Anonymous wrote:Regarding rejection sensitivity and ADHD, I just want to note that an apology that is accepted by the class and teacher, where the child felt understood and forgiven for losing control, could actually be GOOD for RS. One hallmark of RS is the kind of “everyone hates me, I have no friends” catastrophizing, and discussing something like an outburst, seeing if the child wants apologize, and then having the other kids listen and accept can help short circuit that kind of catastrophizing by replacing it with facts. Instead of “everyone hates me”, it’s “some people were upset when I ripped up my paper the other day, but we talked about dealing with frustration and I apologized and Ms. Larla talked about how we all get frustrated and we all shared stuff we can do when we’re frustrated.”

Like there is a pro-social way to fo this that not only doesn’t Shane but builds bonds and helps contextualuze it for the child as a mistake we can all move on from. I think people are envisioning a very shaming, rigid, forced apology situation and I don’t personally know any teachers who would handle it that way. It doesn’t seem to be what OP’s daughter describes either.

Anyway, talking things through and showing an ADHD child that people can be upset about an isolated incident but forgive and offer understanding can be preferable to handling the whole thing privately away from the rest of the class. Peer judgment is critical at this age and transparency and communication can help combat gossip and exclusion, too.

except there is no transparency unless the whole class is informed the child has ADHD and possibly autism. I’m just really astounded at the people who insist this is appropriate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see anything wrong with that.

So if a kid on chemo throws up in the class, do they have to apologize for disrupting the class?

Kids throw up in class all the time. Chemo or not. It’s not usual for kids to tear up paper and yell during class. And I apologized just two days ago for vomiting in public after chemo.

So did a person in authority over you make you feel compelled to publicly apologize in front of a large group of people? That's the issue here.

Nope, I did it out of respect for the people around me.

Neither does being out of control or a jerk and not apologizing.

Anonymous wrote:Regarding rejection sensitivity and ADHD, I just want to note that an apology that is accepted by the class and teacher, where the child felt understood and forgiven for losing control, could actually be GOOD for RS. One hallmark of RS is the kind of “everyone hates me, I have no friends” catastrophizing, and discussing something like an outburst, seeing if the child wants apologize, and then having the other kids listen and accept can help short circuit that kind of catastrophizing by replacing it with facts. Instead of “everyone hates me”, it’s “some people were upset when I ripped up my paper the other day, but we talked about dealing with frustration and I apologized and Ms. Larla talked about how we all get frustrated and we all shared stuff we can do when we’re frustrated.”

Like there is a pro-social way to fo this that not only doesn’t Shane but builds bonds and helps contextualuze it for the child as a mistake we can all move on from. I think people are envisioning a very shaming, rigid, forced apology situation and I don’t personally know any teachers who would handle it that way. It doesn’t seem to be what OP’s daughter describes either.

Anyway, talking things through and showing an ADHD child that people can be upset about an isolated incident but forgive and offer understanding can be preferable to handling the whole thing privately away from the rest of the class. Peer judgment is critical at this age and transparency and communication can help combat gossip and exclusion, too.

Apologizing doesn't make people want to be your friend or like you. Lets be real. There were so many things this teacher could have done to help and choose not to. Then she shamed the child. A simple apology to her is enough. And, a discussion about what the teacher can do to help and how to destress.

Never

Regarding rejection sensitivity and ADHD, I just want to note that an apology that is accepted by the class and teacher, where the child felt understood and forgiven for losing control, could actually be GOOD for RS. One hallmark of RS is the kind of “everyone hates me, I have no friends” catastrophizing, and discussing something like an outburst, seeing if the child wants apologize, and then having the other kids listen and accept can help short circuit that kind of catastrophizing by replacing it with facts. Instead of “everyone hates me”, it’s “some people were upset when I ripped up my paper the other day, but we talked about dealing with frustration and I apologized and Ms. Larla talked about how we all get frustrated and we all shared stuff we can do when we’re frustrated.”

Like there is a pro-social way to fo this that not only doesn’t Shane but builds bonds and helps contextualuze it for the child as a mistake we can all move on from. I think people are envisioning a very shaming, rigid, forced apology situation and I don’t personally know any teachers who would handle it that way. It doesn’t seem to be what OP’s daughter describes either.

Anyway, talking things through and showing an ADHD child that people can be upset about an isolated incident but forgive and offer understanding can be preferable to handling the whole thing privately away from the rest of the class. Peer judgment is critical at this age and transparency and communication can help combat gossip and exclusion, too.

I can see how an apology to class could be helpful for the child’s social situation - it could make other kids in class more sympathetic to your DD. I think it depends so much on the teacher and specific situation whether the apology works or it was more of a punishment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heaven forbid anyone apologize for unacceptable behavior!

What kind of lesson are you teaching your child getting angry that the teacher did the exact right thing?

You don't even have her outbursts diagnosed or treated but you want the teacher to compensate when the teacher is in a room full of kids and this has already happened a few times? Wow, you're a special breed.

Wow. OP here. Most of the feedback and comments have been very, very helpful (on all sides). This PP is out of line. For the record, I did NOT KNOW that there had been several outbursts or meltdowns this year or related to that activity. I only learned of this when the teacher called to tell me about this and get my insight. And for the record I have been working to understand and have my daughter treated for delays, health issues, evaluations and more since the age of 9 months. How dare you say that I have not diagnosed or treated my child? I have been asking about medication, therapies and other treatments for years, and as I posted in my PP had been advised by both the developmental pediatrician and our regular pediatrician to hold off until we saw what the beginning of this school year looked like. I am personally medicated for ADHD and my spouse is medicated for depression and anxiety. We also have a second child with special needs who receives therapies. I have been worried about my child’s low frustration tolerance and occasional outbursts for years and have had her seen my multiple specialists and a psychologist. I have brought this up as a concern in IEP meetings, and in fact had requested a functional behavioral analysis in 2020 that was denied. I requested one again in last year’s IEP meeting and was encouraged to wait for a return to 5 day a week school and see how things went then. As far as I knew things were fine because until yesterday I hadn’t heard anything about any problems from my daughter, her teacher or any member of her IEP team. In fact, I specifically wrote to the whole team at the beginning of the year to inform them of challenges my daughter had over the summer and asking them to keep me in the loop if there were issues as I wanted to try to help her and figure out the triggers, how to suppport the teachers, and what treatments to consider.

I have much patience and understanding for many viewpoints but how dare you call me a special breed or insinuate I don’t try to treat or help or support my child.

I’m sorry OP and please ignore the trolls (I am flagging). There’s something about kids struggling with behavioral issues that just brings the knives out, especially for the moms. All I can say is I stopped caring a long time ago what people who are not my/my kid’s allies think or say.

Anyway … a lot of kids are really struggling with emotional regulation in the pandemic return to school. Can you reopen the IEP to add additional social-emotional goals? And an ASD dx really does open doors.

forgot to add - my child is also 9. I think it’s a tough tough age - they are really starting to be big kids with big problems. they are growing but get so frustrated. and 9 is not too early for some puberty emotional stuff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heaven forbid anyone apologize for unacceptable behavior!

What kind of lesson are you teaching your child getting angry that the teacher did the exact right thing?

You don't even have her outbursts diagnosed or treated but you want the teacher to compensate when the teacher is in a room full of kids and this has already happened a few times? Wow, you're a special breed.

Wow. OP here. Most of the feedback and comments have been very, very helpful (on all sides). This PP is out of line. For the record, I did NOT KNOW that there had been several outbursts or meltdowns this year or related to that activity. I only learned of this when the teacher called to tell me about this and get my insight. And for the record I have been working to understand and have my daughter treated for delays, health issues, evaluations and more since the age of 9 months. How dare you say that I have not diagnosed or treated my child? I have been asking about medication, therapies and other treatments for years, and as I posted in my PP had been advised by both the developmental pediatrician and our regular pediatrician to hold off until we saw what the beginning of this school year looked like. I am personally medicated for ADHD and my spouse is medicated for depression and anxiety. We also have a second child with special needs who receives therapies. I have been worried about my child’s low frustration tolerance and occasional outbursts for years and have had her seen my multiple specialists and a psychologist. I have brought this up as a concern in IEP meetings, and in fact had requested a functional behavioral analysis in 2020 that was denied. I requested one again in last year’s IEP meeting and was encouraged to wait for a return to 5 day a week school and see how things went then. As far as I knew things were fine because until yesterday I hadn’t heard anything about any problems from my daughter, her teacher or any member of her IEP team. In fact, I specifically wrote to the whole team at the beginning of the year to inform them of challenges my daughter had over the summer and asking them to keep me in the loop if there were issues as I wanted to try to help her and figure out the triggers, how to suppport the teachers, and what treatments to consider.

I have much patience and understanding for many viewpoints but how dare you call me a special breed or insinuate I don’t try to treat or help or support my child.

I’m sorry OP and please ignore the trolls (I am flagging). There’s something about kids struggling with behavioral issues that just brings the knives out, especially for the moms. All I can say is I stopped caring a long time ago what people who are not my/my kid’s allies think or say.

Anyway … a lot of kids are really struggling with emotional regulation in the pandemic return to school. Can you reopen the IEP to add additional social-emotional goals? And an ASD dx really does open doors.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see anything wrong with that.

I don’t either. If you scream and rip up your book then you apologize to the class.

Nine years old is actually overdue to start learning about consequences.

If your child is incapable of getting through a class without ripping up their books and yelling out then they don’t belong in a mainstream class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heaven forbid anyone apologize for unacceptable behavior!

What kind of lesson are you teaching your child getting angry that the teacher did the exact right thing?

You don't even have her outbursts diagnosed or treated but you want the teacher to compensate when the teacher is in a room full of kids and this has already happened a few times? Wow, you're a special breed.

Wow. OP here. Most of the feedback and comments have been very, very helpful (on all sides). This PP is out of line. For the record, I did NOT KNOW that there had been several outbursts or meltdowns this year or related to that activity. I only learned of this when the teacher called to tell me about this and get my insight. And for the record I have been working to understand and have my daughter treated for delays, health issues, evaluations and more since the age of 9 months. How dare you say that I have not diagnosed or treated my child? I have been asking about medication, therapies and other treatments for years, and as I posted in my PP had been advised by both the developmental pediatrician and our regular pediatrician to hold off until we saw what the beginning of this school year looked like. I am personally medicated for ADHD and my spouse is medicated for depression and anxiety. We also have a second child with special needs who receives therapies. I have been worried about my child’s low frustration tolerance and occasional outbursts for years and have had her seen my multiple specialists and a psychologist. I have brought this up as a concern in IEP meetings, and in fact had requested a functional behavioral analysis in 2020 that was denied. I requested one again in last year’s IEP meeting and was encouraged to wait for a return to 5 day a week school and see how things went then. As far as I knew things were fine because until yesterday I hadn’t heard anything about any problems from my daughter, her teacher or any member of her IEP team. In fact, I specifically wrote to the whole team at the beginning of the year to inform them of challenges my daughter had over the summer and asking them to keep me in the loop if there were issues as I wanted to try to help her and figure out the triggers, how to suppport the teachers, and what treatments to consider.

I have much patience and understanding for many viewpoints but how dare you call me a special breed or insinuate I don’t try to treat or help or support my child.

I'm sorry that you're going through this OP. I don't think a public apology is appropriate because rejection sensitivity is a hallmark of ADHD. I know my DS would have been humiliated and it would have led to school refusal and increased anxiety.

A private, positive discussion about how feelings can be managed differently would have been okay.

Anonymous wrote:Heaven forbid anyone apologize for unacceptable behavior!

What kind of lesson are you teaching your child getting angry that the teacher did the exact right thing?

You don't even have her outbursts diagnosed or treated but you want the teacher to compensate when the teacher is in a room full of kids and this has already happened a few times? Wow, you're a special breed.

Wow. OP here. Most of the feedback and comments have been very, very helpful (on all sides). This PP is out of line. For the record, I did NOT KNOW that there had been several outbursts or meltdowns this year or related to that activity. I only learned of this when the teacher called to tell me about this and get my insight. And for the record I have been working to understand and have my daughter treated for delays, health issues, evaluations and more since the age of 9 months. How dare you say that I have not diagnosed or treated my child? I have been asking about medication, therapies and other treatments for years, and as I posted in my PP had been advised by both the developmental pediatrician and our regular pediatrician to hold off until we saw what the beginning of this school year looked like. I am personally medicated for ADHD and my spouse is medicated for depression and anxiety. We also have a second child with special needs who receives therapies. I have been worried about my child’s low frustration tolerance and occasional outbursts for years and have had her seen my multiple specialists and a psychologist. I have brought this up as a concern in IEP meetings, and in fact had requested a functional behavioral analysis in 2020 that was denied. I requested one again in last year’s IEP meeting and was encouraged to wait for a return to 5 day a week school and see how things went then. As far as I knew things were fine because until yesterday I hadn’t heard anything about any problems from my daughter, her teacher or any member of her IEP team. In fact, I specifically wrote to the whole team at the beginning of the year to inform them of challenges my daughter had over the summer and asking them to keep me in the loop if there were issues as I wanted to try to help her and figure out the triggers, how to suppport the teachers, and what treatments to consider.

I have much patience and understanding for many viewpoints but how dare you call me a special breed or insinuate I don’t try to treat or help or support my child.

Heaven forbid anyone apologize for unacceptable behavior!

What kind of lesson are you teaching your child getting angry that the teacher did the exact right thing?

You don't even have her outbursts diagnosed or treated but you want the teacher to compensate when the teacher is in a room full of kids and this has already happened a few times? Wow, you're a special breed.

This is beyond messed up and makes me blood boil. My daughter feels shamed easily and I can only imagine how your daughter felt. This teacher is a real idiot. Talk to the principal. Also- really? Her actions are making a kid be unkind to her….what the f??

People are assuming they know the size and severity of this outburst and being very minimizing in their language (it was ripped paper, so what, so she shouted, no big deal, this doesn't sound traumatizing, etc.). The truth is we don't know what happened or how big or severe it was. My child has had outbursts where he might get frustrated with a project and destroy his own project -- scribble all over his sheet, throw it in the trash, get kind of loud with his frustration. Nothing directed at other kids and not something I'd expect to be more than a conversation with the teacher, especially as part of an ongoing focus on managing frustration, his perfectionism, etc.

But he's also had outbursts that have scared and stressed ME out and I'm his mother. Shouting and yelling, ranting, throwing things around. Even if just a paper and maybe a pencil or something, the extent of these outbursts can be very stressful for our family and absolutely impact other kids (and adults). They can go on for more than a minute or so and make everyone feel very tense and drained even though they are not technically violent. It is hard to be around someone expelling a lot of negative emotion.

It is impossible to know from OP's description where the behavior falls on this spectrum. One thing we know is that it has happened several times in the last few weeks. If this is a repeat behavior that might be escalating, I do think grounding the discussion of the behavior in how it might be impacting classmates is a reasonable idea. It's important to be understanding and forgiving of every child's moments of struggle. But if a student is repeatedly disrupting certain activities in a way that could stress other kids or make them just not want to engage in that activity again, that may require more than just an apology to the teacher.

My question for OP is: how is this teacher usually? Do you trust her, does she communicate well, does she seem to care about your kid and the other kids? And so on. If a teacher I liked and felt good about did this apologizing thing and my child said it was fine, I'd let it go. If it was a teacher I'd had issues with in the past, if my child was upset or appeared to feel "shamed and blamed" or if there were issues with communication about expectations and how the IEP was being implemented, I'd say something about it.

I think the instinct to say "This was no big deal, the teacher should never have done this" is not great. I think it might reflect individual PP's past negative experiences with teachers who didn't get it (we've all had them) but it's not grounded in what we actually know about this situation. I don't think we can assume the outburst was minimal and not disruptive and that the teacher was out of line. There's a broad range here.