Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone addressed the possibility of there being some kind of error in the test or the scoring of it? Even with the pandemic and reduced curriculum, I find it difficult to believe that 94% would fail to meet standards. Can we see the questions and answers?

I doubt there is an error given that this is playing out across the country. VL sucked, period.

VL is not the problem. Mcps and parents were. Parents screamed about screen time, mental health and all that nonsense so class time was reduced and no homework. You need practice in math. Practice means homework. And, if kids did not participate that is on the parents. Mcps needs to stop listening to parents who are hurting our kids.

Students' *engagement* with VL was the problem. Is this the problem of the kid? Of the parent? Of MCPS? Probably all three.

My dd is now a freshman at an Ivy and was really struggling in her math class this semester. She went to the TA to go over some things and realized there was a huge hole in her knowledge of pre-calculus-- which she took the year they suddenly went online. She claims the teachers truncated the course and never taught some set of the material (that is now relevant in her current course). I'm guessing that the teacher did cover it, but dd wasn't engaged since they had written off grades at that point. My point is that she was a kid who was good at math and had the ambition to learn it, but apparently learned little when they went to VL. Quite possible her own fault, but nevertheless, VL sucked!

Don't assume the worst of your daughter. There was a chart circulating early last year that showed the amount of curriculum that was cut during VL. I don't recall the stat for pre-cal. But for other classes on the list it was up to 40% of curriculum.

Found the chart: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17TEsJyI4tm8GXMvNaw-uu6-tH-S1ZMC--rXWNC8D1bg/preview

Did you actually look at what your kid learned vs. the curriculum. We did and for Algebra it was most of it and just a very small percentage. Since they cut back on class time, it was impossible to cover everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone addressed the possibility of there being some kind of error in the test or the scoring of it? Even with the pandemic and reduced curriculum, I find it difficult to believe that 94% would fail to meet standards. Can we see the questions and answers?

I doubt there is an error given that this is playing out across the country. VL sucked, period.

VL is not the problem. Mcps and parents were. Parents screamed about screen time, mental health and all that nonsense so class time was reduced and no homework. You need practice in math. Practice means homework. And, if kids did not participate that is on the parents. Mcps needs to stop listening to parents who are hurting our kids.

Students' *engagement* with VL was the problem. Is this the problem of the kid? Of the parent? Of MCPS? Probably all three.

My dd is now a freshman at an Ivy and was really struggling in her math class this semester. She went to the TA to go over some things and realized there was a huge hole in her knowledge of pre-calculus-- which she took the year they suddenly went online. She claims the teachers truncated the course and never taught some set of the material (that is now relevant in her current course). I'm guessing that the teacher did cover it, but dd wasn't engaged since they had written off grades at that point. My point is that she was a kid who was good at math and had the ambition to learn it, but apparently learned little when they went to VL. Quite possible her own fault, but nevertheless, VL sucked!

Don't assume the worst of your daughter. There was a chart circulating early last year that showed the amount of curriculum that was cut during VL. I don't recall the stat for pre-cal. But for other classes on the list it was up to 40% of curriculum.

Found the chart: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17TEsJyI4tm8GXMvNaw-uu6-tH-S1ZMC--rXWNC8D1bg/preview

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone addressed the possibility of there being some kind of error in the test or the scoring of it? Even with the pandemic and reduced curriculum, I find it difficult to believe that 94% would fail to meet standards. Can we see the questions and answers?

I doubt there is an error given that this is playing out across the country. VL sucked, period.

VL is not the problem. Mcps and parents were. Parents screamed about screen time, mental health and all that nonsense so class time was reduced and no homework. You need practice in math. Practice means homework. And, if kids did not participate that is on the parents. Mcps needs to stop listening to parents who are hurting our kids.

I agree that this is part of the problem. Not parents, necessarily, but a certain skewed portrayal of society by the media.

MCPS is listening to a certain tranche of "experts" and the media, who need drama to get their clientele/viewership/readership, and who go all in on the students' need for emotional support and STEM enrichment. MCPS, who has always been very politic and PR-oriented, invested in that crap, and this is the result.

I'm a research scientist. I would prefer kids focus on great writing skills and great mathematical skills, instead of distracting themselves with a variety of fluff. Even the K-12 science curriculum contains a lot of fluff. I can't teach undergrads who come in with poor critical thinking skills, yet who tell me they've had genetics, environmental science, anatomy, forensics, etc, in high school. They haven't gotten anything out of those classes, because their foundational mathematics, reading comprehension and writing skills are POOR.

Let's focus on what really matters, people.

This is going to sound troll-ish, but it is a sincere question: aren’t critical thinking skills more easily and naturally developed by NOT having yearly testing like the MCAP? And not having tons of homework? Yes, less actual material will be covered, but if those thinking skills are in place, whatever areas of weakness there are can be made up later. I believe it’s been shown that too homework is harmful to deep understanding and problem solving. You need that downtime to process what you’ve learned. This is why most scientific breakthroughs (eureka moments) occur outside the lab, when scientists are doing something entirely different, like washing dishes. My daughter in 8th grade has way more homework and works harder than I ever did, even in college (and I went to a good college).

So we pile on the content and the homework, with the idea that we will get better outcomes (similar to ramping up production in an industry) and we devise a test to show much our increase in manufacturing has worked, we stress these kids out even further with prepping for this test, then most of them fail, cannot problem solve or think critically on the spot, we have a teen mental health crisis on our hands (which we do), and we blame the kids, the parents, and the teachers or this mess. Maybe it’s time for a new paradigm?

PP you replied to. I really like the MAP tests, which are adaptive tests and have the ability to test students above their grade levels. The bottom line is that state and county should get their act together and pick just ONE standardized test. That way we don't waste too much instructional time.

I have no problem with homework, but I do have problems with busywork! And most of all, I want quality teachers, because intelligent instruction starts with intelligent teachers. You can have the best curriculum in the world, if the teacher's primary job is to coach a sport and they also teach high school history, we've got a problem. No other wealthy country in the world scrapes the bottom of the barrel like we do when it comes to the low standards of education degrees, and therefore, the low standards when hiring "qualified" teachers. This is because there is no glamour or respect to being a teacher. We need to make it worthwhile again, increase salaries, give a little instructional freedom, give teachers some agency, so that better candidates show up. A good teacher will teach well even with an imperfect curriculum.

I fondly recall all the teachers who were smart and passionate and inspired me. I've also noticed how well my own children do with great teachers, how suddenly they like their subjects and are motivated to greater effort. It makes ALL the difference.

The developmental of critical thinking skills comes from two things:
1. Superior reading comprehension and mathematical foundation. We need to drill this and spend time on it. Success in all other subjects comes from these two things.
2. A curriculum and teachers that give lots of trouble-shooting type of problems, where students cannot just answer by memorizing a rule or formula. This is the Achilles' heel of most school systems, because they barely have enough time to teach the rules and formulas, and hoist weak students into threadbare memorization of same. Instead of filling the school day with all kinds of fluffy, trendy information, we need to spend time on developing critical thinking skills based on foundational knowledge. European countries have that type of curriculum, where they teach fewer topics but go in greater depth. The American curriculum is known to be "a mile wide, and an inch thick". It leads to a shiny superficial coating of knowledge, but all too often, no brain to use it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone addressed the possibility of there being some kind of error in the test or the scoring of it? Even with the pandemic and reduced curriculum, I find it difficult to believe that 94% would fail to meet standards. Can we see the questions and answers?

I doubt there is an error given that this is playing out across the country. VL sucked, period.

VL is not the problem. Mcps and parents were. Parents screamed about screen time, mental health and all that nonsense so class time was reduced and no homework. You need practice in math. Practice means homework. And, if kids did not participate that is on the parents. Mcps needs to stop listening to parents who are hurting our kids.

Students' *engagement* with VL was the problem. Is this the problem of the kid? Of the parent? Of MCPS? Probably all three.

My dd is now a freshman at an Ivy and was really struggling in her math class this semester. She went to the TA to go over some things and realized there was a huge hole in her knowledge of pre-calculus-- which she took the year they suddenly went online. She claims the teachers truncated the course and never taught some set of the material (that is now relevant in her current course). I'm guessing that the teacher did cover it, but dd wasn't engaged since they had written off grades at that point. My point is that she was a kid who was good at math and had the ambition to learn it, but apparently learned little when they went to VL. Quite possible her own fault, but nevertheless, VL sucked!

Don't assume the worst of your daughter. There was a chart circulating early last year that showed the amount of curriculum that was cut during VL. I don't recall the stat for pre-cal. But for other classes on the list it was up to 40% of curriculum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone addressed the possibility of there being some kind of error in the test or the scoring of it? Even with the pandemic and reduced curriculum, I find it difficult to believe that 94% would fail to meet standards. Can we see the questions and answers?

I doubt there is an error given that this is playing out across the country. VL sucked, period.

VL is not the problem. Mcps and parents were. Parents screamed about screen time, mental health and all that nonsense so class time was reduced and no homework. You need practice in math. Practice means homework. And, if kids did not participate that is on the parents. Mcps needs to stop listening to parents who are hurting our kids.

Students' *engagement* with VL was the problem. Is this the problem of the kid? Of the parent? Of MCPS? Probably all three.

My dd is now a freshman at an Ivy and was really struggling in her math class this semester. She went to the TA to go over some things and realized there was a huge hole in her knowledge of pre-calculus-- which she took the year they suddenly went online. She claims the teachers truncated the course and never taught some set of the material (that is now relevant in her current course). I'm guessing that the teacher did cover it, but dd wasn't engaged since they had written off grades at that point. My point is that she was a kid who was good at math and had the ambition to learn it, but apparently learned little when they went to VL. Quite possible her own fault, but nevertheless, VL sucked!

^ “for this mess” I meant to write.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone addressed the possibility of there being some kind of error in the test or the scoring of it? Even with the pandemic and reduced curriculum, I find it difficult to believe that 94% would fail to meet standards. Can we see the questions and answers?

I doubt there is an error given that this is playing out across the country. VL sucked, period.

VL is not the problem. Mcps and parents were. Parents screamed about screen time, mental health and all that nonsense so class time was reduced and no homework. You need practice in math. Practice means homework. And, if kids did not participate that is on the parents. Mcps needs to stop listening to parents who are hurting our kids.

I agree that this is part of the problem. Not parents, necessarily, but a certain skewed portrayal of society by the media.

MCPS is listening to a certain tranche of "experts" and the media, who need drama to get their clientele/viewership/readership, and who go all in on the students' need for emotional support and STEM enrichment. MCPS, who has always been very politic and PR-oriented, invested in that crap, and this is the result.

I'm a research scientist. I would prefer kids focus on great writing skills and great mathematical skills, instead of distracting themselves with a variety of fluff. Even the K-12 science curriculum contains a lot of fluff. I can't teach undergrads who come in with poor critical thinking skills, yet who tell me they've had genetics, environmental science, anatomy, forensics, etc, in high school. They haven't gotten anything out of those classes, because their foundational mathematics, reading comprehension and writing skills are POOR.

Let's focus on what really matters, people.

This is going to sound troll-ish, but it is a sincere question: aren’t critical thinking skills more easily and naturally developed by NOT having yearly testing like the MCAP? And not having tons of homework? Yes, less actual material will be covered, but if those thinking skills are in place, whatever areas of weakness there are can be made up later. I believe it’s been shown that too homework is harmful to deep understanding and problem solving. You need that downtime to process what you’ve learned. This is why most scientific breakthroughs (eureka moments) occur outside the lab, when scientists are doing something entirely different, like washing dishes. My daughter in 8th grade has way more homework and works harder than I ever did, even in college (and I went to a good college).

So we pile on the content and the homework, with the idea that we will get better outcomes (similar to ramping up production in an industry) and we devise a test to show much our increase in manufacturing has worked, we stress these kids out even further with prepping for this test, then most of them fail, cannot problem solve or think critically on the spot, we have a teen mental health crisis on our hands (which we do), and we blame the kids, the parents, and the teachers or this mess. Maybe it’s time for a new paradigm?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone addressed the possibility of there being some kind of error in the test or the scoring of it? Even with the pandemic and reduced curriculum, I find it difficult to believe that 94% would fail to meet standards. Can we see the questions and answers?

I doubt there is an error given that this is playing out across the country. VL sucked, period.

VL is not the problem. Mcps and parents were. Parents screamed about screen time, mental health and all that nonsense so class time was reduced and no homework. You need practice in math. Practice means homework. And, if kids did not participate that is on the parents. Mcps needs to stop listening to parents who are hurting our kids.

I agree that this is part of the problem. Not parents, necessarily, but a certain skewed portrayal of society by the media.

MCPS is listening to a certain tranche of "experts" and the media, who need drama to get their clientele/viewership/readership, and who go all in on the students' need for emotional support and STEM enrichment. MCPS, who has always been very politic and PR-oriented, invested in that crap, and this is the result.

I'm a research scientist. I would prefer kids focus on great writing skills and great mathematical skills, instead of distracting themselves with a variety of fluff. Even the K-12 science curriculum contains a lot of fluff. I can't teach undergrads who come in with poor critical thinking skills, yet who tell me they've had genetics, environmental science, anatomy, forensics, etc, in high school. They haven't gotten anything out of those classes, because their foundational mathematics, reading comprehension and writing skills are POOR.

Let's focus on what really matters, people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone addressed the possibility of there being some kind of error in the test or the scoring of it? Even with the pandemic and reduced curriculum, I find it difficult to believe that 94% would fail to meet standards. Can we see the questions and answers?

Even levels above Algebra have gaps solely from the point that MCPS reduced the curriculum content. The long term plan to fill in gaps was never planned for. MCPS still isn’t filling in gaps so I (like so many MCPS parents) have a private math tutor for my child.

Most kids don’t have tutors except the rich ones or ones who can get it free.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone addressed the possibility of there being some kind of error in the test or the scoring of it? Even with the pandemic and reduced curriculum, I find it difficult to believe that 94% would fail to meet standards. Can we see the questions and answers?

I doubt there is an error given that this is playing out across the country. VL sucked, period.

VL is not the problem. Mcps and parents were. Parents screamed about screen time, mental health and all that nonsense so class time was reduced and no homework. You need practice in math. Practice means homework. And, if kids did not participate that is on the parents. Mcps needs to stop listening to parents who are hurting our kids.