Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are from the midwest and now live in AZ. Would never ever move back. U of A wins hands down. If the person doesn't want to stay in the midwest, why go to Iowa? If they want to stay in the SW Arizona has better networking.

How do you know where OP's kid wants to live/work? For instance, I never want to live in the water-deprived SW again. And I love Tucson. It just seems so dead-end for the future in terms of climate. (Not sure I want to live in Iowa though either with the floods!). Chicago and other northern midwest cities are on the up-swing with climate change for the long term--and they also aren't going to be flooded with retirees like AZ--so I'd rather settle there if I were a young job-seeker. (Not saying that anyone should share my tastes--just saying that we don't know what OP's are).

Are you illiterate? I said it depends on where they want to live. Grew up in Chicago. It sucks and would never move back. This isn't about you it's about OP. You don't seem to know much about Chicago or AZ so I don't know why you're even in this conversation. If you did you would know it's not retirees flooding AZ.

I grew up in Chicago and lived in AZ.
You said " U of A wins hands down. If the person doesn't want to stay in the midwest, why go to Iowa? If they want to stay in the SW Arizona has better networking." Your phrasing suggests you think they don't want to stay in the midwest and you think they want to stay in the SW.

And Arizona is the #2 net migration location for retirees after Florida according to the most recent US Census Bureau report.

Retirees aren't the only people on the move you know. Most people moving to AZ these days are from California.
https://azbigmedia.com/lifestyle/top-10-states-people-are-leaving-and-moving-to-arizona/

Millennials in particular are flocking to Phoenix. https://www.inmaricopa.com/phoenix-popular-city-millennials-moving-west-south/

The OP doesn't say where they live at all, I didn't assume they are even currently in the midwest. So if not even from the midwest why would they want to stay after graduation? Iowa is getting older and grayer, upwardly mobile young people tend to move out and never come back. Arizona is more attractive to long people for obvious reason as backed up by migration patterns as well. This doesn't seem to be a hard decision. Unless you live in Iowa and want in state tuition, but again, OP is short on the details.

Still, a 36000 net migration of retirees to AZ surpasses all their other generational migration.

Arizona isn't even in the top half of the oldest states by age. Illinois and Iowa both have a higher average age. So if you're trying to avoid the retirees why would you stay in the midwest?

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/states-with-the-oldest-population.html
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/oldest-states

The point isn't to avoid retirees--but a net migration of downsizing retirees ups the costs and diminishes the supply for housing for singles/couples.

But the argument here is that most people don't stay where they went to college, so who cares? If OPs child has no interest in staying in AZ or IA then it matters not at all. These schools are similar in almost every regard so it comes down to a personal decision there is no right answer. OP asked for opinions and is getting them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Iowa has the Writer's Workshop -- widely recognized as the premier creative writing program in the country -- which is primarily a graduate program but also offers about 20 courses at the undergraduate level. There's also a non-fiction writing program at Iowa. If an undergrad has any interest in writing, Iowa is nationally known -- and a magnet for writers and intellectual life -- in a way that has no direct counterpart at Arizona.

Sorry to digress from the riveting discussion of weather.

Astrophysics at Arizona is similarly outstanding. (Yes, really.)

Of course it is, not many fields more location driven. Yet, intro astronomy is no different than anywhere else, a way to get a science credit with two multiple choice tests and a moon journal.

I took that class and no, that’s not what it was. But obviously a 101 class doesn’t represent the entire major or department. Why are you so angry about U of A not being awful across the board?

It’s not awful across the board, a self starter can get a very good education there, and plenty of individual attention, but the quality of gen ed classes is very low because of the population.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, suggesting Iowa's some bastion of intellectualism may be disingenuous.

Suggesting it's some bastion of intellectualism compared to Arizona is a pretty apt commentary on Arizona.

is it though? so what is your evidence for this then?

Time spent at both, friendship with tenured faculty at both schools.

Look, each of these schools has strengths - they're better schools than many of the deep south flagships that DCUM is recently agog about -- and they're each situated in communities that have real appeal in their own way. But Iowa shouldn't be dismissed just because most bloviators on DCUM don't really know anything about the Universities of Arizona or Iowa except that one is located where they'd travel to get away from cold weather and the other ... is located in a place they wouldn't travel to. Or because some ex-Chicagoan who doesn't understand the difference between absolute and comparative judgments recalls it as a school that Chicagoland kids who couldn't get into UIUC attended (guess what, OP's kid probably isn't in the running for UVA or UMD either). This chain has really let the OP down.

+1

OP needs to let folks know what the major is. That is the only way for people to weigh in on academics since the reality is that neither of these schools are selective state schools. That is why folks are discussing the weather. Frankly, it makes no sense why OP is even choosing between these schools, after visiting most people would have a strong preference for one over the other. The is also a DC centric board. A lot of us would rather gouge our eyes out than live in either Iowa or AZ.

Iowa isn't emptying out - that misinformation shouldn't be a consideration. Iowa's population isn't growing as fast as Arizona -- few states are -- but Iowa's tied with Indiana as one of the fastest growing states in the Midwest over the past decade (IA's growing faster than NY, PA, IL OH, and all New England states save MA, fwiw). Of the two universities' hometowns, Iowa City is actually growing at a faster rate than Tucson. And Iowa's state capital Des Moines is, unbelievably, adding population at a faster rate than boomtown Phoenix. This isn't the so-called Rustbelt -- many Plains cities (as opposed to small rural towns) are thriving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Iowa has the Writer's Workshop -- widely recognized as the premier creative writing program in the country -- which is primarily a graduate program but also offers about 20 courses at the undergraduate level. There's also a non-fiction writing program at Iowa. If an undergrad has any interest in writing, Iowa is nationally known -- and a magnet for writers and intellectual life -- in a way that has no direct counterpart at Arizona.

Sorry to digress from the riveting discussion of weather.

Astrophysics at Arizona is similarly outstanding. (Yes, really.)

Of course it is, not many fields more location driven. Yet, intro astronomy is no different than anywhere else, a way to get a science credit with two multiple choice tests and a moon journal.

I took that class and no, that’s not what it was. But obviously a 101 class doesn’t represent the entire major or department. Why are you so angry about U of A not being awful across the board?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are from the midwest and now live in AZ. Would never ever move back. U of A wins hands down. If the person doesn't want to stay in the midwest, why go to Iowa? If they want to stay in the SW Arizona has better networking.

How do you know where OP's kid wants to live/work? For instance, I never want to live in the water-deprived SW again. And I love Tucson. It just seems so dead-end for the future in terms of climate. (Not sure I want to live in Iowa though either with the floods!). Chicago and other northern midwest cities are on the up-swing with climate change for the long term--and they also aren't going to be flooded with retirees like AZ--so I'd rather settle there if I were a young job-seeker. (Not saying that anyone should share my tastes--just saying that we don't know what OP's are).

Are you illiterate? I said it depends on where they want to live. Grew up in Chicago. It sucks and would never move back. This isn't about you it's about OP. You don't seem to know much about Chicago or AZ so I don't know why you're even in this conversation. If you did you would know it's not retirees flooding AZ.

I grew up in Chicago and lived in AZ.
You said " U of A wins hands down. If the person doesn't want to stay in the midwest, why go to Iowa? If they want to stay in the SW Arizona has better networking." Your phrasing suggests you think they don't want to stay in the midwest and you think they want to stay in the SW.

And Arizona is the #2 net migration location for retirees after Florida according to the most recent US Census Bureau report.

Retirees aren't the only people on the move you know. Most people moving to AZ these days are from California.
https://azbigmedia.com/lifestyle/top-10-states-people-are-leaving-and-moving-to-arizona/

Millennials in particular are flocking to Phoenix. https://www.inmaricopa.com/phoenix-popular-city-millennials-moving-west-south/

The OP doesn't say where they live at all, I didn't assume they are even currently in the midwest. So if not even from the midwest why would they want to stay after graduation? Iowa is getting older and grayer, upwardly mobile young people tend to move out and never come back. Arizona is more attractive to long people for obvious reason as backed up by migration patterns as well. This doesn't seem to be a hard decision. Unless you live in Iowa and want in state tuition, but again, OP is short on the details.

Still, a 36000 net migration of retirees to AZ surpasses all their other generational migration.

Arizona isn't even in the top half of the oldest states by age. Illinois and Iowa both have a higher average age. So if you're trying to avoid the retirees why would you stay in the midwest?

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/states-with-the-oldest-population.html
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/oldest-states

The point isn't to avoid retirees--but a net migration of downsizing retirees ups the costs and diminishes the supply for housing for singles/couples.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Iowa has the Writer's Workshop -- widely recognized as the premier creative writing program in the country -- which is primarily a graduate program but also offers about 20 courses at the undergraduate level. There's also a non-fiction writing program at Iowa. If an undergrad has any interest in writing, Iowa is nationally known -- and a magnet for writers and intellectual life -- in a way that has no direct counterpart at Arizona.

Sorry to digress from the riveting discussion of weather.

Astrophysics at Arizona is similarly outstanding. (Yes, really.)

Of course it is, not many fields more location driven. Yet, intro astronomy is no different than anywhere else, a way to get a science credit with two multiple choice tests and a moon journal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Iowa has the Writer's Workshop -- widely recognized as the premier creative writing program in the country -- which is primarily a graduate program but also offers about 20 courses at the undergraduate level. There's also a non-fiction writing program at Iowa. If an undergrad has any interest in writing, Iowa is nationally known -- and a magnet for writers and intellectual life -- in a way that has no direct counterpart at Arizona.

Sorry to digress from the riveting discussion of weather.

Astrophysics at Arizona is similarly outstanding. (Yes, really.)

And astronomy and anthropology. Probably environmental science too, especially regarding water issues.

Anonymous wrote:

No, suggesting Iowa's some bastion of intellectualism may be disingenuous.

Suggesting it's some bastion of intellectualism compared to Arizona is a pretty apt commentary on Arizona.

is it though? so what is your evidence for this then?

Time spent at both, friendship with tenured faculty at both schools.

Look, each of these schools has strengths - they're better schools than many of the deep south flagships that DCUM is recently agog about -- and they're each situated in communities that have real appeal in their own way. But Iowa shouldn't be dismissed just because most bloviators on DCUM don't really know anything about the Universities of Arizona or Iowa except that one is located where they'd travel to get away from cold weather and the other ... is located in a place they wouldn't travel to. Or because some ex-Chicagoan who doesn't understand the difference between absolute and comparative judgments recalls it as a school that Chicagoland kids who couldn't get into UIUC attended (guess what, OP's kid probably isn't in the running for UVA or UMD either). This chain has really let the OP down.

+1

Anonymous wrote:Iowa has the Writer's Workshop -- widely recognized as the premier creative writing program in the country -- which is primarily a graduate program but also offers about 20 courses at the undergraduate level. There's also a non-fiction writing program at Iowa. If an undergrad has any interest in writing, Iowa is nationally known -- and a magnet for writers and intellectual life -- in a way that has no direct counterpart at Arizona.

Sorry to digress from the riveting discussion of weather.

Astrophysics at Arizona is similarly outstanding. (Yes, really.)

No, suggesting Iowa's some bastion of intellectualism may be disingenuous.

Suggesting it's some bastion of intellectualism compared to Arizona is a pretty apt commentary on Arizona.

is it though? so what is your evidence for this then?

Time spent at both, friendship with tenured faculty at both schools.

Look, each of these schools has strengths - they're better schools than many of the deep south flagships that DCUM is recently agog about -- and they're each situated in communities that have real appeal in their own way. But Iowa shouldn't be dismissed just because most bloviators on DCUM don't really know anything about the Universities of Arizona or Iowa except that one is located where they'd travel to get away from cold weather and the other ... is located in a place they wouldn't travel to. Or because some ex-Chicagoan who doesn't understand the difference between absolute and comparative judgments recalls it as a school that Chicagoland kids who couldn't get into UIUC attended (guess what, OP's kid probably isn't in the running for UVA or UMD either). This chain has really let the OP down.

What is the potential major?

Anonymous wrote:

suggesting that it's some bastion of intellectualism compared to Arizona is pretty disingenuous.

No, suggesting Iowa's some bastion of intellectualism may be disingenuous.

Suggesting it's some bastion of intellectualism compared to Arizona is a pretty apt commentary on Arizona.

is it though? so what is your evidence for this then?

Iowa has the Writer's Workshop -- widely recognized as the premier creative writing program in the country -- which is primarily a graduate program but also offers about 20 courses at the undergraduate level. There's also a non-fiction writing program at Iowa. If an undergrad has any interest in writing, Iowa is nationally known -- and a magnet for writers and intellectual life -- in a way that has no direct counterpart at Arizona.

Sorry to digress from the riveting discussion of weather.

suggesting that it's some bastion of intellectualism compared to Arizona is pretty disingenuous.

No, suggesting Iowa's some bastion of intellectualism may be disingenuous.

Suggesting it's some bastion of intellectualism compared to Arizona is a pretty apt commentary on Arizona.