loudly, “no! Stop! Rape!” So there can be no uncertainty from anyone.

While I’m on it, and expect to be flamed, I’m also unsure why James was being carted off by police at the end. Sure running away when your friend jumps to his death could “maybe” be a crime (failure to report?) but I don’t see what the charge would be, especially 20 years later with no eyewitnesses. Same goes for the Prime Minister. Again, I wanted to hate them both. The Libertine scenes screamed of images from Kavanaugh high school and college days. I just wanted it to be more black and white.

Disagree with you. If he didn't know it wasn't consensual, then why did he say what he said (the prosecutor questioned him on this which he denied)? It devolved into a 'he said, she said' which is sad and it's sadder that the jury didn't convict. Shows how misogynistic society still is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually enjoyed watching Sienna Miller. She was poised but not zen nor complacent. They slept in the same bed but didn't have any physical contact after the revelation. She gets lots of criticism because she's gorgeous and IMO many people can't accept that a beautiful woman can also be great at her job.

+1
I was a PP who didn’t felt she was far too calm early on, but the horror of the situation did seem to eventually dawn on her. Sienna Miller did a great job, especially in the last episode.

I absolutely loved their house and her clothes. Swoon. I didn’t find James to be particularly attractive. Something about his face really turned me off.

I agree with the PPs who said the ending was implausible (arresting him for a 20 yr old incident with no eye witnesses or proof). Very silly. I also agree with the poster who pointed out that there’s just far too much gray area here to call this “rape.”

This. He was supposed to be this good-looking guy but he wasn't. He's a good actor though. I also thought Miller did a good job in this.

I'm sorry but I find Rupert Friend immensely attractive. I think it was his role on Homeland that did it for me - he was amazing in that. Such a journey. And who couldn't love all that thick, shiny hair of his ? Yes please.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great cast. Michelle Dockery was great/ it’s always impressive when an actor can convincingly act an entirely new role from the one they are known for.

She was excellent in the role. I also liked the actress who played the defense attorney.

Anonymous wrote:***SPOILERS***

I liked the series. I thought every actor was great. I think Sienna Miller is a timeless beauty. I am a woman. However, I am struggling with the way people are blatantly referring to both scenarios as rape. I think both scenarios are quite grey. I wanted there to be a definitive “no” uttered from both women but there wasn’t. It was hard to despise James because neither women uttered “no” or “stop”. And yes, in fact, Olivia did say she said not here which to me does imply “yes, I wanna bone you but not right here in the elevator.”

I am all about believing women but if we continue to put out narratives like this as being definitive rape, we are setting ourselves up for failure. I have a son and a daughter. I want my son to know about consent just as much as I want my daughter to use her voice and state definitively when she’s not comfortable in a situation. Yell loudly, “no! Stop! Rape!” So there can be no uncertainty from anyone.

While I’m on it, and expect to be flamed, I’m also unsure why James was being carted off by police at the end. Sure running away when your friend jumps to his death could “maybe” be a crime (failure to report?) but I don’t see what the charge would be, especially 20 years later with no eyewitnesses. Same goes for the Prime Minister. Again, I wanted to hate them both. The Libertine scenes screamed of images from Kavanaugh high school and college days. I just wanted it to be more black and white.

Anonymous wrote:Great cast. Michelle Dockery was great/ it’s always impressive when an actor can convincingly act an entirely new role from the one they are known for.