Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP had me until, "And that it takes them 5+ years in biglaw to get the same level of responsibility that we give to first year honors attorneys at my agency." I doubt that is true. It certainly is not at my agency. OP should also realize that what she does is not all that unique. In my experience, I know I can train anyone, so academic credentials are important to me.

It's true at my agency. Honors Attorneys in my component go straight into the courtroom. I first-chaired my second trial. And because we can't staff cases like Biglaw does, a couple of attorneys are doing everything -- drafting, discovery, appearing in court, etc. The only people who get hands-on experience that fast are JAG attorneys and public defenders.

and some smaller firms. I worked at a small (by DC standards) law firm for about 7 years until I moved out of DC for family reasons. Prior to going there, I basically carried the bag for a plaintiff's lawyer for two years then came into this firm thinking I had real experience. 8 days in, they had me doing an injunction hearing with three witnesses. I felt like a fool out there on my own, and I stayed at work till 2 am prepping for a hearing that would now take me no more than a few hours, but the outcome was better than expected. I got some very solid experience (taking cases from file to trial and doing a few appeals on my own) but also handling clients, bringing in clients on my own, and dealing with them when things didn't go well in a courtroom, and making sure the bills got paid. So, you can get good experience in these types of firms as well, but I agree, a PD or JAG has a lot more trial experience than I do, and they should be in high demand.

Anonymous wrote:There's a revolving door now in Fed work. Take FDA. Work there a few years. Leave for Big Pharma. I doubt someone who initially pursued the prestige and money of Big Law would be content at a highly slow-paced bureaucratic agency.

LOL at the last sentence.

Law schools funnel students into firms: you have to know your own mind to choose something else. That's even harder when you see your loan payment and the law firm salary. Most people go thinking they'll leave soon, but get trapped by the money. And while there are interesting firm jobs for junior associates (I had one) for most associates the agency work is a lot more interesting.

There's a revolving door now in Fed work. Take FDA. Work there a few years. Leave for Big Pharma. I doubt someone who initially pursued the prestige and money of Big Law would be content at a highly slow-paced bureaucratic agency.

I’m an attorney at a desirable agency as well and can’t tell you all my law school classmates and “friends” suddenly wanting to reach out and in conversations, always say something dismissive and/or humble braggy that shows their entitlement. The thing is I care about the job and the agency mission and our work, many many of us government folks do so to hear someone say they deserve a job just because they were at a fancy law firm is off putting.

I know it won’t make a difference but I was on a hiring panel and we went with the candidate that had civil service experience versus the big law candidate, government work really really shouldn’t be about prestige like in big law.

Now go on dcum w your big law pedigree to tell me I have a chip on shoulder or couldn’t cut it for big law.

Anonymous wrote:While you're being nasty I get what you're saying - working at a fed financial agency now and as a former vault biglaw associate. He honestly sounds like he hasn't applied to many jobs yet. When most first start applying most don't consider the fact that each of the 99 other vault 100 firms has dozens of associates that are 6th year+ all applying to the exact same jobs they're applying to and all these associates have equal experience given that all the firms compete for business from the same clients. He'll get it - it takes a few rounds of rejections to really get it.

Good analysis and much gentler than OP.

While you're being nasty I get what you're saying - working at a fed financial agency now and as a former vault biglaw associate. He honestly sounds like he hasn't applied to many jobs yet. When most first start applying most don't consider the fact that each of the 99 other vault 100 firms has dozens of associates that are 6th year+ all applying to the exact same jobs they're applying to and all these associates have equal experience given that all the firms compete for business from the same clients. He'll get it - it takes a few rounds of rejections to really get it.

Anonymous wrote:OP had me until, "And that it takes them 5+ years in biglaw to get the same level of responsibility that we give to first year honors attorneys at my agency." I doubt that is true. It certainly is not at my agency. OP should also realize that what she does is not all that unique. In my experience, I know I can train anyone, so academic credentials are important to me.

My first year at my agency -- just out of law school -- years ago -- I had more responsibility than a 10th year. Things may have changed but I doubt it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am guessing you went to a mid-tier law school and are now gleeful about telling the Duke guy to "take a number".

OP said top schools.

OP the truth is arrogant big law litigators are a dime a dozen. It's not specific to this guy, and if he's getting under your skin you can just stop being so gentle with his inquiries. "They know I referred you; if they reach out to me I'll let you know."

Haha, nice.

The advice is good too. OP, I'm a former biglaw attorney turned Fed, and I think your Duke friend just might be naturally arrogant. I know I was grateful to get the Fed job I did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its HYP or T14. The rest only exist in people's ego fever dreams.

LOL Princeton doesn't have a law school and surely you're not referencing Penn

Princeton Law has at least on it fabulous graduate.

Anonymous wrote:Retired Biglaw partner from one of the top DC firms here. I have to say, when associates at our firm started looking elsewhere I didn't see a lot of arrogance. They were mostly pretty humbled by how things transpired for them in Biglaw and did not apply for government jobs with any expectation or assumption that they'd get their pick of the litter.

Totally agree

Anonymous wrote:Its HYP or T14. The rest only exist in people's ego fever dreams.

LOL Princeton doesn't have a law school and surely you're not referencing Penn

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am guessing you went to a mid-tier law school and are now gleeful about telling the Duke guy to "take a number".

If so, looks like op is the smart one. Sorry to burst your bubble. 🤭

Retired Biglaw partner from one of the top DC firms here. I have to say, when associates at our firm started looking elsewhere I didn't see a lot of arrogance. They were mostly pretty humbled by how things transpired for them in Biglaw and did not apply for government jobs with any expectation or assumption that they'd get their pick of the litter.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am guessing you went to a mid-tier law school and are now gleeful about telling the Duke guy to "take a number".

Classic dcum response right here, folks.

Remember that with the cost of law school, it now takes about 6 years to pay off the law school debt. Very plausible folks are leaving for that reason too.