Anonymous
Post 10/26/2021 05:18     Subject: How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op, are you actually upset that you decided not to have kids? Honest question.


This is OP here.

No, I don't feel upset about our decision not to have kids. I still stand by that decision. However I do feel that there are certain aspects of community and family life that my husband and are not part of. I find it quite hard to explain. Let me try and give an example.
My husband's siblings, who all have kids, seem to have a closer connection with each other, plus a wider circle of friends and acquaintances than us, purely because they all had kids.
They would have experienced ante natal classes, mom & baby groups, toddler activities, meeting their kids' friends, meeting the other moms and dads, PTA, attending their kids' school plays, sports games, BBQs with other parents, etc.

I also notice it in the small town where my husband and I live. It's a beautiful town and it's very family friendly and safe, but in my experience we, as a childfree couple now entering middle age, have to make A LOT more effort to socialize and make friends than people who have children. There just isn't that network.

I do realise that we've had a lot more free time and 'freedom' than people with kids, but at the ages we are now, it sometimes makes me wonder what our future in old age will hold.


Op after COVID I have been surprised at how many people have relayed happiness at not having to go to those parent BBQ or PTA meetings. They have said they are happy they don't have to be around their kids friends parents. What seems like close friendships is sometimes an obligation. In other occasions I have friends who have said they have a close mom's group who have become good friends.

The point is sometimes groups are close friends and sometimes they aren't. Some of the closest friends I see in others comes from adult sports. Not from their kids sports which they see as an obligation but from the sports groups they have as adults. This is why many are saying branch out and find your group. They will be there, you just have to find them.

In older years there are so many groups to join, volunteer work. My MIL use to sit at home alone until one of her friends she didn't see anymore invited her to join a group at the senior centre near their home. Now she has weekly social outings and has a bit of a social life again. My MIL had kids and yet she didn't see anyone until she made this change in her life. She is better for it.

Sometimes it takes a while to find that group but you will get there. This is coming from someone without kids and has formed a life around that. I get what you are saying, its easier with kids, the social life is almost organised for you. Our siblings are the same, however other relationships have proven to be more fulfilling, so I would suggest branching out.
Anonymous
Post 10/26/2021 00:47     Subject: How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I don’t do anything for his family anymore. He’s irrational where they are concerned, it the only thing we ever fight about and his behavior is so ingrained that it will never change at this point. If they lived nearby we’d probably be divorced. So I no longer ask about them, I make no effort to remind him of birthdays/holidays, I don’t suggest times that would be good for visits, I don’t do any of the logistics of us visiting them or them visiting us, and I try, as much as feasible, to not be around when they come to visit and to schedule work trips when a visit to them is scheduled.

Otherwise, it’s just a nightmare for me. Nothing I do is good enough. Put out coffee in the morning? “Where is the bold roast, we don’t like breakfast blend.” Next visit, remember the preference, make bold roast, “We only like medium roast, why did you serve us bold?” That’s just a tiny example but it was every single thing, like they were purposely setting me up for failure and intentionally demanding something different. One time I asked them to write down all their preferences, then got all the requested brands/items for the next visit, and upon their arrival was informed they were now not eating carbs when the previous list included Raisin Bran, Fritos, lunch meats, etc. I can’t imagine going to someone’s house and telling them everything they offer me is wrong, from the color of the towels to the type of coffee to the car they own to the size of the tv they have.


^^ I am similar.

DH is a big boy. He can shop for gifts for his family if he wants to give them, call them etc....I'm not keeping track for him.

His mother and sister were over the top and had we stayed living near them, we would have divorced years ago. Luckily right before we got pregnant, DH got a job offer across the country. We moved 2,500 miles away.
THey were nasty to me in the early days of our marriage and I don't have anything to do with them for 25 years. They are not welcome in my house.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2021 09:24     Subject: Re:How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
Anonymous wrote:OP this sounds much like our marriage during the early years. For whatever reason, DH just wasn’t included in some family things etc and he was ok with that (it bothered me!). I finally realized that I should be focusing on my own family and friends...why put so much effort into ILs at this stage? 🤷‍♀️ I decided to be polite when we saw them and otherwise not worry about it.

17 years later, I’m glad. DH and his family are just no terribly close for a number of reasons, and this extends to me and the kids. We all love each other, they do love our kids, but DH just doesn’t mesh with his family the way some of his siblings do. Oh, well. It has never changed.

Focus on your own family and friends! Your relationship with ILs may improve, it may not. Be polite and accepting but don’t expect much. Use that energy on your own family of origin and friends.


x100000

Treat them the way the treat you, and focus on your own family. You aren't going to change haters. They may be severely depressed people, for all you know, OP. You can't fix it, so enjoy your own people.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2021 09:19     Subject: How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op, are you actually upset that you decided not to have kids? Honest question.


This is OP here.

No, I don't feel upset about our decision not to have kids. I still stand by that decision. However I do feel that there are certain aspects of community and family life that my husband and are not part of. I find it quite hard to explain. Let me try and give an example.
My husband's siblings, who all have kids, seem to have a closer connection with each other, plus a wider circle of friends and acquaintances than us, purely because they all had kids.
They would have experienced ante natal classes, mom & baby groups, toddler activities, meeting their kids' friends, meeting the other moms and dads, PTA, attending their kids' school plays, sports games, BBQs with other parents, etc.

I also notice it in the small town where my husband and I live. It's a beautiful town and it's very family friendly and safe, but in my experience we, as a childfree couple now entering middle age, have to make A LOT more effort to socialize and make friends than people who have children. There just isn't that network.

I do realise that we've had a lot more free time and 'freedom' than people with kids, but at the ages we are now, it sometimes makes me wonder what our future in old age will hold.


OP, this is an insightful post. It is apparent you've done some reflecting on the impact of your choice, which still appears to be the right one for you.

I assume though, that this is not relevant to what you were describing originally about your inlaws? Or, to the extent it is relevant, you feel like a bit of an "outsider" for not having children, and you are imputing some fault onto your inlaws, when really it is just the reality of your life and nobody is at fault?
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2021 08:34     Subject: How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
Anonymous wrote:Op, are you actually upset that you decided not to have kids? Honest question.


This is OP here.

No, I don't feel upset about our decision not to have kids. I still stand by that decision. However I do feel that there are certain aspects of community and family life that my husband and are not part of. I find it quite hard to explain. Let me try and give an example.
My husband's siblings, who all have kids, seem to have a closer connection with each other, plus a wider circle of friends and acquaintances than us, purely because they all had kids.
They would have experienced ante natal classes, mom & baby groups, toddler activities, meeting their kids' friends, meeting the other moms and dads, PTA, attending their kids' school plays, sports games, BBQs with other parents, etc.

I also notice it in the small town where my husband and I live. It's a beautiful town and it's very family friendly and safe, but in my experience we, as a childfree couple now entering middle age, have to make A LOT more effort to socialize and make friends than people who have children. There just isn't that network.

I do realise that we've had a lot more free time and 'freedom' than people with kids, but at the ages we are now, it sometimes makes me wonder what our future in old age will hold.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2021 07:03     Subject: How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
Op, are you actually upset that you decided not to have kids? Honest question.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2021 06:44     Subject: Re:How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
I am pleasantly surprised by most of the responses on this thread. I thought it was going to be another "Down with all the terrible inlaws and weak disloyal husbands!" thread.

I agree with the majority here that even your framing is off. This isn't really about "standing up to" family. This is jut an instance of things bothering you that do not bother your husband. There is no pattern of crossing boundaries or disrespect. They just act differently in some instances than you personally would want them to. Your husband does not see a problem. If you have a problem, your choice is to get right with it, or say something yourself.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2021 23:49     Subject: Re:How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
OP this sounds much like our marriage during the early years. For whatever reason, DH just wasn’t included in some family things etc and he was ok with that (it bothered me!). I finally realized that I should be focusing on my own family and friends...why put so much effort into ILs at this stage? 🤷‍♀️ I decided to be polite when we saw them and otherwise not worry about it.

17 years later, I’m glad. DH and his family are just no terribly close for a number of reasons, and this extends to me and the kids. We all love each other, they do love our kids, but DH just doesn’t mesh with his family the way some of his siblings do. Oh, well. It has never changed.

Focus on your own family and friends! Your relationship with ILs may improve, it may not. Be polite and accepting but don’t expect much. Use that energy on your own family of origin and friends.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2021 21:43     Subject: How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is there to be gained by confronting people that excluded you from events?
Other than looking like sad pathetic losers?


These were small events just for family. On a few occasions my husband was the only one of the children not to be invited.
By confrontation I don't mean being rude or demanding. He could have casually asked if we could join them.

They sometimes organize these small events on a weekday. My husband works full time from Monday to Friday so he can't take time off work for family gatherings during the week. It's usually a lunch at home or out, a celebration or other. The others are either SAHMs, or they have a more flexible timetable.


so you want them not to meet during the workday because you are not available? What the what?


I read it that OP would like it if they occasionally had something on the weekend so OP and her husband could be included. It is excluding them a little when they then don't make an effort during other family events to talk to them. The sibling relationships don't sound that close.

Op all I can suggest is to plan a lunch on the weekend and invite the siblings. Do this every now and again and see how it goes. If other siblings are SAHM then its natural they will get together throughout the week and you shouldn't think much about this. Any money going to grandchildren is none of your business and is not unfairness.

I dare say that because you have chosen a different sort of lifestyle to them, they may feel out of touch with you so when you see them, ask heaps about their kids etc, if they continue to be cold or are unable to show interest in your life, well there isn't much you can do but build your own support networks and drop the rope with them, keep it superficial and that's it.



This is the OP once again.
You get it, thanks. You may be right that my SAHM SILs feel out of touch with us. We kind of feel out of touch with them too. We have a different lifestyle to them, and we have different timetables.

The age difference between my husband and his siblings may play a role. They are all between 7 and 12 years younger than him.

My husband is friendly with his siblings but he doesn't feel a close connection. One of his sisters works in performing arts and she is very theatrical in the way she behaves, even with close family. My husband thinks this is over the top and unnecessary.

We are childfree by choice and, even if we wanted to become parents, that ship has sailed. We're too old now.

Some posters made comments about money. DH and I are financially comfortable and we don't need money from MIL, thanks. We invested our own money wisely.


Yeah it simply seems that you just don't have that much in common with them. I understand wanting a closer relationship but its likely not going to happen not just because of the kids/no kids but just because personality wise you probably don't gel with them that well. Someone acting theatrical, yep annoying and this is most likely why your husband doesn't want to put in more time and energy into the relationship. Its not personal to you.

I would invite them over every now and again for lunch on the weekends to keep you in the loop and see if you can built on anything but not expect too much.

Also I wouldn't worry about missing the lunches during the week. They probably wouldn't be as exciting or interesting as what you think. Keep in mind that as their kids get older their weekends will be busy with activities which is why maybe they also get together during the week, it fits into their schedule more easily.

That's why I would branch out into other circles and not worry so much about the in-laws. Find other people who fit into your life and you enjoy. Long term you will be happier.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2021 21:30     Subject: How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'd have sussed it out before marriage and not married him. I'm super confrontational and won't stand for someone who won't back me up.


This is OP again.
It wasn't apparent when we were dating or after we got engaged. I actually had and still have a good relationship with his mother. His dad (deceased) and I got on like a house on fire. His mom is a real lady, very old school, but she is elderly and she now lets her children rule the family. The people I was referring to are my husband's siblings and their spouses.

My husband is a decent, kind and hard working man, but where his siblings and their families are concerned he finds it easier to just go with the flow or give in and keep the peace.
By contrast, in his job he leads a team and he is known to be consistent, decisive and strict, but fair. He doesn't shy away from confrontation with his co-workers or his bosses at all. He is also a good speaker and he can address an audience. He is not timid.

My family of origin is different from his. A lot of my family members are quite vocal and direct (confrontational but not rude), as opposed to the passive aggressive treatment we sometimes get from my husband's family. It's a subtle form of passive aggressive behaviour and it's only noticeable to someone who is part of the family, if this makes any sense. To the outside world they're all charming, entertaining and well spoken.

As an example, one of his sisters' attitude changed once she got married and had the first grandchild in the family. She went from a normal, friendly sister in law to a super competitive woman who always wants to be queen bee. Her husband is not much better and they have form for not including us in certain family events.

I don't know how my husband puts up with them. I know he can be assertive and confrontational when he wants to.

Seems to me you are addicted to drama and creating it when there is none.
Your example of your SIL shows that she is very considerate and did not want to possibly upset you or cause hurt feelings. You too that as she has an attitude of holier than though??
In fact, my SIL and my close cousin, got pregnant just a bit after me, so we were pregnant at the same time, I was two months ahead of them. Both of them said something similar to me, hey, I hope you don't mind me being pregnant...bit in a way, they were on their second and enjoyed the spot light of their first pregnancy, and I was pregnant with my first child, and didn't want to "steal" the spotlight...
LOL. I never even once thought of any of these things, but thinking about them thinking about my feelings, regardless of me not having any such feelings, made me feel special!
Nor did I think, wow, they think I am needy or something. I am not, they know I am not. But, they are very much into emotional well being themselves and thought of me.
Never once did I think they had holier than though attitude.

Why are you so insecure op?


OMG asking someone when you are both pregnant if you are ok with it is completely different to being pregnant and then asking someone if they are suffering from infertility and if they have issues with you being pregnant.

How can you not see that? That's not being insecure and having empathy is understanding that people will bring that subject up with you if they want to, empathy is not forcing that conversation on someone, especially someone you are not that close with.

Well, nobody can see that other than you. I suppose not too many narcissists on this thread? Other that you?


A narcissist would be the person who wants the limelight while they are pregnant and actually worries that someone else is pregnant when its their first because they won't to be the only one to be fawned over and celebrated.

Honestly if you can't see the difference regarding asking about someone's fertility status before and after they are pregnant then you are clueless and immature. I guess it hits a nerve and perhaps you ask people routinely how their uterus is working. If you do, here's a hint, stop. Even a teenage would be self aware regarding this.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2021 19:11     Subject: How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like he deals with them the way he deals with you


+1 Why does he have to confront every thing and everyone, OP? Your husband is in the 'go along to get along' boat and it works for him. You should be happy that he is happy. Why are you trying to make him into something he is not? The fact that you are hellbent on changing him to fit your mold says way more about you than him AND makes YOU a lot more like his family than him.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2021 18:49     Subject: How do you deal with a spouse who doesn't stand up to his family?
Anonymous wrote:You are the one who brought up the college money in a completely disjointed update rant.


No. Read the thread properly and you will see that a poster suggested that this must all be a cover story for the siblings getting money for stuff, such as kid's tuition fees while we are child free. I replied truthfully that the child of one of my husband's sisters is receiving money towards college fees from from my MIL.

My MIL didn't exactly offer the money, my SIL and her husband asked for it.

We don't need to ask MIL for money. We're doing fine financially.