Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You cannot generalize about what is being taught in American schools. Yes, real history is being taught in some places, but certainly not in places with right-wing school boards, which cover much of the country. And where so-called "real" history is being taught, it's of recent enough vintage that many of today's adults were not privy to those "real" history lessons. Hell, many of them were raised on the Lost Cause narrative of the Civil War and Reconstruction, which was the mainstream take in this country well into the late 20th century.

There is most certainly a project to make it more difficult for schools to teach the darker chapters, as exemplified by the moves to ban titles about civil rights heroes, etc. When the standard (as inscribed in legislation being pushed around the country) is we can't teach anything that makes any group feel bad, the real goal is a scrubbing of American history of anything but the heroic (even though the heroic and tragic are often inextricably linked).

No. This is part of a long-term project to establish Patriotic Education such as that seen in the PRC. The parents that got riled up by so-called CRT were useful pawns in that enterprise, as were the wokie dokes of the day (i.e., Kendi and co.) who played the role of convenient foils that even most black folks could care less about. Classic strategy of misdirection that the GOP used (and will continue to use) to scare up votes, win elections, and then continue their effort to make it more difficult for black folks to vote (and/or easier to toss their votes out). That is the real material, practical outcome of all this.

Oh jeez. Lost Cause? No kid is taught that in school. No adult learned that in school.

That's what you think you're fighting? Really?

Uhh...yes, many living-breathing adults today were, in fact, raised on the Lost Cause narrative. Period.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/slavery-history-virginia-textbook/2020/07/31/d8571eda-d1f0-11ea-8c55-61e7fa5e82ab_story.html

That writer was in 4th grade in 67. He's a Boomer. Do we really need to fight about what Boomers learned in grade school? We didn't learn that in 4th grade. Can we look at what our 4th graders are learning now?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You cannot generalize about what is being taught in American schools. Yes, real history is being taught in some places, but certainly not in places with right-wing school boards, which cover much of the country. And where so-called "real" history is being taught, it's of recent enough vintage that many of today's adults were not privy to those "real" history lessons. Hell, many of them were raised on the Lost Cause narrative of the Civil War and Reconstruction, which was the mainstream take in this country well into the late 20th century.

There is most certainly a project to make it more difficult for schools to teach the darker chapters, as exemplified by the moves to ban titles about civil rights heroes, etc. When the standard (as inscribed in legislation being pushed around the country) is we can't teach anything that makes any group feel bad, the real goal is a scrubbing of American history of anything but the heroic (even though the heroic and tragic are often inextricably linked).

No. This is part of a long-term project to establish Patriotic Education such as that seen in the PRC. The parents that got riled up by so-called CRT were useful pawns in that enterprise, as were the wokie dokes of the day (i.e., Kendi and co.) who played the role of convenient foils that even most black folks could care less about. Classic strategy of misdirection that the GOP used (and will continue to use) to scare up votes, win elections, and then continue their effort to make it more difficult for black folks to vote (and/or easier to toss their votes out). That is the real material, practical outcome of all this.

Oh jeez. Lost Cause? No kid is taught that in school. No adult learned that in school.

That's what you think you're fighting? Really?

Uhh...yes, many living-breathing adults today were, in fact, raised on the Lost Cause narrative. Period.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/slavery-history-virginia-textbook/2020/07/31/d8571eda-d1f0-11ea-8c55-61e7fa5e82ab_story.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You cannot generalize about what is being taught in American schools. Yes, real history is being taught in some places, but certainly not in places with right-wing school boards, which cover much of the country. And where so-called "real" history is being taught, it's of recent enough vintage that many of today's adults were not privy to those "real" history lessons. Hell, many of them were raised on the Lost Cause narrative of the Civil War and Reconstruction, which was the mainstream take in this country well into the late 20th century.

There is most certainly a project to make it more difficult for schools to teach the darker chapters, as exemplified by the moves to ban titles about civil rights heroes, etc. When the standard (as inscribed in legislation being pushed around the country) is we can't teach anything that makes any group feel bad, the real goal is a scrubbing of American history of anything but the heroic (even though the heroic and tragic are often inextricably linked).

No. This is part of a long-term project to establish Patriotic Education such as that seen in the PRC. The parents that got riled up by so-called CRT were useful pawns in that enterprise, as were the wokie dokes of the day (i.e., Kendi and co.) who played the role of convenient foils that even most black folks could care less about. Classic strategy of misdirection that the GOP used (and will continue to use) to scare up votes, win elections, and then continue their effort to make it more difficult for black folks to vote (and/or easier to toss their votes out). That is the real material, practical outcome of all this.

Oh jeez. Lost Cause? No kid is taught that in school. No adult learned that in school.

That's what you think you're fighting? Really?

Uhh...yes, many living-breathing adults today were, in fact, raised on the Lost Cause narrative. Period.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/slavery-history-virginia-textbook/2020/07/31/d8571eda-d1f0-11ea-8c55-61e7fa5e82ab_story.html

Keep on tilting at windmills. OP is showing you what the results of that look like.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You cannot generalize about what is being taught in American schools. Yes, real history is being taught in some places, but certainly not in places with right-wing school boards, which cover much of the country. And where so-called "real" history is being taught, it's of recent enough vintage that many of today's adults were not privy to those "real" history lessons. Hell, many of them were raised on the Lost Cause narrative of the Civil War and Reconstruction, which was the mainstream take in this country well into the late 20th century.

There is most certainly a project to make it more difficult for schools to teach the darker chapters, as exemplified by the moves to ban titles about civil rights heroes, etc. When the standard (as inscribed in legislation being pushed around the country) is we can't teach anything that makes any group feel bad, the real goal is a scrubbing of American history of anything but the heroic (even though the heroic and tragic are often inextricably linked).

No. This is part of a long-term project to establish Patriotic Education such as that seen in the PRC. The parents that got riled up by so-called CRT were useful pawns in that enterprise, as were the wokie dokes of the day (i.e., Kendi and co.) who played the role of convenient foils that even most black folks could care less about. Classic strategy of misdirection that the GOP used (and will continue to use) to scare up votes, win elections, and then continue their effort to make it more difficult for black folks to vote (and/or easier to toss their votes out). That is the real material, practical outcome of all this.

Oh jeez. Lost Cause? No kid is taught that in school. No adult learned that in school.

That's what you think you're fighting? Really?

Uhh...yes, many living-breathing adults today were, in fact, raised on the Lost Cause narrative. Period.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/slavery-history-virginia-textbook/2020/07/31/d8571eda-d1f0-11ea-8c55-61e7fa5e82ab_story.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You cannot generalize about what is being taught in American schools. Yes, real history is being taught in some places, but certainly not in places with right-wing school boards, which cover much of the country. And where so-called "real" history is being taught, it's of recent enough vintage that many of today's adults were not privy to those "real" history lessons. Hell, many of them were raised on the Lost Cause narrative of the Civil War and Reconstruction, which was the mainstream take in this country well into the late 20th century.

There is most certainly a project to make it more difficult for schools to teach the darker chapters, as exemplified by the moves to ban titles about civil rights heroes, etc. When the standard (as inscribed in legislation being pushed around the country) is we can't teach anything that makes any group feel bad, the real goal is a scrubbing of American history of anything but the heroic (even though the heroic and tragic are often inextricably linked).

No. This is part of a long-term project to establish Patriotic Education such as that seen in the PRC. The parents that got riled up by so-called CRT were useful pawns in that enterprise, as were the wokie dokes of the day (i.e., Kendi and co.) who played the role of convenient foils that even most black folks could care less about. Classic strategy of misdirection that the GOP used (and will continue to use) to scare up votes, win elections, and then continue their effort to make it more difficult for black folks to vote (and/or easier to toss their votes out). That is the real material, practical outcome of all this.

Oh jeez. Lost Cause? No kid is taught that in school. No adult learned that in school.

That's what you think you're fighting? Really?

Anonymous wrote:
You cannot generalize about what is being taught in American schools. Yes, real history is being taught in some places, but certainly not in places with right-wing school boards, which cover much of the country. And where so-called "real" history is being taught, it's of recent enough vintage that many of today's adults were not privy to those "real" history lessons. Hell, many of them were raised on the Lost Cause narrative of the Civil War and Reconstruction, which was the mainstream take in this country well into the late 20th century.

There is most certainly a project to make it more difficult for schools to teach the darker chapters, as exemplified by the moves to ban titles about civil rights heroes, etc. When the standard (as inscribed in legislation being pushed around the country) is we can't teach anything that makes any group feel bad, the real goal is a scrubbing of American history of anything but the heroic (even though the heroic and tragic are often inextricably linked).

No. This is part of a long-term project to establish Patriotic Education such as that seen in the PRC. The parents that got riled up by so-called CRT were useful pawns in that enterprise, as were the wokie dokes of the day (i.e., Kendi and co.) who played the role of convenient foils that even most black folks could care less about. Classic strategy of misdirection that the GOP used (and will continue to use) to scare up votes, win elections, and then continue their effort to make it more difficult for black folks to vote (and/or easier to toss their votes out). That is the real material, practical outcome of all this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not black, so I can’t pretend to know what you’re experiencing, but I do think I kind of understand the feeling that maybe we’re not doing our kids any favors by bringing them into a world where there’s genocide, murder, rape, torture, racism, famine, disease, pestilence, climate change. There are many horrific things in the world that I wish I could keep my kids from even knowing exist, but . . .

OMG. Tone deaf much? Do you even realize the point of OP creating this thread??

Your list does not even mention the white supremacy in Virginia and New Jersey demonstrated on Tuesday night, and the pervasive systemic racism her own child faces - particularly from genocidal racist police in the US. Your list just vaguely tosses in “racism” like it’s any other old problem day to day.

You really do not understand.

Oh, FFS. VA did not demonstrate white supremacy by electiing (barely) a Republican governor. I'm black, and voted for McAuliffe, and don't like Youngkin, but I think your hysteria is misplaced and absurd. VA's governors serve one term and they're out. Hopefully we'll replace him with a better choice next go 'round.

I agree that “white supremacy” isn’t the quite right descriptor, but I do think that (and I hate this term) “white fragility” was on display as manifested by many parents who can’t tolerate the schools mentioning even the slightest uncomfortable facts of American history. The whole CRT thing was a ruse. The real goal is the erasure of unsavory episodes our history lest children (or more likely parents) feel a bit upset. It’s actually a long running project of the right and was very much emphasized. These folks want “patriotic” education full stop, which means sweeping a ton under the rug. That was the object no doubt. Now - will they be successful? Probably not at the school-by-school level, but it will continue to be a potent electoral force, which the GOP will use to win elections and then use enhanced electoral power to make it harder for black folks to vote (and/or easier to toss their votes out), which I guess approaches white supremacy.

But it’s all good so long as little Connor doesn’t have to learn about redlining, I guess.

Dems need to be smarter tho’ and realize that white folks can only tolerate so much…

People who say things like this have little knowledge of what is being taught in schools. History classes have been quite focused on the failings of America toward minorities, women and other countries for several decades. In fact, so much so that young adults have little knowledge of the efforts of their country to expand rights and freedoms in ways that no other country had. That their very ability to speak and protest is due to the sacrifice of those racist Founders.

Real history is definitely taught. People are objecting to the "anti-racist" ideas that white people today are responsible for and benefitting from the suffering of previous generations of Black people. And that somehow current minorities are both more virtuous and unable to be racist due to their skin color. And finally, that these ideas require a massive investment from society in equity reparations. These ideas, in a country whose only remaining cultural bind are the Founding documents that call for equality before the law, is a bridge too far.

People know that dividing people by race will not lead to a better place.

Exactly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t get it. Where is the sense of perspective? You think bringing black kids into the world is abusive?

Did anyone think this in the 50s/60s? During Jim Crow? Things are monumentally better for black people and all people now. Massive legal reform, economic progress, equal (or better) representation in culture and the arts, black millionaires and billionaires, presidents and senators. Every elite institution is bending over backward to unload trucks of money for qualified black candidates. No company in America would even think of publishing an ad campaign not featuring POC or putting out a movie that doesn’t feature a heroic black or other POC lead character. Decades of rampant police abuse of POC is finally getting exposed for all to see and stamped out for good.

But… Virginia barely elected a Republican? And queue the hysteria?

I clearly have a view, but I’m honestly not trying to be insensitive or obtuse. The black people I’m close to—admittedly, rich and mostly from top schools, etc—are doing just great.

I genuinely just feel like people are living in alternate universes right now. We’re not even describing the same factual world.

If you’re seriously wondering what people thought in the 50s /60s there are plenty of resources out there and plenty of people that you can ask. I would say more, but I’m not clear from your diatribe that you’re here to learn. Do you know, for example, the percentage of Black kids who attend underfunded, racially segregated schools? Have you thought about how and why this reality came to be?
Here’s some fun reading for you.

https://www.epi.org/publication/schools-are-still-segregated-and-black-children-are-paying-a-price/

One quick question though: Who do I call to get access to those truckloads of money? I don’t want a lot. Just enough to feel reasonably secure both now and as I head towards retirement. I have an Ivy League degree, a PhD, and I can code switch with alacrity.

You may not be trying to be insensitive or obtuse, but if the Black people you are close to are “admittedly, rich and mostly from top schools, etc (and) doing just great”, you surely must realize that 1) those people are hardly representative of Black Americans as a demographic group, and 2) while they might truly be doing “just great”, you may or may not be privy to the stressors that they’re facing in the process.

I truly hope you’re right about police abuse of POC getting “stamped out for good” — but little that I’ve seen or read suggests that. Perhaps you can provide us with some data when you get tired from accusing people whose challenges you do not share of “hysteria “.

tldr: Things might be better in many respects for a few, and that’s great. Representation is also great. But we really are not living in the same world much of the time. If you would sincerely like to explore the issues that you’ve raised, consider starting another thread.

OP: Sometimes it IS hard, and it helps to have people in your Village who can see that too. I hope you have a strong support system.
I hope that things get better — for you and your family, and for us all. Sending positive thoughts your way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not black, so I can’t pretend to know what you’re experiencing, but I do think I kind of understand the feeling that maybe we’re not doing our kids any favors by bringing them into a world where there’s genocide, murder, rape, torture, racism, famine, disease, pestilence, climate change. There are many horrific things in the world that I wish I could keep my kids from even knowing exist, but . . .

OMG. Tone deaf much? Do you even realize the point of OP creating this thread??

Your list does not even mention the white supremacy in Virginia and New Jersey demonstrated on Tuesday night, and the pervasive systemic racism her own child faces - particularly from genocidal racist police in the US. Your list just vaguely tosses in “racism” like it’s any other old problem day to day.

You really do not understand.

Oh, FFS. VA did not demonstrate white supremacy by electiing (barely) a Republican governor. I'm black, and voted for McAuliffe, and don't like Youngkin, but I think your hysteria is misplaced and absurd. VA's governors serve one term and they're out. Hopefully we'll replace him with a better choice next go 'round.

I agree that “white supremacy” isn’t the quite right descriptor, but I do think that (and I hate this term) “white fragility” was on display as manifested by many parents who can’t tolerate the schools mentioning even the slightest uncomfortable facts of American history. The whole CRT thing was a ruse. The real goal is the erasure of unsavory episodes our history lest children (or more likely parents) feel a bit upset. It’s actually a long running project of the right and was very much emphasized. These folks want “patriotic” education full stop, which means sweeping a ton under the rug. That was the object no doubt. Now - will they be successful? Probably not at the school-by-school level, but it will continue to be a potent electoral force, which the GOP will use to win elections and then use enhanced electoral power to make it harder for black folks to vote (and/or easier to toss their votes out), which I guess approaches white supremacy.

But it’s all good so long as little Connor doesn’t have to learn about redlining, I guess.

Dems need to be smarter tho’ and realize that white folks can only tolerate so much…

People who say things like this have little knowledge of what is being taught in schools. History classes have been quite focused on the failings of America toward minorities, women and other countries for several decades. In fact, so much so that young adults have little knowledge of the efforts of their country to expand rights and freedoms in ways that no other country had. That their very ability to speak and protest is due to the sacrifice of those racist Founders.

Real history is definitely taught. People are objecting to the "anti-racist" ideas that white people today are responsible for and benefitting from the suffering of previous generations of Black people. And that somehow current minorities are both more virtuous and unable to be racist due to their skin color. And finally, that these ideas require a massive investment from society in equity reparations. These ideas, in a country whose only remaining cultural bind are the Founding documents that call for equality before the law, is a bridge too far.

People know that dividing people by race will not lead to a better place.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not black, so I can’t pretend to know what you’re experiencing, but I do think I kind of understand the feeling that maybe we’re not doing our kids any favors by bringing them into a world where there’s genocide, murder, rape, torture, racism, famine, disease, pestilence, climate change. There are many horrific things in the world that I wish I could keep my kids from even knowing exist, but . . .

OMG. Tone deaf much? Do you even realize the point of OP creating this thread??

Your list does not even mention the white supremacy in Virginia and New Jersey demonstrated on Tuesday night, and the pervasive systemic racism her own child faces - particularly from genocidal racist police in the US. Your list just vaguely tosses in “racism” like it’s any other old problem day to day.

You really do not understand.

Oh, FFS. VA did not demonstrate white supremacy by electiing (barely) a Republican governor. I'm black, and voted for McAuliffe, and don't like Youngkin, but I think your hysteria is misplaced and absurd. VA's governors serve one term and they're out. Hopefully we'll replace him with a better choice next go 'round.

I agree that “white supremacy” isn’t the quite right descriptor, but I do think that (and I hate this term) “white fragility” was on display as manifested by many parents who can’t tolerate the schools mentioning even the slightest uncomfortable facts of American history. The whole CRT thing was a ruse. The real goal is the erasure of unsavory episodes our history lest children (or more likely parents) feel a bit upset. It’s actually a long running project of the right and was very much emphasized. These folks want “patriotic” education full stop, which means sweeping a ton under the rug. That was the object no doubt. Now - will they be successful? Probably not at the school-by-school level, but it will continue to be a potent electoral force, which the GOP will use to win elections and then use enhanced electoral power to make it harder for black folks to vote (and/or easier to toss their votes out), which I guess approaches white supremacy.

But it’s all good so long as little Connor doesn’t have to learn about redlining, I guess.

Dems need to be smarter tho’ and realize that white folks can only tolerate so much…

At what age is little Connor learning about redlining? Early elementary?

if the GOP has its way, little Connor will never learn about it

Yes, we don't want to reveal how systemic racism is hurting people today.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not black, so I can’t pretend to know what you’re experiencing, but I do think I kind of understand the feeling that maybe we’re not doing our kids any favors by bringing them into a world where there’s genocide, murder, rape, torture, racism, famine, disease, pestilence, climate change. There are many horrific things in the world that I wish I could keep my kids from even knowing exist, but . . .

OMG. Tone deaf much? Do you even realize the point of OP creating this thread??

Your list does not even mention the white supremacy in Virginia and New Jersey demonstrated on Tuesday night, and the pervasive systemic racism her own child faces - particularly from genocidal racist police in the US. Your list just vaguely tosses in “racism” like it’s any other old problem day to day.

You really do not understand.

Oh, FFS. VA did not demonstrate white supremacy by electiing (barely) a Republican governor. I'm black, and voted for McAuliffe, and don't like Youngkin, but I think your hysteria is misplaced and absurd. VA's governors serve one term and they're out. Hopefully we'll replace him with a better choice next go 'round.

I agree that “white supremacy” isn’t the quite right descriptor, but I do think that (and I hate this term) “white fragility” was on display as manifested by many parents who can’t tolerate the schools mentioning even the slightest uncomfortable facts of American history. The whole CRT thing was a ruse. The real goal is the erasure of unsavory episodes our history lest children (or more likely parents) feel a bit upset. It’s actually a long running project of the right and was very much emphasized. These folks want “patriotic” education full stop, which means sweeping a ton under the rug. That was the object no doubt. Now - will they be successful? Probably not at the school-by-school level, but it will continue to be a potent electoral force, which the GOP will use to win elections and then use enhanced electoral power to make it harder for black folks to vote (and/or easier to toss their votes out), which I guess approaches white supremacy.

But it’s all good so long as little Connor doesn’t have to learn about redlining, I guess.

Dems need to be smarter tho’ and realize that white folks can only tolerate so much…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This country is all about white rage over petty things. But whatever…

Yep...these fools started a revolution because they couldn't be trouble to pay taxes to support the frontier defense provided by the home country. I used to think that the American experiment was worth it because my ancestors toiled and worked to fulfill the promise of the founding documents. I mean, if they believed in the promise of America, who was I to reject it. Well...I've wised up and now see the whole enterprise for the sick joke that it is. All the merry myth-making is BS. But look, I obey the law, pay my taxes, and try to spread kindness wherever I go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not black, so I can’t pretend to know what you’re experiencing, but I do think I kind of understand the feeling that maybe we’re not doing our kids any favors by bringing them into a world where there’s genocide, murder, rape, torture, racism, famine, disease, pestilence, climate change. There are many horrific things in the world that I wish I could keep my kids from even knowing exist, but . . .

OMG. Tone deaf much? Do you even realize the point of OP creating this thread??

Your list does not even mention the white supremacy in Virginia and New Jersey demonstrated on Tuesday night, and the pervasive systemic racism her own child faces - particularly from genocidal racist police in the US. Your list just vaguely tosses in “racism” like it’s any other old problem day to day.

You really do not understand.