Anonymous wrote:OP - I should add that our current jobs are not in Philly. We are working primarily remotely for NYC firms. This has been fine up until parental leave. However, we expect that we'll need to make more trips into the office for in-person meetings and events when we return from leave, and it just seems like too much with an infant at home. So we're at a decision point - do we look for jobs in Philly, or do we look for jobs elsewhere? We do not want to return to NYC, but staying in Philly will likely mean shifting the focus of our practices to areas that we are not interested in. (We both currently do a lot of investigations/white collar work, and there just doesn't seem to be much of that here.)

One of us does not want to return to big law for long (if at all) after leave, while the other is open to sticking it out for a few more years. If we decide to leave Philly, the spouse who wants to leave big law would begin looking for agency jobs, and we'd make the move if/when something works out. The spouse who is open to a few more years of big law would transfer to the DC office of their current firm and would take their time looking for something more family-friendly.

I love DC but I think this is all very mis-conceived. There are several of the biggest biglaw firms headquartered in Philly. The kind of jobs you want definitely exist there, and the quality/cost of life trade off is much better. It’s fine to just want to live in the DMV because it’s a cool place to live, but none of this rationalizing makes any sense at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Philadelphian here. 30 years in DMV. Here is the deal. Philly public schools are hair on fire bad. But private schools in Philly are cheaper and probably just as good if not better than DMV schools. Here you will pay for a million dollar home in Moco or Fairfax and face private school decision anyways when you realize how poor they are. There is TJ and Blair magnet - think Central and Masterman but no longer a guarantee for smart or cram school smart due to woke politics.

PP is correct.

Thank you my friend! I kind of wish I had stayed in Philly / just for the better food!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Double edged sword based on what you're saying. You love the lower COL that Philly and the surrounding area offers, but you're bored with your jobs, and the lack of options where your careers are concerned.

DMV is a very interesting area. A lot of Type-A personalities, super intelligent and well-educated people. Good job stability, career options. With that comes the feeling of needing to constantly keep up, or stay ahead - which is exhausting. At first it may feel exciting and invigorating, but after a while you start dreaming of leaving to a slower paced area.

With your budget, you have options - not a ton though unless you want to move outside the beltway (exburbs). You won't be alone though because many folks are now priced out of close in areas.

And you think that's not true of Philadelphia?

OP, I would add: A lot of people here who think DC is the center of the planet, and thus are oddly more provincial than people in other big cities.

We lived in Philadelphia briefly and I would say no.

Yes, there are some intelligent and well-educated people. Every city has their quota. Philadelphia has universities and companies and research and law firms and arts and culture. But the predominate, prevailing tone of Philadelphia is not, let's put it this way, intelligent and well-educated. Which is fine, for that's what most places are like. DC is a different beast altogether.

I will also be the first to say you don't need to be surrounded by type A personalities all the time. But some people do thrive off the proximity to a large body of type A personalities and Philadelphia isn't going to offer it.

The other gripe we had with Philadelphia is how insular it is. Even the educated upper middle classes are largely home-grown and it's very hard to break into existing circles of close friends with histories going back to kindergarten. I do imagine once OP has children it will become easier to make friends with parents of other kids but as childless people we found it difficult to meet people in Philadelphia. Everyone was pleasant but no more than that. When the opportunity came to leave Philadelphia it was easy for us to go.

Anonymous wrote:Philadelphian here. 30 years in DMV. Here is the deal. Philly public schools are hair on fire bad. But private schools in Philly are cheaper and probably just as good if not better than DMV schools. Here you will pay for a million dollar home in Moco or Fairfax and face private school decision anyways when you realize how poor they are. There is TJ and Blair magnet - think Central and Masterman but no longer a guarantee for smart or cram school smart due to woke politics.

PP is correct.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what DC offers you that NY can’t. Mentioning that since you lived in NY. Both cities have a crime problem and long commutes. Ten years ago DC had way way cheaper real estate so the DC versus NY play could make sense. But now I’m not so sure.

OP - While I'm prepared for DC to be a more stressful and expensive place to live than Philly has been, I have the impression that it's an easier place to raise kids than NYC. Please let me know if I'm mistaken. We don't want to move to DC only to find ourselves dealing with the same issues that we left NYC to avoid.

Housing, while undoubtedly very expensive in DC, still seems less expensive than NYC. We cannot imagine buying real estate in NYC. It also seems like you get more space for what you pay in DC than in NYC. We're also just used to a slightly less urban lifestyle now. That may sound strange given that we live in central Philadelphia, but it's true. We have a car, a little bit of outdoor space, and a dog who would absolutely hate living in NYC. We enjoyed NYC and visit frequently, but we don't want to return.

The NYC burbs also are not appealing to us. It seems much easier to get into DC from the closer-in DC burbs than it is to get into NYC from NJ, LI or Westchester (unless you're near the PATH in NJ). In my (limited) experience, the DC area feels like an easier place to live and raise kids than the NYC. But again - please let me know if I'm off base here.

What do you mean when you say “easier to raise kids?”

I think you will be happier in DC. I made the opposite move, DC to Philly.

I think Philly has much better healthcare, cheaper housing (sort of…), cheaper school tuition, etc. As a lawyer though I think you’d be far happier in DC. I find dc work culture toxic but if you really want to love your job, DC is the place to be.

i think u would really like it! there are relatively speaking lots of large law firm lawyers from all over move here to work at a federal agency. while the salary decrease is significant, its doable in dc and the overall quality of life is great

Watch out for the racist Karen’s who claim that they’re all about diversity all while getting upset if a POC family moves to their neighborhood.

I'm in the DC has horrible housing stock (compared to the philly area), but has good people, schools, and career possibilities. (Especially if you want balance in your life). Unlike Philly, you can actually make it work in the city proper (AU Park, CCDC), or just move to Bethesda/NoVa for the very good public schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what DC offers you that NY can’t. Mentioning that since you lived in NY. Both cities have a crime problem and long commutes. Ten years ago DC had way way cheaper real estate so the DC versus NY play could make sense. But now I’m not so sure.

OP - While I'm prepared for DC to be a more stressful and expensive place to live than Philly has been, I have the impression that it's an easier place to raise kids than NYC. Please let me know if I'm mistaken. We don't want to move to DC only to find ourselves dealing with the same issues that we left NYC to avoid.

Housing, while undoubtedly very expensive in DC, still seems less expensive than NYC. We cannot imagine buying real estate in NYC. It also seems like you get more space for what you pay in DC than in NYC. We're also just used to a slightly less urban lifestyle now. That may sound strange given that we live in central Philadelphia, but it's true. We have a car, a little bit of outdoor space, and a dog who would absolutely hate living in NYC. We enjoyed NYC and visit frequently, but we don't want to return.

The NYC burbs also are not appealing to us. It seems much easier to get into DC from the closer-in DC burbs than it is to get into NYC from NJ, LI or Westchester (unless you're near the PATH in NJ). In my (limited) experience, the DC area feels like an easier place to live and raise kids than the NYC. But again - please let me know if I'm off base here.

I think you should move to DC. I would rent for a couple years first to figure out where you want to live. Rent in DC proper and then decide where you want to buy - DC, MD, VA. I live in the AU Park neighborhood of DC. People here are very friendly. Elementary and middle school here are strong. High school is fine but we made it work. VA is a good option for solid post secondary options. Montgomery County, MD will also suit you. Kensington Parkwood is a nice area that you could afford. Silver Spring has some nice pockets as well. We love living in the DC area.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Double edged sword based on what you're saying. You love the lower COL that Philly and the surrounding area offers, but you're bored with your jobs, and the lack of options where your careers are concerned.

DMV is a very interesting area. A lot of Type-A personalities, super intelligent and well-educated people. Good job stability, career options. With that comes the feeling of needing to constantly keep up, or stay ahead - which is exhausting. At first it may feel exciting and invigorating, but after a while you start dreaming of leaving to a slower paced area.

With your budget, you have options - not a ton though unless you want to move outside the beltway (exburbs). You won't be alone though because many folks are now priced out of close in areas.

And you think that's not true of Philadelphia?

OP, I would add: A lot of people here who think DC is the center of the planet, and thus are oddly more provincial than people in other big cities.

UGH it's the "provincial" poster again.

I think what is true is that DC is a company town for government/politics. So, it can be kind of annoying if you're not interested in it. It's like the entertainment industry in LA, or tech in SF.

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but if you're doing it for career, I think it's the right move. My husband and I both had law firm jobs out in LA, and moved to DC for more interesting opportunities. We both have jobs that we love now, and lots of interesting options.

The housing market is surely a little tougher than Philly but 1.2m is plenty if you're willing to have a bit of a commute or less square footage.

I think they will be disappointed in the housing options at that price.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Double edged sword based on what you're saying. You love the lower COL that Philly and the surrounding area offers, but you're bored with your jobs, and the lack of options where your careers are concerned.

DMV is a very interesting area. A lot of Type-A personalities, super intelligent and well-educated people. Good job stability, career options. With that comes the feeling of needing to constantly keep up, or stay ahead - which is exhausting. At first it may feel exciting and invigorating, but after a while you start dreaming of leaving to a slower paced area.

With your budget, you have options - not a ton though unless you want to move outside the beltway (exburbs). You won't be alone though because many folks are now priced out of close in areas.

And you think that's not true of Philadelphia?

OP, I would add: A lot of people here who think DC is the center of the planet, and thus are oddly more provincial than people in other big cities.

UGH it's the "provincial" poster again.

I didn't read the whole thread but if you're doing it for career, I think it's the right move. My husband and I both had law firm jobs out in LA, and moved to DC for more interesting opportunities. We both have jobs that we love now, and lots of interesting options.

The housing market is surely a little tougher than Philly but 1.2m is plenty if you're willing to have a bit of a commute or less square footage.

OP, before you decide, I would suggest looking just down the road at Wilmington, Delaware. Due to the number of corporations incorporated in Delaware there are a lot of high-paying opportunities in the law relative to the size of the community.

The housing is much less expensive than in D.C. and the commute is a snap. You can have a commute of under 15 minutes from several charming nearby neighborhoods. Or, for a slightly longer commute you can chose to live in a myriad of areas, including a horse farm in Chester County, PA.

The only downside is having to take the Delaware bar. There is no reciprocity.