I would not call any kid who scores well on the TJ exam, with or without prep, mediocre. The kids who are prepping are working hard to learn challenging material in order to do well on the test. That is impressive on its own. I can question if the kid is there because the kid really wants it or there because the parent really wants it but I will not question the effort and intelligence of a kid who does well on that exam.

I would imagine any kid that applied themselves to a year long prep class would apply themselves to their class work and do just fine at TJ.

I did not get how much math classes can be fun for a kid. I thought you all were crazy but this year we offered DS the choice to take AoPS classes or not. He decided to give the math a go and is loving it. I don't get it but I am not a math person. I was a history and social studies geek and loved working as a tour guide at the State House and participating in Government based programs in MS and HS so I don't know why the math class love is so foreign to me. We are actually working with some other interested families in starting a STEM Scouts program next year.

I think we can discuss admissions and test or no test without questioning the kids intelligence or ability. The conversation, for me, is identifying kids with similar intelligence and ability in underrepresented communities and providing them with the opportunity to attend TJ and shine. It would be nice if they could expand the class size at TJ to include the top 2% students from the underrepresented schools and not impact the current numbers. It sounds like TJ has the space for more students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should encourage all people to prep as much as possible for anything and everything they do. That's where excellence comes from.

Ahhhh, but what happens to the kids who can’t afford fancy prep courses and whose parents have lives of their own?

Who said you have to have fancy prep? There are many free resources available for the prep. All you need is just the willingness to put in some time.
It's like you don't have to wear fancy shoes to practice basketball. For someone who can pay, sure they can have whatever fancy. Don't claim they played better ball because they practiced in a fancy court.

You can’t compare test prep to sneakers, and you know it. You can only get so much on free prep alone, as opposed to having money to hire private tutors, private centers, have a stay at home parent, etc. Don’t forget the kids would need a way to get to the free test prep and that’s not possible if there no one available to shuttle them back and forth.

Besides all those factors, why should any child have to do test prep? It’s absurd that’s what we expect of CHILDREN.

Says the person who will spend $400/hr on SAT prep!

Ha! I am not PP but I had ZERO SAT test prep, zero, not even a book. I scored average. Friends of mine, many dull and of mediocre intelligence, had some money and paid for expensive prep courses, and like magic, they scored high and got into their first choices. Does it matter now many years later, I don’t know? I went to a state school and worked my butt off, while almost of of my old friends went to elite privates and are now attorneys. These were average, basic kids. Weird how one silly prep course can shape one’s life path, but I believe it did for these people. Amazing actually. All it proves is the rich get richer.

I also did zero SAT prep. First time I took it I got a relatively high score, but not as high as I wanted due to fatigue.

Second time, with no additional prep, I scored 100 points higher. At that point I was happy so I moved on.

Yes, there are definitely bright kids who score very high with no prep whatsoever. However, what the prep courses do is falsely bring those mediocre kids up to a level where they don’t really belong. It masks their true intelligence or lack thereof.

PP - agree completely!

Many schools had moved away from the SAT to the ACT and were starting to drop both tests before the COVID pandemic. I would expect that more schools will stop asking for SAT or ACT scores after the Pandemic. Everyone is well aware of the prep options and how the tests can be cheated. There is too much evidence that the tests are not testing what they claim to be testing and that they are easily prepared for so the scores are artificially inflated.

While there is free prep material for pretty much every test, that still requires knowledge of a program and some encouragement for most people, especially kids who are in Middle School. Realistically speaking, kids in Title I schools and near Title I schools are less likely to have knowledge that TJ exists or what they need to do to attend TJ. Their parents are likely to not be as informed or have an idea about what resources exist, free or paid.

There is a ton of anecdotal evidence and research that shows that the academic focus of Asian families, from pretty much every area of Asia, leads to parents who emphasis education, regardless of income, and seeking out opportunities for their kids. There is a long cultural history of valuing education and examples of how education, and tests, led to families changing their fortunes. This historical, cultural valuation of education seems to be unique to many Asian cultures. I am not a historian but have never had a Professor lecture on the use of merit based tests to hire people into government positions in Europe, South American, North American, or African cultures. The classes I took on Chinese History spent a lot of time discussing this subject.

There is nothing wrong with valuing education, that is a great thing. I totally get why the exam is important to folks.

What we need to do is find a way to reach out to kids in lesser performing schools and provide STEM opportunities that might engage a kid and help them decide that it makes sense to focus on school. Free after school robotics programs or coding programs that are 1-2 hours long in the ES. The parents will see them as free child care and it could help provide a more engaging introduction into STEM. Maybe have 2 days were the extra curricular are sports based and 3 days were the offerings are STEM based. Parents would have an incentive for their kids to participate, child care, and maybe it triggers some interest and drive in the kids.

Realistically, we are not going to be able to do much about this problem as long as parents are not engaged in their kids education. For many poor parents there is little time to put into their kids education because of the number of jobs being worked and other stressors. For many immigrant families, the basic education at FCPS is going to be massively better then what their kid would have received in their home country. There are systemic factors at play that are hard to fix.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should encourage all people to prep as much as possible for anything and everything they do. That's where excellence comes from.

Ahhhh, but what happens to the kids who can’t afford fancy prep courses and whose parents have lives of their own?

Who said you have to have fancy prep? There are many free resources available for the prep. All you need is just the willingness to put in some time.
It's like you don't have to wear fancy shoes to practice basketball. For someone who can pay, sure they can have whatever fancy. Don't claim they played better ball because they practiced in a fancy court.

You can’t compare test prep to sneakers, and you know it. You can only get so much on free prep alone, as opposed to having money to hire private tutors, private centers, have a stay at home parent, etc. Don’t forget the kids would need a way to get to the free test prep and that’s not possible if there no one available to shuttle them back and forth.

Besides all those factors, why should any child have to do test prep? It’s absurd that’s what we expect of CHILDREN.

Says the person who will spend $400/hr on SAT prep!

Ha! I am not PP but I had ZERO SAT test prep, zero, not even a book. I scored average. Friends of mine, many dull and of mediocre intelligence, had some money and paid for expensive prep courses, and like magic, they scored high and got into their first choices. Does it matter now many years later, I don’t know? I went to a state school and worked my butt off, while almost of of my old friends went to elite privates and are now attorneys. These were average, basic kids. Weird how one silly prep course can shape one’s life path, but I believe it did for these people. Amazing actually. All it proves is the rich get richer.

I also did zero SAT prep. First time I took it I got a relatively high score, but not as high as I wanted due to fatigue.

Second time, with no additional prep, I scored 100 points higher. At that point I was happy so I moved on.

Yes, there are definitely bright kids who score very high with no prep whatsoever. However, what the prep courses do is falsely bring those mediocre kids up to a level where they don’t really belong. It masks their true intelligence or lack thereof.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should encourage all people to prep as much as possible for anything and everything they do. That's where excellence comes from.

Ahhhh, but what happens to the kids who can’t afford fancy prep courses and whose parents have lives of their own?

Who said you have to have fancy prep? There are many free resources available for the prep. All you need is just the willingness to put in some time.
It's like you don't have to wear fancy shoes to practice basketball. For someone who can pay, sure they can have whatever fancy. Don't claim they played better ball because they practiced in a fancy court.

You can’t compare test prep to sneakers, and you know it. You can only get so much on free prep alone, as opposed to having money to hire private tutors, private centers, have a stay at home parent, etc. Don’t forget the kids would need a way to get to the free test prep and that’s not possible if there no one available to shuttle them back and forth.

Besides all those factors, why should any child have to do test prep? It’s absurd that’s what we expect of CHILDREN.

Says the person who will spend $400/hr on SAT prep!

Ha! I am not PP but I had ZERO SAT test prep, zero, not even a book. I scored average. Friends of mine, many dull and of mediocre intelligence, had some money and paid for expensive prep courses, and like magic, they scored high and got into their first choices. Does it matter now many years later, I don’t know? I went to a state school and worked my butt off, while almost of of my old friends went to elite privates and are now attorneys. These were average, basic kids. Weird how one silly prep course can shape one’s life path, but I believe it did for these people. Amazing actually. All it proves is the rich get richer.

I also did zero SAT prep. First time I took it I got a relatively high score, but not as high as I wanted due to fatigue.

Second time, with no additional prep, I scored 100 points higher. At that point I was happy so I moved on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should encourage all people to prep as much as possible for anything and everything they do. That's where excellence comes from.

Ahhhh, but what happens to the kids who can’t afford fancy prep courses and whose parents have lives of their own?

Who said you have to have fancy prep? There are many free resources available for the prep. All you need is just the willingness to put in some time.
It's like you don't have to wear fancy shoes to practice basketball. For someone who can pay, sure they can have whatever fancy. Don't claim they played better ball because they practiced in a fancy court.

You can’t compare test prep to sneakers, and you know it. You can only get so much on free prep alone, as opposed to having money to hire private tutors, private centers, have a stay at home parent, etc. Don’t forget the kids would need a way to get to the free test prep and that’s not possible if there no one available to shuttle them back and forth.

Besides all those factors, why should any child have to do test prep? It’s absurd that’s what we expect of CHILDREN.

Says the person who will spend $400/hr on SAT prep!

Ha! I am not PP but I had ZERO SAT test prep, zero, not even a book. I scored average. Friends of mine, many dull and of mediocre intelligence, had some money and paid for expensive prep courses, and like magic, they scored high and got into their first choices. Does it matter now many years later, I don’t know? I went to a state school and worked my butt off, while almost of of my old friends went to elite privates and are now attorneys. These were average, basic kids. Weird how one silly prep course can shape one’s life path, but I believe it did for these people. Amazing actually. All it proves is the rich get richer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should encourage all people to prep as much as possible for anything and everything they do. That's where excellence comes from.

Ahhhh, but what happens to the kids who can’t afford fancy prep courses and whose parents have lives of their own?

Who said you have to have fancy prep? There are many free resources available for the prep. All you need is just the willingness to put in some time.
It's like you don't have to wear fancy shoes to practice basketball. For someone who can pay, sure they can have whatever fancy. Don't claim they played better ball because they practiced in a fancy court.

You can’t compare test prep to sneakers, and you know it. You can only get so much on free prep alone, as opposed to having money to hire private tutors, private centers, have a stay at home parent, etc. Don’t forget the kids would need a way to get to the free test prep and that’s not possible if there no one available to shuttle them back and forth.

Besides all those factors, why should any child have to do test prep? It’s absurd that’s what we expect of CHILDREN.

Says the person who will spend $400/hr on SAT prep!

1) Yeah - SAT prep is crap too, which is why elite schools are running away from it as well

2) It is WAY different to ask a 16-17 year old to put in this time than it is to ask an 11-12 year old. Come on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should encourage all people to prep as much as possible for anything and everything they do. That's where excellence comes from.

Ahhhh, but what happens to the kids who can’t afford fancy prep courses and whose parents have lives of their own?

Who said you have to have fancy prep? There are many free resources available for the prep. All you need is just the willingness to put in some time.
It's like you don't have to wear fancy shoes to practice basketball. For someone who can pay, sure they can have whatever fancy. Don't claim they played better ball because they practiced in a fancy court.

You can’t compare test prep to sneakers, and you know it. You can only get so much on free prep alone, as opposed to having money to hire private tutors, private centers, have a stay at home parent, etc. Don’t forget the kids would need a way to get to the free test prep and that’s not possible if there no one available to shuttle them back and forth.

Besides all those factors, why should any child have to do test prep? It’s absurd that’s what we expect of CHILDREN.

Says the person who will spend $400/hr on SAT prep!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should encourage all people to prep as much as possible for anything and everything they do. That's where excellence comes from.

Ahhhh, but what happens to the kids who can’t afford fancy prep courses and whose parents have lives of their own?

Who said you have to have fancy prep? There are many free resources available for the prep. All you need is just the willingness to put in some time.
It's like you don't have to wear fancy shoes to practice basketball. For someone who can pay, sure they can have whatever fancy. Don't claim they played better ball because they practiced in a fancy court.

*cue racist dog whistle*

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should encourage all people to prep as much as possible for anything and everything they do. That's where excellence comes from.

Ahhhh, but what happens to the kids who can’t afford fancy prep courses and whose parents have lives of their own?

Who said you have to have fancy prep? There are many free resources available for the prep. All you need is just the willingness to put in some time.
It's like you don't have to wear fancy shoes to practice basketball. For someone who can pay, sure they can have whatever fancy. Don't claim they played better ball because they practiced in a fancy court.

You can’t compare test prep to sneakers, and you know it. You can only get so much on free prep alone, as opposed to having money to hire private tutors, private centers, have a stay at home parent, etc. Don’t forget the kids would need a way to get to the free test prep and that’s not possible if there no one available to shuttle them back and forth.

Besides all those factors, why should any child have to do test prep? It’s absurd that’s what we expect of CHILDREN.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should encourage all people to prep as much as possible for anything and everything they do. That's where excellence comes from.

Ahhhh, but what happens to the kids who can’t afford fancy prep courses and whose parents have lives of their own?

Who said you have to have fancy prep? There are many free resources available for the prep. All you need is just the willingness to put in some time.
It's like you don't have to wear fancy shoes to practice basketball. For someone who can pay, sure they can have whatever fancy. Don't claim they played better ball because they practiced in a fancy court.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Also east asian intelligence is not disputed. This is one of the least contraversal things out there.

East Asian, sure. However, Indians are not part of this cohort, and there is plenty of evidence for below average intelligence for Indians, at least in India.
It is possible that Indian immigrants have higher intelligence, and their kids would maintain that for a generation or two.

That is precisely why I made the distinction. I agree the south asian cohort in the usa is likely not representative of the worldwide south asian population.

So the East Asian cohort in the US is representative of the EA population as a whole but the South Asian population is not? Explain that logic to me? Do they get a brain transplant once they reach Ellis Island..

How come Indians in the US run circles around you (i.e. East Asians in the USA) in all walks of life - Business (e.g. Silicon Valley management), Wall Street, Hollywood, Medicine, Higher Ed (both teaching and management)?

I'm sure you are the same person that commented about the IQ differences between East Asians and Whites.. sigh. How come the Whites have you (i.e. the East Asians in East Asia) bent over a barrel for generations and continue to do so even today with no end in sight and the mightiest of your countries resorts to thievery to get ahead? Most of your countries are still "suppliers" to White countries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop asian hate, hardwork, studying and intelligence is asian culture

This attitude is rightly called Asian supremacy. You don’t have a monopoly on hard work or studying and CERTAINLY not on intelligence. Disgusting attitude.

Monopoly, no, but school in east asia is typically 6 days a week. Many of us here in he USA have our kids go to school in Saturdays no matter the family income. If you don't think that's part of our culture or it effects how our kids learn I don't know what to tell you.

Also east asian intelligence is not disputed. This is one of the least contraversal things out there.

Anything can be part of your culture. Where you are unbelievably backwards is in assuming that other cultures don’t share in prioritizing hard work, dedication, and intellect.

Do they?

Not every culture prioritizes the same thing. This is one of the reasons kids should study history. Geography is an interesting subject and if you study geography you can see how it effected cultures.

*Affected cultures. Affected* Go study grammar.

Sorry I grew up in China, went to college in Japan, and english is my third language.

I didn't speak english on a daily basis until us grad school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Also east asian intelligence is not disputed. This is one of the least contraversal things out there.

East Asian, sure. However, Indians are not part of this cohort, and there is plenty of evidence for below average intelligence for Indians, at least in India.
It is possible that Indian immigrants have higher intelligence, and their kids would maintain that for a generation or two.

That is precisely why I made the distinction. I agree the south asian cohort in the usa is likely not representative of the worldwide south asian population.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop asian hate, hardwork, studying and intelligence is asian culture

This attitude is rightly called Asian supremacy. You don’t have a monopoly on hard work or studying and CERTAINLY not on intelligence. Disgusting attitude.

Monopoly, no, but school in east asia is typically 6 days a week. Many of us here in he USA have our kids go to school in Saturdays no matter the family income. If you don't think that's part of our culture or it effects how our kids learn I don't know what to tell you.

Also east asian intelligence is not disputed. This is one of the least contraversal things out there.

By far the dumbest thing I heard over the last one year. Anyone who holds such views must be very very stupid. So stupid, there is not point in any discussion with you.

I feel sorry for your kids for having such a racist, retarded parent.

-Asian

have you seen the east asian intelligence distribution?

The interesting thing is it persists in cross racial adoptions and east asian populations in europe, australia and both america.

People who are educated in the subject know this, just like the white and black gap, there is an easy asian and white gap as well.

Who cares about IQ? Some of the most successful people aren’t geniuses. They are average intelligence but work extremely hard or are simply lucky. Better to be lucky than good as they say.

The average iq of a population is arguably more important than those at the high or low end for the society as a whole.

Bone the less intelligence involves the ability to reason, plan for the future, understand consequences x comprehend complex ideas and learn from experience.

It's not just merely book learning or test taking smarts. It reflects a broader ability to comprehend your surroundings and figuring out what to do.

This is important for a society as a whole, as it allows us to maintain complex infrastructure. Likewise it highly correlates to life outcomes, after all you can better for see the consequences of your actions. Back home we have multigenerational plans, much like how europeans took on projects that took centuries for completion for infrastructure projects . Small differences multiply over the years to create large societal differences.