I know my little one is delay in speech right before covid started March 2020. Due to covid, I have been ignoring signs of speech delay & pediatricians recommendation to seek help from early intervention the whole time. Fast forward now, my kid still has speech delay, but it got to the point that I had to give in & had done something because I realize covid is not going away anytime soon, could stay here in 2023-2025 😞

We are covid cautious family, and I feel so terrible with the whole covid situation impacting my kid's development because of our choice. We finally enrolled my little one in daycare a few months ago in person, started early intervention & private speech evaluation process. She has made some progress in speech from daycare, early intervention is a joke/useless, and we are expecting private speech therapy to kick in once there is availabilities. Teachers are masked DOES hinder kid learning speech because I am told that my kid needs to be evaluated for articulation.

I still don't regret sending her to daycare even though I wish there is no covid and teachers /kids do not need to be masked.

My son started back up at daycare at 2 after being home with us for a year and his language exploded in a good way. He had a big vocabulary but used a lot of his own words for things that my husband and I understood but not anyone else (like he'd say "boo" for "more"). While we tried to reinforce pronunciation think he didn't feel the pressure to correct because he knew we understood him. Daycare (with masked caregivers) was good for my kid's language, at least starting at age 2.

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Anonymous wrote:Sorry, the children most at risk from covid are ages 0-4. I would take a minor speech delay over this any day.

My child had a speech delay 15 years ago. He didn't speak till he was 2.5. Not only did he "survive," he thrived. He is on the debate team and Model UN now.

People acting like speech delays are worse than illness remind me of the folks who don't vaccinate because they are afraid of autism. Nonsensical and offensive.

2.5 years old isn't even that late for talking. My 4 year old barely talks.

And yes, I absolutely think the risk of various developmental delays tied to COVID restrictions is worse for young kids than COVID itself. Not the least because those restrictions aren't even going to be effective in preventing infections- they're just slowing down how quickly they occur. Regardless, the severity of COVID cases in kids is roughly the same as the severity of the flu in kids. Yet the policies act like it is much, much worse.

How is it tied to covid? Are you getting speech therapy? Do you realize that many of us had kids who didn't talk till after four before covid?

It’s also been documented that children’s IQ has dropped since covid.

IQ is something you are born with. And, IQ has nothing to do with language delays as my child had a serious language issues and a very high IQ.

Was your child born with a serious language issue?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, the children most at risk from covid are ages 0-4. I would take a minor speech delay over this any day.

My child had a speech delay 15 years ago. He didn't speak till he was 2.5. Not only did he "survive," he thrived. He is on the debate team and Model UN now.

People acting like speech delays are worse than illness remind me of the folks who don't vaccinate because they are afraid of autism. Nonsensical and offensive.

2.5 years old isn't even that late for talking. My 4 year old barely talks.

And yes, I absolutely think the risk of various developmental delays tied to COVID restrictions is worse for young kids than COVID itself. Not the least because those restrictions aren't even going to be effective in preventing infections- they're just slowing down how quickly they occur. Regardless, the severity of COVID cases in kids is roughly the same as the severity of the flu in kids. Yet the policies act like it is much, much worse.

How is it tied to covid? Are you getting speech therapy? Do you realize that many of us had kids who didn't talk till after four before covid?

It’s also been documented that children’s IQ has dropped since covid.

IQ is something you are born with. And, IQ has nothing to do with language delays as my child had a serious language issues and a very high IQ.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, the children most at risk from covid are ages 0-4. I would take a minor speech delay over this any day.

My child had a speech delay 15 years ago. He didn't speak till he was 2.5. Not only did he "survive," he thrived. He is on the debate team and Model UN now.

People acting like speech delays are worse than illness remind me of the folks who don't vaccinate because they are afraid of autism. Nonsensical and offensive.

2.5 years old isn't even that late for talking. My 4 year old barely talks.

And yes, I absolutely think the risk of various developmental delays tied to COVID restrictions is worse for young kids than COVID itself. Not the least because those restrictions aren't even going to be effective in preventing infections- they're just slowing down how quickly they occur. Regardless, the severity of COVID cases in kids is roughly the same as the severity of the flu in kids. Yet the policies act like it is much, much worse.

How is it tied to covid? Are you getting speech therapy? Do you realize that many of us had kids who didn't talk till after four before covid?

It’s also been documented that children’s IQ has dropped since covid.

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Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand why people are jumping to dismiss this possibility. You are masking two year olds without any clear data that it is reducing cases in daycares, so why are you so quick to dismiss other concerns without concrete data.

It makes me really sad that if you even raise the topic of masking two year olds, you’re jumped all over as a dramatic, terrible parent. Parents seeking assistance for speech- delayed toddlers has risen during the pandemic. That is a fact. Jury is still out on what is causing it (masks, isolation, attachment parenting, whatever). Why are you dismissing masks in daycare as one possible cause for some children? Because it’s easy to dismiss these kids when its not you kid?

Parents may just have more time to deal with it. I know many families that just ignored it to hope their kids caught up. Others even delayed school a year vs getting them help.

School and daycare closures make this more possible.

I think anyone faced with this decision needs to factor in that if you're not sending your child to daycare and you're not socializing in person much, is your child only interacting with their parents or nanny? That's not normal. A daycare with masked caregivers is probably better than no socialization at all. If the nanny can do playgroups that's different.

It's actually pretty normal. Playgrounds are a recent phenomenon.

The amount of spam this Melanie person has been doing on different listerves is raising a lot of alarm bells for me. There's a petition she's circulating to *demand* that various jurisdictions take away the rights of daycare workers to be masked at work. Obviously, such a demand is completely unenforceable as well as being absurd... But it's the scope of her extremism that makes me suspect there's no Melanie behind this at all. Just another bot argument, meant to sow division.

I don't know, I think there is a real need for advocacy on behalf of daycare/preschool parents, and I appreciate the effort. I completely disagree with changing masking requirements for caregivers - those should be at the discretion of the individual or the daycare center, if not required by public health agencies. But making masks on the under 5 crowd optional (maybe after this surge dies down) seems like something of a no-brainer. using Test to Stay also seems sensible.

Who is advocating for changing mask requirements for caregivers? All I see is stuff about making masks optional for kids.

The PP before me accuses the petition of doing so. It does not. It does talk about "developmental harms", and this thread here is about harms from masked caregivers. There is arguably (but really no data either way!) more harm from masked caregivers, but it is unreasonable to argue for them to be unmasked at this stage of things (unless they and public health wants them to be).

Anyway, just trying to say I'm happy there are people like melanie advocating for daycare kids. I'm more interested in test to stay, with off ramps for masks after omicron wave, but really, just want public health to be thinking about the <5s.

"There is arguably more harm from masked caregivers...."

What the petition does is open a door, I think quite deliberately, to an anti-mask mandate. Rather cold-bloodedly, children are just the excuse. It reminds me a lot of the reopening people last year, who also used the spectre of their kids and their speech delays to advocate for complete school reopening. (Funny, how it's the same argument, isn't it?)

You'll notice that every time, in every thread (and Melanie has been busy, there are a lot of them) that this issue of kids and their speech delays are raised, she says things like, "I'm not saying caregivers shouldn't be masked although of course the research..." or, "if you wanted to make that argument that would be your choice, and it is true that.... " Within such circular arguments, she dances like the cleverly trained seal she is.

Is it terrible for kids in daycare, this COVID? Yes. Also terrible for their caregivers who don't have health insurance, are often mothers themselves, or who live in multigenerational families. It wasn't great for these working families who send their kids to daycare before covid, either. Nothing like working a nine hour day, spending a mortgage payment on daycare, and never seeing your kid. I mean, literally, in most of the world, there is nothing like it... although I've known a lot of nannies from Nepal and the Philippines whose kids are still back there who do have it worse.

But this isn't a contest.

I wouldn't be involved but the sheer amount of spam I've seen about this "petition" in the last week has alarmed me and my kids are past the daycare age, so I'm not sure why I'm seeing it at all... Except it's everywhere. And not in a grassroots wag, although that's the obvious intent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, the children most at risk from covid are ages 0-4. I would take a minor speech delay over this any day.

My child had a speech delay 15 years ago. He didn't speak till he was 2.5. Not only did he "survive," he thrived. He is on the debate team and Model UN now.

People acting like speech delays are worse than illness remind me of the folks who don't vaccinate because they are afraid of autism. Nonsensical and offensive.

2.5 years old isn't even that late for talking. My 4 year old barely talks.

And yes, I absolutely think the risk of various developmental delays tied to COVID restrictions is worse for young kids than COVID itself. Not the least because those restrictions aren't even going to be effective in preventing infections- they're just slowing down how quickly they occur. Regardless, the severity of COVID cases in kids is roughly the same as the severity of the flu in kids. Yet the policies act like it is much, much worse.

How is it tied to covid? Are you getting speech therapy? Do you realize that many of us had kids who didn't talk till after four before covid?

Melanie does not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, the children most at risk from covid are ages 0-4. I would take a minor speech delay over this any day.

My child had a speech delay 15 years ago. He didn't speak till he was 2.5. Not only did he "survive," he thrived. He is on the debate team and Model UN now.

People acting like speech delays are worse than illness remind me of the folks who don't vaccinate because they are afraid of autism. Nonsensical and offensive.

2.5 years old isn't even that late for talking. My 4 year old barely talks.

And yes, I absolutely think the risk of various developmental delays tied to COVID restrictions is worse for young kids than COVID itself. Not the least because those restrictions aren't even going to be effective in preventing infections- they're just slowing down how quickly they occur. Regardless, the severity of COVID cases in kids is roughly the same as the severity of the flu in kids. Yet the policies act like it is much, much worse.

How is it tied to covid? Are you getting speech therapy? Do you realize that many of us had kids who didn't talk till after four before covid?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand why people are jumping to dismiss this possibility. You are masking two year olds without any clear data that it is reducing cases in daycares, so why are you so quick to dismiss other concerns without concrete data.

It makes me really sad that if you even raise the topic of masking two year olds, you’re jumped all over as a dramatic, terrible parent. Parents seeking assistance for speech- delayed toddlers has risen during the pandemic. That is a fact. Jury is still out on what is causing it (masks, isolation, attachment parenting, whatever). Why are you dismissing masks in daycare as one possible cause for some children? Because it’s easy to dismiss these kids when its not you kid?

Parents may just have more time to deal with it. I know many families that just ignored it to hope their kids caught up. Others even delayed school a year vs getting them help.

School and daycare closures make this more possible.

I think anyone faced with this decision needs to factor in that if you're not sending your child to daycare and you're not socializing in person much, is your child only interacting with their parents or nanny? That's not normal. A daycare with masked caregivers is probably better than no socialization at all. If the nanny can do playgroups that's different.

We aren't socializing that much and my child has a language disorder. I can tell you masking and lack of socializing didn't cause it as it started long before covid.

That doesn't mean COVID policies didn't change the trajectory of development compared to if those policies were not in place.

These all happened pre-covid.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand why people are jumping to dismiss this possibility. You are masking two year olds without any clear data that it is reducing cases in daycares, so why are you so quick to dismiss other concerns without concrete data.

It makes me really sad that if you even raise the topic of masking two year olds, you’re jumped all over as a dramatic, terrible parent. Parents seeking assistance for speech- delayed toddlers has risen during the pandemic. That is a fact. Jury is still out on what is causing it (masks, isolation, attachment parenting, whatever). Why are you dismissing masks in daycare as one possible cause for some children? Because it’s easy to dismiss these kids when its not you kid?

Parents may just have more time to deal with it. I know many families that just ignored it to hope their kids caught up. Others even delayed school a year vs getting them help.

School and daycare closures make this more possible.

I think anyone faced with this decision needs to factor in that if you're not sending your child to daycare and you're not socializing in person much, is your child only interacting with their parents or nanny? That's not normal. A daycare with masked caregivers is probably better than no socialization at all. If the nanny can do playgroups that's different.

It's actually pretty normal. Playgrounds are a recent phenomenon.

The amount of spam this Melanie person has been doing on different listerves is raising a lot of alarm bells for me. There's a petition she's circulating to *demand* that various jurisdictions take away the rights of daycare workers to be masked at work. Obviously, such a demand is completely unenforceable as well as being absurd... But it's the scope of her extremism that makes me suspect there's no Melanie behind this at all. Just another bot argument, meant to sow division.

I don't know, I think there is a real need for advocacy on behalf of daycare/preschool parents, and I appreciate the effort. I completely disagree with changing masking requirements for caregivers - those should be at the discretion of the individual or the daycare center, if not required by public health agencies. But making masks on the under 5 crowd optional (maybe after this surge dies down) seems like something of a no-brainer. using Test to Stay also seems sensible.

Who is advocating for changing mask requirements for caregivers? All I see is stuff about making masks optional for kids.

The PP before me accuses the petition of doing so. It does not. It does talk about "developmental harms", and this thread here is about harms from masked caregivers. There is arguably (but really no data either way!) more harm from masked caregivers, but it is unreasonable to argue for them to be unmasked at this stage of things (unless they and public health wants them to be).

Anyway, just trying to say I'm happy there are people like melanie advocating for daycare kids. I'm more interested in test to stay, with off ramps for masks after omicron wave, but really, just want public health to be thinking about the <5s.

Day care kids are not vaccinated and high risk of covid. Very irresponsible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand why people are jumping to dismiss this possibility. You are masking two year olds without any clear data that it is reducing cases in daycares, so why are you so quick to dismiss other concerns without concrete data.

It makes me really sad that if you even raise the topic of masking two year olds, you’re jumped all over as a dramatic, terrible parent. Parents seeking assistance for speech- delayed toddlers has risen during the pandemic. That is a fact. Jury is still out on what is causing it (masks, isolation, attachment parenting, whatever). Why are you dismissing masks in daycare as one possible cause for some children? Because it’s easy to dismiss these kids when its not you kid?

Parents may just have more time to deal with it. I know many families that just ignored it to hope their kids caught up. Others even delayed school a year vs getting them help.

School and daycare closures make this more possible.

I think anyone faced with this decision needs to factor in that if you're not sending your child to daycare and you're not socializing in person much, is your child only interacting with their parents or nanny? That's not normal. A daycare with masked caregivers is probably better than no socialization at all. If the nanny can do playgroups that's different.

It's actually pretty normal. Playgrounds are a recent phenomenon.

The amount of spam this Melanie person has been doing on different listerves is raising a lot of alarm bells for me. There's a petition she's circulating to *demand* that various jurisdictions take away the rights of daycare workers to be masked at work. Obviously, such a demand is completely unenforceable as well as being absurd... But it's the scope of her extremism that makes me suspect there's no Melanie behind this at all. Just another bot argument, meant to sow division.

I don't know, I think there is a real need for advocacy on behalf of daycare/preschool parents, and I appreciate the effort. I completely disagree with changing masking requirements for caregivers - those should be at the discretion of the individual or the daycare center, if not required by public health agencies. But making masks on the under 5 crowd optional (maybe after this surge dies down) seems like something of a no-brainer. using Test to Stay also seems sensible.

Who is advocating for changing mask requirements for caregivers? All I see is stuff about making masks optional for kids.

The PP before me accuses the petition of doing so. It does not. It does talk about "developmental harms", and this thread here is about harms from masked caregivers. There is arguably (but really no data either way!) more harm from masked caregivers, but it is unreasonable to argue for them to be unmasked at this stage of things (unless they and public health wants them to be).

Anyway, just trying to say I'm happy there are people like melanie advocating for daycare kids. I'm more interested in test to stay, with off ramps for masks after omicron wave, but really, just want public health to be thinking about the <5s.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand why people are jumping to dismiss this possibility. You are masking two year olds without any clear data that it is reducing cases in daycares, so why are you so quick to dismiss other concerns without concrete data.

It makes me really sad that if you even raise the topic of masking two year olds, you’re jumped all over as a dramatic, terrible parent. Parents seeking assistance for speech- delayed toddlers has risen during the pandemic. That is a fact. Jury is still out on what is causing it (masks, isolation, attachment parenting, whatever). Why are you dismissing masks in daycare as one possible cause for some children? Because it’s easy to dismiss these kids when its not you kid?

Parents may just have more time to deal with it. I know many families that just ignored it to hope their kids caught up. Others even delayed school a year vs getting them help.

School and daycare closures make this more possible.

I think anyone faced with this decision needs to factor in that if you're not sending your child to daycare and you're not socializing in person much, is your child only interacting with their parents or nanny? That's not normal. A daycare with masked caregivers is probably better than no socialization at all. If the nanny can do playgroups that's different.

We aren't socializing that much and my child has a language disorder. I can tell you masking and lack of socializing didn't cause it as it started long before covid.

That doesn't mean COVID policies didn't change the trajectory of development compared to if those policies were not in place.