Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 20:37     Subject: DS Freaking Out
I think this is why my DD and her friends (at public school) don’t seem to talk at all about applying to college. They know it isn’t anybody else’s business and that they shouldn’t compare themselves to others. Seriously, I’m a bit shocked my daughter doesn’t even know where her friends are applying to college but that’s also kind of awesome.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 20:21     Subject: DS Freaking Out
I am OP and there may be some truth to DS feeling like he had the slight edge with higher grades and SAT and he felt like that had slipped away. We talked about that some and he said the friend asked him about his grades and test scores and he shared, so he “had all the information on the table.”

I pointed out how the friend didn’t have to tell him, especially because the parents asked him not to and maybe the friend wanted to tell him all along.

He seems calmer now.

As for applying to the same schools, many of the kids from their school did. The difference in their lists were in safety schools.

He’s processing it all and have been talking to his friend on discord, he said.

Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 18:43     Subject: Re:DS Freaking Out
Yeah, as far as hard feelings towards the friend, remind DS that his friend’s parents swore their son to secrecy and eventually he told your son anyway. Presumably their friendship has been through a lot, and hopefully you son can get past this with his friend. Sometimes kids can’t be responsible for their parents and the difficult situations they create for their kids.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 18:39     Subject: DS Freaking Out
Tell your son to be thankful he gets to go to an exclusive private school that 95% of the families in this country can’t afford. He can think about the public school schleppers who are left to their own devices to do all their applications. I can see why he finds that information so upsetting because it upsets me that people like you get college counseling at school that puts you at a distinct advantage over my kids.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 18:31     Subject: DS Freaking Out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is OP. You are misreading the post. I am not freaking out. DS is. I am just trying to figure out how to explain things to him in a way that is as accurate as possible. I don’t know if connections help the way the used to. I know this is the way of the world.

Yes it is mainly that his best friend spilled this after the process. They’d talked about how fun it would be to go to the same school, etc. all along and then my DA felt sort of blindsided. I explained he was under no obligation to say anything and he said he wished he didn’t know.

Keep in mind as others have said he is a teenager and their brains fire up in different ways.

My first response was to be proud for working hard and getting good grades and SAT score and focus only on himself. That he in the end will have greater confidence in himself.

But he is still upset and feels like he was “played.” He said he wouldn’t have applied to so many of the same schools if he’d known. We talked about how he needs to focus on the future.

My question was about how much those connections really work these days and if I can honestly tell my kids, “things have changed and those connections don’t help as much as they did pre-Varsity Blues” vs “sorry, kiddo.”


This is the part I do not understand. I am new to this entire process and even I understand simple probability.

OP, why would your child and his friend, both attending the same school, apply to so many of the same schools? Yes, I see that you explain that they thought it would be fun to go to college together but attending college is not like attending summer camp. Simple probability tells you that many colleges do not often take multiple kids from the same school, especially when that school is not one of the huge public kind. All this to say, if your son's friend's expensive college counselor did not advise the friend about this simple strategy that I thought most knew, then I'd not worry to much about the benefit of this wonder counselor.


Yes, I was wondering the same thing. And, why is your son so upset that his friend hired a counselor? You suggest that he felt blindsided as if the friend now has an advantage, but is that because, knowing they were applying to the same schools, your son possibly mistook his own advantage (better grades/SAT) for a level playing field? Is it possible he felt it was fair when he had a slight advantage? I am not trying to be cheeky. Teens have limited perspective! But, that might be worth exploring. And, like other posters said, there are all sorts of reasons for selecting students. Just because the friend got a pricey counselor, it doesn't mean that this is the end for your kid. Hopefully, he has a good range of schools, worked really hard to demonstrate interest where needed and did his best with his app. I'm sure he'll have options! As for the friendship, he shouldn't feel duped. People access the advantages that resources give them. My kids took magnet admissions tests against other kids whose parents dolled out tons of money for test prep. No one would say anything, but they saw the prep books tucked in among school books. We couldn't afford that. My kids still got in. The paid prepping and enrichment in our sphere is frustrating at times but not a betrayal. Your kid has got some serious advantages w/ his top 3 education/status and his grades/scores. Remind him of all he's got going for him and that people will typically take the advantage when and where they can. Besides, his friend's parents probably organized it all.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 18:00     Subject: DS Freaking Out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Explain to your son what college counseling looks like for his friends attending public schools.


Right? My son went to public school and his guidance counselor tried to tell him to apply only to Rutgers "although you probably won't get in." My son told her, "I hate New Jersey." She just shrugged and ushered him out of her office. That was the extent of his college counseling.


OMG! My college counselor explained that I really should be paying more attention to local secretarial certificate opportunities even though I had all As in top track college classes, a couple of language awards, etc. It was totally profiling me based on her having my older brother, who had been enrolled in voc-ed and was enrolled in a 2 year AA degree.

PP, what happened with your DS? The "I hate New Jersey" quip deserves an SNL skit.



Funny! I got flight attendant training information. I'm glad I didn't listen.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 16:59     Subject: DS Freaking Out
Anonymous wrote:This is OP. You are misreading the post. I am not freaking out. DS is. I am just trying to figure out how to explain things to him in a way that is as accurate as possible. I don’t know if connections help the way the used to. I know this is the way of the world.

Yes it is mainly that his best friend spilled this after the process. They’d talked about how fun it would be to go to the same school, etc. all along and then my DA felt sort of blindsided. I explained he was under no obligation to say anything and he said he wished he didn’t know.

Keep in mind as others have said he is a teenager and their brains fire up in different ways.

My first response was to be proud for working hard and getting good grades and SAT score and focus only on himself. That he in the end will have greater confidence in himself.

But he is still upset and feels like he was “played.” He said he wouldn’t have applied to so many of the same schools if he’d known. We talked about how he needs to focus on the future.

My question was about how much those connections really work these days and if I can honestly tell my kids, “things have changed and those connections don’t help as much as they did pre-Varsity Blues” vs “sorry, kiddo.”


This is the part I do not understand. I am new to this entire process and even I understand simple probability.

OP, why would your child and his friend, both attending the same school, apply to so many of the same schools? Yes, I see that you explain that they thought it would be fun to go to college together but attending college is not like attending summer camp. Simple probability tells you that many colleges do not often take multiple kids from the same school, especially when that school is not one of the huge public kind. All this to say, if your son's friend's expensive college counselor did not advise the friend about this simple strategy that I thought most knew, then I'd not worry to much about the benefit of this wonder counselor.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 16:54     Subject: Re:DS Freaking Out
Anonymous wrote:I feel more proud of my kid who went to a plain old public school and was admitted to a top tier school on her own.
More chance for her to be successful in college and life.



Has anyone followed up with Big 3 students to see where they are in 25 years. I don't think they are as successful as parents want to believe.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 16:49     Subject: DS Freaking Out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:“Sometimes it doesn’t feel good when other people have things you wish you could have.”


Actually, "it always sucks when you learn your friend has been lying to you for over a year about something you thought you were sharing in common."


The OP didn’t mention anything about the friend lying.


Come on. They applied to the same schools, they clearly talk about applying, and he never mentioned this. OP's kid just found out his friend has had a thumb on the scale all along. Lying by omission.


My DD has been accepted ED so having just gone through this I want to advise parents of Juniors and beyond to tell your child to try to not talk about the schools that are on their list. It is hard especially with social media but I advised my DD and she seemed to follow. It just makes the process simpler when your kid is quiet about things. And no hurt feelings too.


Exactly. I heard this advice at a CTCL talk (which was very valuable). It tones down the competition and social anxiety over whether your list "measures up."


Big 3 kids don't go to silly little CTCL schools. Sorry.


Well, wherever you went to school, they should have emphasized reading more. The prior poster's point was the advice, not its source.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 16:45     Subject: Re:DS Freaking Out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I feel more proud of my kid who went to a plain old public school and was admitted to a top tier school on her own.
More chance for her to be successful in college and life.


You don't sound any better when you act this way either.


+1
post is a bad look
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 16:42     Subject: DS Freaking Out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:“Sometimes it doesn’t feel good when other people have things you wish you could have.”


Actually, "it always sucks when you learn your friend has been lying to you for over a year about something you thought you were sharing in common."


The OP didn’t mention anything about the friend lying.


Come on. They applied to the same schools, they clearly talk about applying, and he never mentioned this. OP's kid just found out his friend has had a thumb on the scale all along. Lying by omission.


My DD has been accepted ED so having just gone through this I want to advise parents of Juniors and beyond to tell your child to try to not talk about the schools that are on their list. It is hard especially with social media but I advised my DD and she seemed to follow. It just makes the process simpler when your kid is quiet about things. And no hurt feelings too.


Exactly. I heard this advice at a CTCL talk (which was very valuable). It tones down the competition and social anxiety over whether your list "measures up."


Big 3 kids don't go to silly little CTCL schools. Sorry.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 16:29     Subject: DS Freaking Out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:“Sometimes it doesn’t feel good when other people have things you wish you could have.”


Actually, "it always sucks when you learn your friend has been lying to you for over a year about something you thought you were sharing in common."


The OP didn’t mention anything about the friend lying.


Come on. They applied to the same schools, they clearly talk about applying, and he never mentioned this. OP's kid just found out his friend has had a thumb on the scale all along. Lying by omission.


My DD has been accepted ED so having just gone through this I want to advise parents of Juniors and beyond to tell your child to try to not talk about the schools that are on their list. It is hard especially with social media but I advised my DD and she seemed to follow. It just makes the process simpler when your kid is quiet about things. And no hurt feelings too.


Exactly. I heard this advice at a CTCL talk (which was very valuable). It tones down the competition and social anxiety over whether your list "measures up."
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 16:25     Subject: DS Freaking Out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is OP. You are misreading the post. I am not freaking out. DS is. I am just trying to figure out how to explain things to him in a way that is as accurate as possible. I don’t know if connections help the way the used to. I know this is the way of the world.

Yes it is mainly that his best friend spilled this after the process. They’d talked about how fun it would be to go to the same school, etc. all along and then my DA felt sort of blindsided. I explained he was under no obligation to say anything and he said he wished he didn’t know.

Keep in mind as others have said he is a teenager and their brains fire up in different ways.

My first response was to be proud for working hard and getting good grades and SAT score and focus only on himself. That he in the end will have greater confidence in himself.

But he is still upset and feels like he was “played.” He said he wouldn’t have applied to so many of the same schools if he’d known. We talked about how he needs to focus on the future.

My question was about how much those connections really work these days and if I can honestly tell my kids, “things have changed and those connections don’t help as much as they did pre-Varsity Blues” vs “sorry, kiddo.”


OP, you are right to ignore the crazy responses and yes, he is a teenager.

As to the bolded question, here is what I can tell you based on very close relationships I have with senior development officers at a couple elite colleges and conversations I have had with them: The bottom line is that it is now much more difficult to buy or influence your way in to a school where the family does not already have a relationship and where the family has not been making large donations for a long time. Connections and influence like that don't help as much as they did pre-Varsity Blues.

Are there exceptions for a small handful of prominent extremely wealthy families and their kids? Sure. But post-Varsity Blues (and the Harvard admissions trial), the barrier between development and admissions has gone up a lot. Today, at pretty much every elite college, development officers are not allowed to communicate with admissions about particular applicants, which was not always the case. They can identify a file as a development case, and that's pretty much it (and it's going to be a rare case that that will happen where the family is not already giving). And all of them are also terrified of a hypothetical lawsuit and discovery (see Harvard trial) that would make them look bad or be embarrassing individually and for the institution, so they do adhere to this pretty carefully. Now, does it ever still happen that there might be a specific applicant where the VP for Development, or even the President, talks to the admissions director? Sure. But that's going to be a very small number of instances, especially when the family hasn't already been giving to the college.


Varsity Blues does not seem like the appropriate analogy whatsoever...I honestly do not know what is.

In Varsity Blues they were photoshopping heads onto rower's bodies, taking fake pictures of kids on an Erg machine, manufacturing Soccer awards/rankings when the kid did not even play soccer, etc. All with the full cooperation of the Yale Soccer coach, Georgetown Tennis coach, Stanford sailing coach, who were taking bribes to then vouch to administration that the kids were in fact star, recruitable athletes. Additionally, they were paying doctors to write fake notes that a kid needed extra SAT/ACT time (honestly, stop giving anyone extra time...the process is so flawed and manipulated), paying ACT/SAT Test proctors to look the other way while a paid test taker was taking the test for them.

This was manipulation on a grand scale,


PP here. That's fine, and you are right as far as the analogy. The proper analogies are more along the lines of Boesky, Kushner, Bass and others...wealthy families who, it has been reported over the years, bought their kids into colleges where they had no legacy connection.

But the development officers talk about and refer to Varsity Blues and how things are--allegedly--different now. Their words, not mine.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 16:19     Subject: DS Freaking Out
At the end of the day, each applicant will only go to one school. Sure, connections help - but everyone I've seen with connections focuses on one school to maximize impact, usually through ED.

Tell your kid to focus on his own journey. You don't even know if the expensive college counselor helped. This is a nerve-wracking time for kids; reinforce to him that he will get in somewhere good and that's where his focus needs to be.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2022 16:17     Subject: DS Freaking Out
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:“Sometimes it doesn’t feel good when other people have things you wish you could have.”


Actually, "it always sucks when you learn your friend has been lying to you for over a year about something you thought you were sharing in common."


The OP didn’t mention anything about the friend lying.


Come on. They applied to the same schools, they clearly talk about applying, and he never mentioned this. OP's kid just found out his friend has had a thumb on the scale all along. Lying by omission.


My DD has been accepted ED so having just gone through this I want to advise parents of Juniors and beyond to tell your child to try to not talk about the schools that are on their list. It is hard especially with social media but I advised my DD and she seemed to follow. It just makes the process simpler when your kid is quiet about things. And no hurt feelings too.