Anonymous wrote:I’ll be honest, OP. As someone who is constantly trying to avoid the pitfalls of similar trade offs, what gets under my skin about your post is your confidence/certainty. It’s not your choices, per se, but how strong your belief is that this is a better deal for your kids and the rest of us who prioritize the early years are misguided. Do you never feel or express self-doubt about this? You’re always blissfully on the same page as your husband? Your sister may be responding to your lack of vulnerability here. It’s hard to be close to someone who has it all figured out—especially regarding something as complicated and emotional as parenthood

This is so insightful and I think really nails it. Maybe really OP and her sister both have the same negative trait, which is a level of arrogance about their own choices and a tendency to judge others who don't do exactly what they do. They made different choices but have the same personality, which is to believe they are right and anyone who is different is wrong.

Until OP or her sisters is willing to admit that no has 100% figured out parenting, or life, and that each of them have made choices with both upsides and downsides, they are always going to be needlessly competitive about this. You have to give to get. OP's sister sounds rude as hell, but I don't know. If I had a sister who believed I was stupid for making the life choices I'd made, I also might make snide comments about being home with my kids in the evening or having more flexibility or whatever. It is really miserable to be close to someone who thinks you've messed up your life, that the good things about your life are not actually that good, and that the bad things about your life are all your fault. That sounds awful.

Why snark? Can you just have an honest conversation about it all?

You both sound annoying.

Anonymous wrote:She's jealous. I've found that hitting back with snark is the best way to settle snipping.

She says 'I'm so glad we're able to spend time WFHing with hubby now that he has less hours'

You 'Yeah, too bad he sucks as a provider and you're stuck in a rental for the next 10 years. Other than that - congrats!'

NP.

JFC, replies like the one above will only fuel her fire and make her double down on the comments. Sister WANTS an upset or heated reaction from OP so sister can turn and say, "See?! I got to her!"

Why on Earth give her that kind of attention? Snarking back at her is still a form of attention, and that is exactly what sister wants.

OP, of course she's jealous on one level, and on another, feels superior to you as well. The two things can coexist as a pretty toxic stew. She's taking the low road of making comments. Why not take the high road and not meet snark with snark?

Next time she says, for instance, "I'd never spend all those hours away from my kids working, just to afford better clothes" (or whatever), you stop whatever you are doing, turn to her, look her full in the face and say very calmly, "Why would you say that?" In a very neutral tone.

Then keep looking at her and WAIT to show you actually expect a reply. Do this every time. "Why would you say that?" and then silently, clearly waiting for her to reply. No snark. I'd wager she will splutter and hem and haw and say, "Uh, uh, I really meant...." etc. Or she'll just shut the hell up.

"Why would you say that?"
"What do you mean exactly?"
"I'm sorry you feel that way," (A statement, but still, look right at her and wait....)

Anything that is bland and comes across as a real question, like you just don't see her problem. Her problem of course is her need to bash you for your choices. So turn it onto her to have to explain her comments. Do not expect her actually to explain them, OP, and please, don't actually engage her in a discussion becuase it's useless; but the act of halting her in her tracks with a cool, eye-to-eye "Why would you say that?" can really shut people like her up. Unless she is super argumentative, she'll get flustered and go away, or change the topic. Be sure to do this every single time (tiresome as that is for you) and eventually she may stop. You will appear to be the sensible one, and unflappable. And it denies her your anger or upset--which she would love to see.

This approach is as immediately satisfying as snarking back at her, but it absolutely can work if applied repeatedly. I know from experience. And you can feel you are not lowering yourself to her level.

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Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think your sister has a point. Why DO both you and your husband feel the need to have "high paying demanding jobs" while you still have kids around? You say you aren't doing it just for the money, so why, then? Why is it so critically important that you both have "high paying demanding jobs" as your first priority, with family time being second?

Why do you care? And why do you think you deserve an answer to your questions?

Because OP opened the door to the question. That's why. Piss off.

No she didn’t. She asked for ideas on how to handle her sisters comments. Not questions/judgments from a$$holes like you.

Well, my response is that she "handle her sister's comments" but looking inward and thinking about how maybe her sister has a point. And you're not the boss of me. So I can respond however I want.

I guess you neglect your kids too?

"You're not the boss of me". I call 12 year old troll.

Nope, this is the typical SAHM mentality. She's full of bitterness. Nobody respects her and nobody puts any value on her work, so she's looking for validation.

+1 You just get dumber when you are not being challenged on a daily basis, so saying things like "you're not the boss of me" don't strike you as ridiculous.

You guys are ridiculous.

You’re turning this into a strawman argument where the only options are working long hours or being a SAHM. If you read the thread OP AND her sister are both working moms at each other’s throats over the “right” amount of hours. This fight is never ending. Note OP is judging her sister for having to WORK until she’s 65 instead of retiring at 50 and working long hours like OP is doing.

Please stop turning this into a SAHM vs. WOHM debate.

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Anonymous wrote:I find snarky people who are emotionally immature can dish it but they can't take it. You could try calling her out and asking her why she would say that, but my guess is she will just be defensive. We just change the subject, pretend we are deaf to those comments and decrease the time with the person. It's usually not worth engaging with that sort of thing. Take the high road and keep your boundaries.

Given the tone of some of OP’s responses, I’m kind of doubting her innocence in all of this. She may very well be saying passive aggressive incendiary things to her sister while OP tells herself that she has THE. BEST. PLAN. EVER. This probably isn’t WOH/SAH, but a long, slow brew provocative relationship. I’m willing to bet these two exchange subtle digs not infrequently.

IMO, I haven't met a family with 2 sisters without drama and I'm old. I grew up with 3 brothers, no sisters and we had zero drama. With sisters, it's always who is the prettier one, who married better, who is thinner etc.

Anonymous wrote:My sister regularly makes comments about how she'd NEVER sacrifice the family time etc for her or her husband to have the demanding / high income jobs my husband and I have. Things like "well i'd NEVER want to not be the one waiting for my kids when they get home from school" or "I'd never want my husband to regularly miss dinner". She acts like we're making these tradeoffs just to buy fancy clothes (we don't) or some other silly materialistic reason

Yet she also makes kind of rueful "must be nice" comments about all the actual upside of our choices (long vacations without having to penny pinch on them in ways that add stress, my potentially leaving the workforce for a few years, both of our retiring by 50, ability to afford housing close to our offices to not have long commutes etc)

I make absolutely no judgments about her choices, i'm happy she's living the life she wanted to, but the next time she makes some "must be nice" type comment I kind of just want to bluntly say back "yeah...it will be nice to retire at 50, thats why we're putting in the hours now. i'd NEVER make the choice to have to grind at an unfulfilling job until 65+ when I could work harder now and spend 15 more good years traveling, volunteering, spending lots of time with my kids, and whatever else I feel like doing"

I should just keep my mouth shut though......right?

So you’d rather miss out on your kid’s childhoods so you can be free to live your life in retirement without them as they will be entering college and living their own life by the time you are 50? - Sister’s rebuttal

FWIW, DH and I are in the same position versus family members and we just ignore and continue on with our lives.

Anonymous wrote:My sister regularly makes comments about how she'd NEVER sacrifice the family time etc for her or her husband to have the demanding / high income jobs my husband and I have. Things like "well i'd NEVER want to not be the one waiting for my kids when they get home from school" or "I'd never want my husband to regularly miss dinner". She acts like we're making these tradeoffs just to buy fancy clothes (we don't) or some other silly materialistic reason

Yet she also makes kind of rueful "must be nice" comments about all the actual upside of our choices (long vacations without having to penny pinch on them in ways that add stress, my potentially leaving the workforce for a few years, both of our retiring by 50, ability to afford housing close to our offices to not have long commutes etc)

I make absolutely no judgments about her choices, i'm happy she's living the life she wanted to, but the next time she makes some "must be nice" type comment I kind of just want to bluntly say back "yeah...it will be nice to retire at 50, thats why we're putting in the hours now. i'd NEVER make the choice to have to grind at an unfulfilling job until 65+ when I could work harder now and spend 15 more good years traveling, volunteering, spending lots of time with my kids, and whatever else I feel like doing"

I should just keep my mouth shut though......right?

Umm that is an extreme overreaction to “must be nice”

I say this kindly, but are you okay OP?

Anonymous wrote:I find snarky people who are emotionally immature can dish it but they can't take it. You could try calling her out and asking her why she would say that, but my guess is she will just be defensive. We just change the subject, pretend we are deaf to those comments and decrease the time with the person. It's usually not worth engaging with that sort of thing. Take the high road and keep your boundaries.

Given the tone of some of OP’s responses, I’m kind of doubting her innocence in all of this. She may very well be saying passive aggressive incendiary things to her sister while OP tells herself that she has THE. BEST. PLAN. EVER. This probably isn’t WOH/SAH, but a long, slow brew provocative relationship. I’m willing to bet these two exchange subtle digs not infrequently.

Anonymous wrote:I’ll be honest, OP. As someone who is constantly trying to avoid the pitfalls of similar trade offs, what gets under my skin about your post is your confidence/certainty. It’s not your choices, per se, but how strong your belief is that this is a better deal for your kids and the rest of us who prioritize the early years are misguided. Do you never feel or express self-doubt about this? You’re always blissfully on the same page as your husband? Your sister may be responding to your lack of vulnerability here. It’s hard to be close to someone who has it all figured out—especially regarding something as complicated and emotional as parenthood

I’m pretty certain about my choice to work and frankly none of my mom friends question it either. The trade off is not always work 80 hrs/wk vs SAH. And now that my kids are late ES/MS, I definitely don’t regret it.

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Anonymous wrote:Personally, I think your sister has a point. Why DO both you and your husband feel the need to have "high paying demanding jobs" while you still have kids around? You say you aren't doing it just for the money, so why, then? Why is it so critically important that you both have "high paying demanding jobs" as your first priority, with family time being second?

Some people like to set themselves up for success and provide for their families. Some people are content with working until they're 70, being renters their whole life, and hoping their kids student loans aren't too high. Different strokes.

That's all well and good, but you don't need two parents to both have "high paying demanding jobs" while kids are still young in order to do that.

We didn't.

Good for you. In this area - most people do. On my street a normal 3,000 sqft home is $1.7M. The entire street is young parents in their 30s to 40s with kids between newborn to 8/10. To afford that you need a household income of at least $400K. Preferably higher and that's not even considering the costs of nannies, daycares, and/or private education. So you need to be strivers. If you live somewhere that's not the case, good for you. If only one of your partners makes $400K by themselves, also good for you. That's rare. We do what we have to have the lifestyle and opportunities we desire for our kids.

You don't desire it for your kids. You desire it for yourself, and often it comes at your kids' expense. You just can't or won't see it.

Okay? That's your belief. I had my firstborn(s) within 4 months of my friend. I've been able to afford a live-in nanny, doula services, and pre-registered for a private pre-K with educational services for my twins. The friend had to beg her husband to shuffle around income for a part-time nanny 3 times a week and he's still not home as often as she likes because he's the main source of income. Their commute is now an hour each way (on days she's not WFH) and mine has stayed 15 minutes. I can afford to take my child on trips for educational enrichiment abroad and get intensive language tutors when needed. She can't.

Those things are not at my kids' expense, they are providing my children for a better, more well-rounded future. In addition to the personal time I spend caring for and with them. If I was earning the money just for myself I'd spend the $30,000 a year I've allocated beyond the nanny expenses on a Berkin.

And that isn't even including housing. If my friend is spending $40,000 a year on rent and I'm spending that equivalent+ on a mortgage with appreciation baked in every year - who's coming out ahead? Me. Because I planned and made it happen.

You sound like a really great friend.

Ask your sister directly why she is making those snarky comments. You both have different things that make you happy but she should be kind and so should you.

I find snarky people who are emotionally immature can dish it but they can't take it. You could try calling her out and asking her why she would say that, but my guess is she will just be defensive. We just change the subject, pretend we are deaf to those comments and decrease the time with the person. It's usually not worth engaging with that sort of thing. Take the high road and keep your boundaries.

To "must be nice" say "yeah, it is nice." Take her snark at face value.

To "I would never..." say "different strokes for different folks" or "People are different" or whatever.

If it's starting to bother you AND you have a close relationship with your sister, in response to an "I would never" you could try a "that's a hurtful thing to say" and then just let it hang there.

Honestly if you are confident and secure in your choices, you should ignore your sister…unless she is hitting a nerve. It’s no different from the judgy sister (or other moms) going on and on about making organic baby food, wood toys, no day care etc… Who cares! Just say, yes everything in life has trade offs and move on.