Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question gets asked every year. You only think it’s an unusual year because your kid was part of it.

I actually think OP is accurate. Borders were closed to international visas, so 2 years of candidates from abroad were stuck at home. Then domestically many parents pulled their kids out of college out of fear of the virus or instructed juniors/seniors to delay and take a gap year because there was societal panic.

So yeah even if that led to a 20% surge in applications - tougher all around.

Lol, having the borders closed for a few years took out a large proportion of the top end of competition and opened up slots for US kids that in days past would be less likely to get in.

This is another reason why since the pandemic its become easier, not harder, for US kids.

Delusional

The US has a dubious distinction of having an uncompetitive high school educational system for the vast majority of students. In our country, students rank near the bottom compared to other industrialized countries in math and reading.

What the US is very good at is promoting a woke culture: what bathrooms should trans kids get to use, reasons why grades and standardized tests are racists, how can US people get more gibs from the government without thinking about how to actually earn it, etc.

In professions that contribute to national power? Not so much.

Why do you think most doctors are international? Why are many of the most advanced/valuable companies in the US populated by internationals?

These international students not only come to US colleges more prepared than US students they also come full pay without asking for handouts, whining about how expensive it is, how many snow days are gifted, no homework policies students are already too stressed out, unlimited second chances for disruptive students that conduct criminal tier behavior otherwise again its racists, etc.

Not saying that I like it, but its the hard truth and the most successful college grads from the elite colleges are often international students.


https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-12-03/us-students-show-no-improvement-in-math-reading-science-on-international-exam

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-students-continue-to-lag-behind-peers-in-east-asia-and-europe-in-reading-math-and-science-exams-show/2019/12/02/e9e3b37c-153d-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

There is a power in standing for social justice. For having an independent justice system.

Everything is notabout money and tech/corporations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The ivies + s + mit are going to eventually be 50+ international students

Even if you take away the fact that academically these international students are light years ahead of US students, they are all full pay and often with considerable donations

Where are you getting this? Harvard has the same financial aid process for international and domestic students. Brown plans to move to need-blind admissions for international students with the class of 2029.

The need based admissions for international students will be from URM equivalent places and will not be in lieu of the financial source nations

So what does this mean?

Those that are seeking financial aid will be competing for a shrinking pot + those that are providing the financial source will have increasingly greater influence + demand from these colleges

People often forget that the elite colleges operate their institutions much like successful business and hence why some of these ivies have greater wealth than most countries in the world (compare endowments compared to a country's foreign reserves).

Harvard which has about 22k students has an endowment (again sourced from full pay + donations) is $53 billion which is about the same as the foreign reserves of Sweden or Netherlands and greater than any Latin American or South American nation except Brazil and Mexico

That is just one country, Yale is $42 billion, Stanford $38 billion, Princeton $38 billion

This endowment comes from tuition, donors and managed by investment managers, so full pay + donation student is inherently of greater value than somebody that is clamoring for financial aid

This is gibberish.

This is why you got rejected from ivies or if you did attend are probably not donating back a meaningful amount, you think you are playing checkers but the game is actually chess

t. family + extended family 31 ivy grads and yes we were full pay + donate

And this proves that the least qualified attendees of an Ivy League school are the donor kids.

Every male in family scored over 1500+ on sat to include back in the day before score readjustments, most of the females too

All of us graduated top 2% in competitive high schools that ranks kids, 2 valedictorians, 3 salutatorians

7 were all-state athletes to include 3 in "real" male competitive sports and D1 athletes, 1 was an all-american

3 class presidents, 7 vice presidents

And 0 of these people actually existed

Its very difficult for somebody like you to understand but the ivies are filled with people just like this, 99%+ are exceptional and literally only the "best" get offers of admission

Every year in every generation the top kids go to ivies + s + mit, its the same story, if you are truly in the top 1% in criteria that the elites care about you are going to be offered admissions to ivies, its actually a very fair and straightforward process but it stings to those sitting outside of that top 1%

Walk around any of the ivies on any given day, there are thousands of students that fill this criteria and believe it or not they all deserved to be there

To be honest, as an ivy grad, I'm actually surprised there is not a backlash against the ivies because of this inherent elitism, so if a kid is say top 2% or 3% do they suck? No, but its an unspoken acceptance by those on the inside that those on the outside are somehow less than those on the inside and this becomes more of a thing the more careers advance to say public company CEOs, private equity partners, top 10 law partners, top 5 investment banks, etc...

Wow. Whatever kool aid you had, I’d like some too please.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TO + woke admissions officers

Yes. Harvard is so woke that the percentage of black, Hispanic and first gen admits all went down this year compared to last year.

Bc it was so obscenely high last year, no way they could pull
It off this year esp with scotus smack down coming

Anonymous wrote:TO + woke admissions officers

Yes. Harvard is so woke that the percentage of black, Hispanic and first gen admits all went down this year compared to last year.

TO + woke admissions officers

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The ivies + s + mit are going to eventually be 50+ international students

Even if you take away the fact that academically these international students are light years ahead of US students, they are all full pay and often with considerable donations

Where are you getting this? Harvard has the same financial aid process for international and domestic students. Brown plans to move to need-blind admissions for international students with the class of 2029.

The need based admissions for international students will be from URM equivalent places and will not be in lieu of the financial source nations

So what does this mean?

Those that are seeking financial aid will be competing for a shrinking pot + those that are providing the financial source will have increasingly greater influence + demand from these colleges

People often forget that the elite colleges operate their institutions much like successful business and hence why some of these ivies have greater wealth than most countries in the world (compare endowments compared to a country's foreign reserves).

Harvard which has about 22k students has an endowment (again sourced from full pay + donations) is $53 billion which is about the same as the foreign reserves of Sweden or Netherlands and greater than any Latin American or South American nation except Brazil and Mexico

That is just one country, Yale is $42 billion, Stanford $38 billion, Princeton $38 billion

This endowment comes from tuition, donors and managed by investment managers, so full pay + donation student is inherently of greater value than somebody that is clamoring for financial aid

This is gibberish.

This is why you got rejected from ivies or if you did attend are probably not donating back a meaningful amount, you think you are playing checkers but the game is actually chess

t. family + extended family 31 ivy grads and yes we were full pay + donate

And this proves that the least qualified attendees of an Ivy League school are the donor kids.

Every male in family scored over 1500+ on sat to include back in the day before score readjustments, most of the females too

All of us graduated top 2% in competitive high schools that ranks kids, 2 valedictorians, 3 salutatorians

7 were all-state athletes to include 3 in "real" male competitive sports and D1 athletes, 1 was an all-american

3 class presidents, 7 vice presidents

And 0 of these people actually existed

Also, this is very common among legacies

The problem is that there are first gen ivy grads that literally give back nothing, maybe a few thousand a year, and then when their kids apply they start to cry and scream about legacy status

There is an fictional stereotype that legacies are often very undeserving but in reality they are often the greatest contributors from a generational impact perspective

The "true" legacies are those that are part of a generational wealth franchise where there are strong loyalties to a particular college by not only giving back but also producing kings (and queens) of industry, finance, politics etc and are big cheerleaders as an alumn

Its a similar to theme in sports and why the Mannings are all stud athletes

To quote Bjorn Ironside when speaking with his brothers, "we are equal as brothers but not as warriors"...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The ivies + s + mit are going to eventually be 50+ international students

Even if you take away the fact that academically these international students are light years ahead of US students, they are all full pay and often with considerable donations

Where are you getting this? Harvard has the same financial aid process for international and domestic students. Brown plans to move to need-blind admissions for international students with the class of 2029.

The need based admissions for international students will be from URM equivalent places and will not be in lieu of the financial source nations

So what does this mean?

Those that are seeking financial aid will be competing for a shrinking pot + those that are providing the financial source will have increasingly greater influence + demand from these colleges

People often forget that the elite colleges operate their institutions much like successful business and hence why some of these ivies have greater wealth than most countries in the world (compare endowments compared to a country's foreign reserves).

Harvard which has about 22k students has an endowment (again sourced from full pay + donations) is $53 billion which is about the same as the foreign reserves of Sweden or Netherlands and greater than any Latin American or South American nation except Brazil and Mexico

That is just one country, Yale is $42 billion, Stanford $38 billion, Princeton $38 billion

This endowment comes from tuition, donors and managed by investment managers, so full pay + donation student is inherently of greater value than somebody that is clamoring for financial aid

This is gibberish.

This is why you got rejected from ivies or if you did attend are probably not donating back a meaningful amount, you think you are playing checkers but the game is actually chess

t. family + extended family 31 ivy grads and yes we were full pay + donate

And this proves that the least qualified attendees of an Ivy League school are the donor kids.

Every male in family scored over 1500+ on sat to include back in the day before score readjustments, most of the females too

All of us graduated top 2% in competitive high schools that ranks kids, 2 valedictorians, 3 salutatorians

7 were all-state athletes to include 3 in "real" male competitive sports and D1 athletes, 1 was an all-american

3 class presidents, 7 vice presidents

And 0 of these people actually existed

Its very difficult for somebody like you to understand but the ivies are filled with people just like this, 99%+ are exceptional and literally only the "best" get offers of admission

Every year in every generation the top kids go to ivies + s + mit, its the same story, if you are truly in the top 1% in criteria that the elites care about you are going to be offered admissions to ivies, its actually a very fair and straightforward process but it stings to those sitting outside of that top 1%

Walk around any of the ivies on any given day, there are thousands of students that fill this criteria and believe it or not they all deserved to be there

To be honest, as an ivy grad, I'm actually surprised there is not a backlash against the ivies because of this inherent elitism, so if a kid is say top 2% or 3% do they suck? No, but its an unspoken acceptance by those on the inside that those on the outside are somehow less than those on the inside and this becomes more of a thing the more careers advance to say public company CEOs, private equity partners, top 10 law partners, top 5 investment banks, etc...

Re: all the commentary about international students....

International students make up a relatively small portion of UNDERGRADUATE students at nearly all of the "top" ( ) schools and there have not been substantial changes in recent years.

Data is from the federal government, which has stringent reporting guidelines (and schools must report data yearly to IPEDS/NCES, in a specific format, so this is the most consistent/accurate you'll find):

Harvard -- 12.3%
Yale -- 10%
Stanford -- 10.7%
Princeton -- 11.7%
Vanderbilt -- 9.7%
Duke -- 8.0%
WashU -- 7.2%
Northwestern -- 9.7%
Brown -- 11.9%
Rice -- 12.2%
MIT -- 10.3%
Cornell -- 9.7%
Amherst -- 10.2%
Williams -- 8.5%
Pomona -- 11.1%
Wellesley -- 13.5%

Outliers are UChicago (15%) and Swarthmore (15%).

Note that for federal government purposes, an "international student" is considered a "non-resident alien." They require a visa to study at a US institution (usually F-1 but not necessarily always).

Students who are US citizens but born or raised abroad, or are permanent residents, or are dual US/something citizens, or whatever...they are NOT considered international students by the US government (I feel like this is obvious...but sometimes people don't understand this). A kid who graduates from a US high school meanwhile COULD be an international student (depending on citizenship/residency status).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The ivies + s + mit are going to eventually be 50+ international students

Even if you take away the fact that academically these international students are light years ahead of US students, they are all full pay and often with considerable donations

Where are you getting this? Harvard has the same financial aid process for international and domestic students. Brown plans to move to need-blind admissions for international students with the class of 2029.

The need based admissions for international students will be from URM equivalent places and will not be in lieu of the financial source nations

So what does this mean?

Those that are seeking financial aid will be competing for a shrinking pot + those that are providing the financial source will have increasingly greater influence + demand from these colleges

People often forget that the elite colleges operate their institutions much like successful business and hence why some of these ivies have greater wealth than most countries in the world (compare endowments compared to a country's foreign reserves).

Harvard which has about 22k students has an endowment (again sourced from full pay + donations) is $53 billion which is about the same as the foreign reserves of Sweden or Netherlands and greater than any Latin American or South American nation except Brazil and Mexico

That is just one country, Yale is $42 billion, Stanford $38 billion, Princeton $38 billion

This endowment comes from tuition, donors and managed by investment managers, so full pay + donation student is inherently of greater value than somebody that is clamoring for financial aid

This is gibberish.

This is why you got rejected from ivies or if you did attend are probably not donating back a meaningful amount, you think you are playing checkers but the game is actually chess

t. family + extended family 31 ivy grads and yes we were full pay + donate

And this proves that the least qualified attendees of an Ivy League school are the donor kids.

Every male in family scored over 1500+ on sat to include back in the day before score readjustments, most of the females too

All of us graduated top 2% in competitive high schools that ranks kids, 2 valedictorians, 3 salutatorians

7 were all-state athletes to include 3 in "real" male competitive sports and D1 athletes, 1 was an all-american

3 class presidents, 7 vice presidents

And 0 of these people actually existed

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s a mystery

1. The top colleges have barely added any new seats to incoming classes in 40 years. Yet we have 3mm more HS graduates. That’s 300,000 more students in the top 10% if their class vying for that tiny number of seats.
2. Increased foreign applicants as the US tries to lure talent
3. COVID grade inflation made more kids think they were more accomplished than they really were
4. General dilution of the SAT. Since college board reverted to the 1600 scale from the 2400 scale, they did NOT return to the same scale as pre-2400. Todays scores equate to 60-100 points lower on the old 1600 scale.
5. Test optional gives more people a punchers chance. Note I am actually in favor of TO. I am a devout non-believer in the SAT/ACT and what they purport to measure.
6. Common App majes it ever easier to spam 20 schools. I applied to 4 schools in HS in the mid-90s. Each application had to be typed on a typewriter or hand filled in. Tedious.
7. The ever-increasing influence of stupid rankings, combined with anxiety over being one of the have nots if you don’t get into a top 20.

Agree with most of this. Fee waivers were advertised and encouraged. Where did you see that the number of high school graduates has increased. I thought that the number of high school graduates has remained flat and the number of college applicants is decreasing and the number of male applicants is decreasing (the job market is strong). But in any case, there are more applications than ever at the schools on the USNWR lists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The ivies + s + mit are going to eventually be 50+ international students

Even if you take away the fact that academically these international students are light years ahead of US students, they are all full pay and often with considerable donations

Where are you getting this? Harvard has the same financial aid process for international and domestic students. Brown plans to move to need-blind admissions for international students with the class of 2029.

The need based admissions for international students will be from URM equivalent places and will not be in lieu of the financial source nations

So what does this mean?

Those that are seeking financial aid will be competing for a shrinking pot + those that are providing the financial source will have increasingly greater influence + demand from these colleges

People often forget that the elite colleges operate their institutions much like successful business and hence why some of these ivies have greater wealth than most countries in the world (compare endowments compared to a country's foreign reserves).

Harvard which has about 22k students has an endowment (again sourced from full pay + donations) is $53 billion which is about the same as the foreign reserves of Sweden or Netherlands and greater than any Latin American or South American nation except Brazil and Mexico

That is just one country, Yale is $42 billion, Stanford $38 billion, Princeton $38 billion

This endowment comes from tuition, donors and managed by investment managers, so full pay + donation student is inherently of greater value than somebody that is clamoring for financial aid

This is gibberish.

This is why you got rejected from ivies or if you did attend are probably not donating back a meaningful amount, you think you are playing checkers but the game is actually chess

t. family + extended family 31 ivy grads and yes we were full pay + donate

And this proves that the least qualified attendees of an Ivy League school are the donor kids.

Every male in family scored over 1500+ on sat to include back in the day before score readjustments, most of the females too

All of us graduated top 2% in competitive high schools that ranks kids, 2 valedictorians, 3 salutatorians

7 were all-state athletes to include 3 in "real" male competitive sports and D1 athletes, 1 was an all-american

3 class presidents, 7 vice presidents

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can understand taking out international students for consideration of the remaining spots, but Asian American and Jewish American students are also Americans.

Yes, agree but why do the colleges even keep track of this information if they are simply Americans?

In the past they counted Jewish American people to avoid having too many

Today, they are counting Asian American people to avoid having too many as well

If you want society to perceive all groups as equal then stop building mechanisms for distinction (division)

But this is never going to happen because if this were to happen the elite colleges would be 80% Asian American and Jewish American (see UC Berkeley when AA policies were dropped) and that's racists

It’s offensive to say that the “typical American” is white and is competing for spots left over after Jews and Asian Americans take spots. They are all competing for the same spots. There is no minimum percentage of either group.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The ivies + s + mit are going to eventually be 50+ international students

Even if you take away the fact that academically these international students are light years ahead of US students, they are all full pay and often with considerable donations

Where are you getting this? Harvard has the same financial aid process for international and domestic students. Brown plans to move to need-blind admissions for international students with the class of 2029.

The need based admissions for international students will be from URM equivalent places and will not be in lieu of the financial source nations

So what does this mean?

Those that are seeking financial aid will be competing for a shrinking pot + those that are providing the financial source will have increasingly greater influence + demand from these colleges

People often forget that the elite colleges operate their institutions much like successful business and hence why some of these ivies have greater wealth than most countries in the world (compare endowments compared to a country's foreign reserves).

Harvard which has about 22k students has an endowment (again sourced from full pay + donations) is $53 billion which is about the same as the foreign reserves of Sweden or Netherlands and greater than any Latin American or South American nation except Brazil and Mexico

That is just one country, Yale is $42 billion, Stanford $38 billion, Princeton $38 billion

This endowment comes from tuition, donors and managed by investment managers, so full pay + donation student is inherently of greater value than somebody that is clamoring for financial aid

This is gibberish.

This is why you got rejected from ivies or if you did attend are probably not donating back a meaningful amount, you think you are playing checkers but the game is actually chess

t. family + extended family 31 ivy grads and yes we were full pay + donate

Some of us didn't need to buy our way in.

Most of our family could get in without the financial aspect but its silly/embarrassing to ask for a discount or rebate when the total tuition + board, etc. is less than $500k

Be realistic, the ivies are sought after because people want to be part of this type of demographic

Also, personally, I'm 100% for letting the poorer classes in because the more people increase in wealth the larger the size of the economic pie, but find the entitled attitude of a lot of undeserving people distasteful

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question gets asked every year. You only think it’s an unusual year because your kid was part of it.

I actually think OP is accurate. Borders were closed to international visas, so 2 years of candidates from abroad were stuck at home. Then domestically many parents pulled their kids out of college out of fear of the virus or instructed juniors/seniors to delay and take a gap year because there was societal panic.

So yeah even if that led to a 20% surge in applications - tougher all around.

Lol, having the borders closed for a few years took out a large proportion of the top end of competition and opened up slots for US kids that in days past would be less likely to get in.

This is another reason why since the pandemic its become easier, not harder, for US kids.

Delusional

The US has a dubious distinction of having an uncompetitive high school educational system for the vast majority of students. In our country, students rank near the bottom compared to other industrialized countries in math and reading.

What the US is very good at is promoting a woke culture: what bathrooms should trans kids get to use, reasons why grades and standardized tests are racists, how can US people get more gibs from the government without thinking about how to actually earn it, etc.

In professions that contribute to national power? Not so much.

Why do you think most doctors are international? Why are many of the most advanced/valuable companies in the US populated by internationals?

These international students not only come to US colleges more prepared than US students they also come full pay without asking for handouts, whining about how expensive it is, how many snow days are gifted, no homework policies students are already too stressed out, unlimited second chances for disruptive students that conduct criminal tier behavior otherwise again its racists, etc.

Not saying that I like it, but its the hard truth and the most successful college grads from the elite colleges are often international students.


https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-12-03/us-students-show-no-improvement-in-math-reading-science-on-international-exam

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-students-continue-to-lag-behind-peers-in-east-asia-and-europe-in-reading-math-and-science-exams-show/2019/12/02/e9e3b37c-153d-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

The conspiracies run strong in you.

You think any student at Yale is complaining about the level of homework?

About a third physicians in the US are foreign educated, so it's not "most." Admission to US med schools remains very competitive.

Lol when was the last time you saw a doctor that was a white blonde hair/blue eyes anglo-saxon heritage male which was essentially the most common male phenotype for the initial 100+ years of the US? Take a look at the other 70% and most will be naturalized or first gen immigrants

Lol International students can’t even come here without X amount of money in their bank account. It’s mostly rich International students. Of course they don’t have to complain about price. And they’re not paying, their parents are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The ivies + s + mit are going to eventually be 50+ international students

Even if you take away the fact that academically these international students are light years ahead of US students, they are all full pay and often with considerable donations

Where are you getting this? Harvard has the same financial aid process for international and domestic students. Brown plans to move to need-blind admissions for international students with the class of 2029.

The need based admissions for international students will be from URM equivalent places and will not be in lieu of the financial source nations

So what does this mean?

Those that are seeking financial aid will be competing for a shrinking pot + those that are providing the financial source will have increasingly greater influence + demand from these colleges

People often forget that the elite colleges operate their institutions much like successful business and hence why some of these ivies have greater wealth than most countries in the world (compare endowments compared to a country's foreign reserves).

Harvard which has about 22k students has an endowment (again sourced from full pay + donations) is $53 billion which is about the same as the foreign reserves of Sweden or Netherlands and greater than any Latin American or South American nation except Brazil and Mexico

That is just one country, Yale is $42 billion, Stanford $38 billion, Princeton $38 billion

This endowment comes from tuition, donors and managed by investment managers, so full pay + donation student is inherently of greater value than somebody that is clamoring for financial aid

This is gibberish.

This is why you got rejected from ivies or if you did attend are probably not donating back a meaningful amount, you think you are playing checkers but the game is actually chess

t. family + extended family 31 ivy grads and yes we were full pay + donate

And this proves that the least qualified attendees of an Ivy League school are the donor kids.