Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am honestly shocked to see how heated this thread has become. We redshirted our late summer neurotypical child because we moved cross country in the summer DC turned 5. With both parents working long hours w/t the option of work from home, we needed to put DC in before and after school care. Moving into a new state means we were late to sign up for SACC. Redshirting DC bought us time to get into the program. On the contrary to what some said that redshirting is a strategy for privileged parents, we needed to stay double income the decision helped us to both remain employed full time.

DC does seem slightly more mature than the on-time classmates but DC isn’t in any particular sport (we don’t really push for that) and academic wise, DC is thriving in a way that DC enjoys school. We never regret redshirting DC, and at the same time, I am surprised by all the controversy surrounding this.

You….held your kid back to get into sacc??so disadvantaged your kid AND paid for a whole extra year of daycare?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

Exactly.

And? The opposite is also true— there are some circumstances where a September birthday kid with SN DESPERATELY needs to be in school! Again, kids need to go for all different reasons and not all of them are obvious to outsiders.

The bottom line is the parents need to make this choice. Not random angry people on the internet.

Your choices impact others. 5 year olds in k with 6-7 year olds creates inappropriate expectations as expectations are set for older kids when it should be set for a five year old. It’s not healthy for any of the kids to be with a huge age range.

My choices are intended to be best for *my kid*. I trust that you will also be making the best choice for your kid. It may be that means redshirting, it may mean supplemental material so your kid doesn’t fall behind, it may just mean talking to your kid about how all through school we will meet people of different ages and we always have to do *our* best.

The point of having grades is to have kids with same age peers. If your kid needs extra help, you get it vs. holding back. You cannot say how smart and mature your child is when they are not in the proper grade and with kids 1-2 years younger. They are less mature if you base it appropriately on age. And, if you have a 3 year age gap in a class of kids taking algebra, for example and yours is the oldest, but in the same grade, they are not the smartest as they are older, the youngest would be the smartest. You cannot change IQ.

My kid is barely two weeks older than a “on time” kid.

That two weeks bothers you more than the idea of sending a four year old to be in a developmentally inappropriate environment. That? Is why you don’t get to make decisions for my kid, and I do.

I sent mine. The two weeks makes no difference. The year or two between the kids does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am honestly shocked to see how heated this thread has become. We redshirted our late summer neurotypical child because we moved cross country in the summer DC turned 5. With both parents working long hours w/t the option of work from home, we needed to put DC in before and after school care. Moving into a new state means we were late to sign up for SACC. Redshirting DC bought us time to get into the program. On the contrary to what some said that redshirting is a strategy for privileged parents, we needed to stay double income the decision helped us to both remain employed full time.

DC does seem slightly more mature than the on-time classmates but DC isn’t in any particular sport (we don’t really push for that) and academic wise, DC is thriving in a way that DC enjoys school. We never regret redshirting DC, and at the same time, I am surprised by all the controversy surrounding this.

You….held your kid back to get into sacc??so disadvantaged your kid AND paid for a whole extra year of daycare?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Anonymous wrote:I am honestly shocked to see how heated this thread has become. We redshirted our late summer neurotypical child because we moved cross country in the summer DC turned 5. With both parents working long hours w/t the option of work from home, we needed to put DC in before and after school care. Moving into a new state means we were late to sign up for SACC. Redshirting DC bought us time to get into the program. On the contrary to what some said that redshirting is a strategy for privileged parents, we needed to stay double income the decision helped us to both remain employed full time.

DC does seem slightly more mature than the on-time classmates but DC isn’t in any particular sport (we don’t really push for that) and academic wise, DC is thriving in a way that DC enjoys school. We never regret redshirting DC, and at the same time, I am surprised by all the controversy surrounding this.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

That's *your* interpretation. That's what *you* want to believe and it is a rather extreme interpretation of everything I've posted here. But if it serves you to hate me, knock yourself out. Just don't make throwaway statements about conditions you have zero experience with to justify redshirting for other reasons. I actually could not care less whether parents redshirt their kids. Sorry if that is hard for you to process.

PP here and my kid has ASD and had selective mutism in PK and K. We didn't redshirt, but my experiences as a SN parent have taught me to mind my own freaking business when it comes to how other parents of SN kids make choices for their kids. If I encountered a redshirted kid with SNs, I would assume those parents made the choice that made the most sense for their kid, in consultation with the school and the child's doctors and therapists. I also know that sometimes there's no "right" answer and you have to follow your gut.

You are sitting here arguing with everyone on the thread for no reason. I'm not even super into redshirting -- I actually agree with OP that there should be some limitations on it. But I don't sit around judging parents who are just trying to do their best for their kids.

DP, also a parent of a kid with SN who didn’t redshirt (but received mixed professional recommendations on whether to do it, and considered it). That PP was terribly raised, I think, and never heard the word “no.” She therefore elevates her quite ignorant personal opinions over the recommendations of professionals, because she thinks she knows better than all other parents and their professional advisors. It’s wild.

What professional recommendations? Zero people here have shared that a professional recommended redshirting for selective mutism. They know of therapists that recommended redshirting for other conditions and tried to imply it was for selective mutism.

Did you or did you not state that redshirting should not be used/recommended for selective mutism, full stop? Because as someone else pointed out, that is a shockingly broad and black-and-white statement, which you doubled down on defending.

It’s not hard to see you as a badly-raised narcissist when you think you can speak for all children with selective mutism in all situations across the entire world.

Sorry (not sorry) I shared my opinion about whether redshirting is helpful for selective mutism?

What is funny is you are so mad I have an opinion about this but there's zero evidence professionals even recommend this. How dare I point that out lol Redshirting is not a treatment for selective mutism.

Now share your professional credentials and where you’re licensed to practice.

I was pretty transparent that I'm not an expert, just a parent with experience. Much more transparent than many folks trying to use selective mutism as some kind of smokescreen.

The desperation to take me down is pretty entertaining, not going to lie.

Nobody is trying to “take you down.” What ridiculous drama. Only a narcissist with a persecution complex would immediately jump to that conclusion. But we already know you are a narcissist.

Anonymous wrote:My nephew was red-shirted because my SIL thought it would put him in a better position for football down the line. (She's one of those people who got a sports scholarship to a no-name school who thinks sports scholarships are the only way to get into college.) Kid's 18 now and has never played a team sport except for one year in elementary where they forced him to be on a rec soccer team.

Man plans, God laughs.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

Exactly.

And? The opposite is also true— there are some circumstances where a September birthday kid with SN DESPERATELY needs to be in school! Again, kids need to go for all different reasons and not all of them are obvious to outsiders.

The bottom line is the parents need to make this choice. Not random angry people on the internet.

Your choices impact others. 5 year olds in k with 6-7 year olds creates inappropriate expectations as expectations are set for older kids when it should be set for a five year old. It’s not healthy for any of the kids to be with a huge age range.

My choices are intended to be best for *my kid*. I trust that you will also be making the best choice for your kid. It may be that means redshirting, it may mean supplemental material so your kid doesn’t fall behind, it may just mean talking to your kid about how all through school we will meet people of different ages and we always have to do *our* best.

The point of having grades is to have kids with same age peers. If your kid needs extra help, you get it vs. holding back. You cannot say how smart and mature your child is when they are not in the proper grade and with kids 1-2 years younger. They are less mature if you base it appropriately on age. And, if you have a 3 year age gap in a class of kids taking algebra, for example and yours is the oldest, but in the same grade, they are not the smartest as they are older, the youngest would be the smartest. You cannot change IQ.

My kid is barely two weeks older than a “on time” kid.

That two weeks bothers you more than the idea of sending a four year old to be in a developmentally inappropriate environment. That? Is why you don’t get to make decisions for my kid, and I do.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

That's *your* interpretation. That's what *you* want to believe and it is a rather extreme interpretation of everything I've posted here. But if it serves you to hate me, knock yourself out. Just don't make throwaway statements about conditions you have zero experience with to justify redshirting for other reasons. I actually could not care less whether parents redshirt their kids. Sorry if that is hard for you to process.

PP here and my kid has ASD and had selective mutism in PK and K. We didn't redshirt, but my experiences as a SN parent have taught me to mind my own freaking business when it comes to how other parents of SN kids make choices for their kids. If I encountered a redshirted kid with SNs, I would assume those parents made the choice that made the most sense for their kid, in consultation with the school and the child's doctors and therapists. I also know that sometimes there's no "right" answer and you have to follow your gut.

You are sitting here arguing with everyone on the thread for no reason. I'm not even super into redshirting -- I actually agree with OP that there should be some limitations on it. But I don't sit around judging parents who are just trying to do their best for their kids.

DP, also a parent of a kid with SN who didn’t redshirt (but received mixed professional recommendations on whether to do it, and considered it). That PP was terribly raised, I think, and never heard the word “no.” She therefore elevates her quite ignorant personal opinions over the recommendations of professionals, because she thinks she knows better than all other parents and their professional advisors. It’s wild.

What professional recommendations? Zero people here have shared that a professional recommended redshirting for selective mutism. They know of therapists that recommended redshirting for other conditions and tried to imply it was for selective mutism.

Did you or did you not state that redshirting should not be used/recommended for selective mutism, full stop? Because as someone else pointed out, that is a shockingly broad and black-and-white statement, which you doubled down on defending.

It’s not hard to see you as a badly-raised narcissist when you think you can speak for all children with selective mutism in all situations across the entire world.

Sorry (not sorry) I shared my opinion about whether redshirting is helpful for selective mutism?

What is funny is you are so mad I have an opinion about this but there's zero evidence professionals even recommend this. How dare I point that out lol Redshirting is not a treatment for selective mutism.

Now share your professional credentials and where you’re licensed to practice.

I was pretty transparent that I'm not an expert, just a parent with experience. Much more transparent than many folks trying to use selective mutism as some kind of smokescreen.

The desperation to take me down is pretty entertaining, not going to lie.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

Exactly.

And? The opposite is also true— there are some circumstances where a September birthday kid with SN DESPERATELY needs to be in school! Again, kids need to go for all different reasons and not all of them are obvious to outsiders.

The bottom line is the parents need to make this choice. Not random angry people on the internet.

Your choices impact others. 5 year olds in k with 6-7 year olds creates inappropriate expectations as expectations are set for older kids when it should be set for a five year old. It’s not healthy for any of the kids to be with a huge age range.

My choices are intended to be best for *my kid*. I trust that you will also be making the best choice for your kid. It may be that means redshirting, it may mean supplemental material so your kid doesn’t fall behind, it may just mean talking to your kid about how all through school we will meet people of different ages and we always have to do *our* best.

The point of having grades is to have kids with same age peers. If your kid needs extra help, you get it vs. holding back. You cannot say how smart and mature your child is when they are not in the proper grade and with kids 1-2 years younger. They are less mature if you base it appropriately on age. And, if you have a 3 year age gap in a class of kids taking algebra, for example and yours is the oldest, but in the same grade, they are not the smartest as they are older, the youngest would be the smartest. You cannot change IQ.

I think this is true and it's especially obnoxious when the parents brag about it. My kid is going into 5th and just turned 10. He is into Pokemon, riding his bike, imaginative play, making his own comics. His friends are closer to his age (new 10 year olds.) There is a cohort of boys in his grade who have been 11 for a while and they are into teen-type stuff which i wont detail. But when one of those moms says to me "Larlo and his group of friends are so emotionally mature! (Your son) might be a late bloomer" I'm like no, he's just a lot younger.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

That's *your* interpretation. That's what *you* want to believe and it is a rather extreme interpretation of everything I've posted here. But if it serves you to hate me, knock yourself out. Just don't make throwaway statements about conditions you have zero experience with to justify redshirting for other reasons. I actually could not care less whether parents redshirt their kids. Sorry if that is hard for you to process.

PP here and my kid has ASD and had selective mutism in PK and K. We didn't redshirt, but my experiences as a SN parent have taught me to mind my own freaking business when it comes to how other parents of SN kids make choices for their kids. If I encountered a redshirted kid with SNs, I would assume those parents made the choice that made the most sense for their kid, in consultation with the school and the child's doctors and therapists. I also know that sometimes there's no "right" answer and you have to follow your gut.

You are sitting here arguing with everyone on the thread for no reason. I'm not even super into redshirting -- I actually agree with OP that there should be some limitations on it. But I don't sit around judging parents who are just trying to do their best for their kids.

DP, also a parent of a kid with SN who didn’t redshirt (but received mixed professional recommendations on whether to do it, and considered it). That PP was terribly raised, I think, and never heard the word “no.” She therefore elevates her quite ignorant personal opinions over the recommendations of professionals, because she thinks she knows better than all other parents and their professional advisors. It’s wild.

What professional recommendations? Zero people here have shared that a professional recommended redshirting for selective mutism. They know of therapists that recommended redshirting for other conditions and tried to imply it was for selective mutism.

Did you or did you not state that redshirting should not be used/recommended for selective mutism, full stop? Because as someone else pointed out, that is a shockingly broad and black-and-white statement, which you doubled down on defending.

It’s not hard to see you as a badly-raised narcissist when you think you can speak for all children with selective mutism in all situations across the entire world.

Sorry (not sorry) I shared my opinion about whether redshirting is helpful for selective mutism?

What is funny is you are so mad I have an opinion about this but there's zero evidence professionals even recommend this. How dare I point that out lol Redshirting is not a treatment for selective mutism.

Now share your professional credentials and where you’re licensed to practice.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

That's *your* interpretation. That's what *you* want to believe and it is a rather extreme interpretation of everything I've posted here. But if it serves you to hate me, knock yourself out. Just don't make throwaway statements about conditions you have zero experience with to justify redshirting for other reasons. I actually could not care less whether parents redshirt their kids. Sorry if that is hard for you to process.

PP here and my kid has ASD and had selective mutism in PK and K. We didn't redshirt, but my experiences as a SN parent have taught me to mind my own freaking business when it comes to how other parents of SN kids make choices for their kids. If I encountered a redshirted kid with SNs, I would assume those parents made the choice that made the most sense for their kid, in consultation with the school and the child's doctors and therapists. I also know that sometimes there's no "right" answer and you have to follow your gut.

You are sitting here arguing with everyone on the thread for no reason. I'm not even super into redshirting -- I actually agree with OP that there should be some limitations on it. But I don't sit around judging parents who are just trying to do their best for their kids.

Your mistake is reading my posts as criticizing redshirting parents. That's something that you want to see in my posts even though it is not there. I'm glad I provided you the opportunity to fight with someone tonight and got to feel all self righteous but defending all the SN families I'm not attacking.

Aren’t you the poster who states that no child with selective mutism should ever be redshirted, regardless of what their individual professional medical advisors say? That you believe you are some sort of disturbed white knight who can speak for all situations involving selective mutism, and believe your opinion so important that you want your words preserved on DCUM for eternity on the off-chance a parent with a child with selective mutism searches for information about redshirting? That you believe you know better what is best for a child with selective mutism than their own parents and doctors?

Do you know how utterly crazy you sound?

I said I don't think redshirting should be recommended for selective mutism. I shouldn't be especially not by randos on DCUM. Kids with selective mutism very often have co-occurring issues and if a therapist recommended that kid be redshirted, I certainly wouldn't tell that parent otherwise.

To me it is hilarious how you are so determined to see me as a the bad guy so many posts claim I said things I definitely did not say.

No one on this thread has *recommended* redshirting for kids with selective mutism. I'm the one who originally brought it up (because my kid had it) and what I said was that even though we did not redshirt, I would not judge a family who did.

Which is all anyone on the thread is saying -- that kids with SNs may need special consideration and we're not going to tell any other family what they must or must not do with regards to redshirting because we know it's hard and there may be many factors at play.

You are the only one issuing commands to anyone.

+1

That PP is an example of why so many of us who did not redshirt ourselves dislike DCUM’s anti-redshirters.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

Exactly.

And? The opposite is also true— there are some circumstances where a September birthday kid with SN DESPERATELY needs to be in school! Again, kids need to go for all different reasons and not all of them are obvious to outsiders.

The bottom line is the parents need to make this choice. Not random angry people on the internet.

Your choices impact others. 5 year olds in k with 6-7 year olds creates inappropriate expectations as expectations are set for older kids when it should be set for a five year old. It’s not healthy for any of the kids to be with a huge age range.

My choices are intended to be best for *my kid*. I trust that you will also be making the best choice for your kid. It may be that means redshirting, it may mean supplemental material so your kid doesn’t fall behind, it may just mean talking to your kid about how all through school we will meet people of different ages and we always have to do *our* best.

The point of having grades is to have kids with same age peers. If your kid needs extra help, you get it vs. holding back. You cannot say how smart and mature your child is when they are not in the proper grade and with kids 1-2 years younger. They are less mature if you base it appropriately on age. And, if you have a 3 year age gap in a class of kids taking algebra, for example and yours is the oldest, but in the same grade, they are not the smartest as they are older, the youngest would be the smartest. You cannot change IQ.

My kid is barely two weeks older than a “on time” kid.

That two weeks bothers you more than the idea of sending a four year old to be in a developmentally inappropriate environment. That? Is why you don’t get to make decisions for my kid, and I do.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

That's *your* interpretation. That's what *you* want to believe and it is a rather extreme interpretation of everything I've posted here. But if it serves you to hate me, knock yourself out. Just don't make throwaway statements about conditions you have zero experience with to justify redshirting for other reasons. I actually could not care less whether parents redshirt their kids. Sorry if that is hard for you to process.

PP here and my kid has ASD and had selective mutism in PK and K. We didn't redshirt, but my experiences as a SN parent have taught me to mind my own freaking business when it comes to how other parents of SN kids make choices for their kids. If I encountered a redshirted kid with SNs, I would assume those parents made the choice that made the most sense for their kid, in consultation with the school and the child's doctors and therapists. I also know that sometimes there's no "right" answer and you have to follow your gut.

You are sitting here arguing with everyone on the thread for no reason. I'm not even super into redshirting -- I actually agree with OP that there should be some limitations on it. But I don't sit around judging parents who are just trying to do their best for their kids.

Your mistake is reading my posts as criticizing redshirting parents. That's something that you want to see in my posts even though it is not there. I'm glad I provided you the opportunity to fight with someone tonight and got to feel all self righteous but defending all the SN families I'm not attacking.

Aren’t you the poster who states that no child with selective mutism should ever be redshirted, regardless of what their individual professional medical advisors say? That you believe you are some sort of disturbed white knight who can speak for all situations involving selective mutism, and believe your opinion so important that you want your words preserved on DCUM for eternity on the off-chance a parent with a child with selective mutism searches for information about redshirting? That you believe you know better what is best for a child with selective mutism than their own parents and doctors?

Do you know how utterly crazy you sound?

I said I don't think redshirting should be recommended for selective mutism. I shouldn't be especially not by randos on DCUM. Kids with selective mutism very often have co-occurring issues and if a therapist recommended that kid be redshirted, I certainly wouldn't tell that parent otherwise.

To me it is hilarious how you are so determined to see me as a the bad guy so many posts claim I said things I definitely did not say.

No one on this thread has *recommended* redshirting for kids with selective mutism. I'm the one who originally brought it up (because my kid had it) and what I said was that even though we did not redshirt, I would not judge a family who did.

Which is all anyone on the thread is saying -- that kids with SNs may need special consideration and we're not going to tell any other family what they must or must not do with regards to redshirting because we know it's hard and there may be many factors at play.

You are the only one issuing commands to anyone.