Anonymous wrote:So I went to an event at my daughter’s school last night. I was talking to some parents about how strange it will be for our kids to be heading off to college in a few months. The discussion then transitions to summer vacations plans etc. I leave the group to chat with someone else. Apparently, one of the parent’s starts trashing my kid. I was told this by a close friend who heard the conversation. She was angry about my kid getting into a top 10 school that her kid was rejected from. The parent spewed out all amazing things her kid did. There was no way my kid could match that. How would this parent have any idea about my kid’s qualifications? Initially, I was angry but in the end I felt sorry for this person. I’m glad the school year is almost over. Something that should be exciting has become toxic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Class ‘24 parent her. This thread has generated so many comments because it taps into a lot of our anxieties, stress, confusion and frustration over a process that unfortunately, is too intertwined with our personal/collective insecurities and aspirations. Many of us can relate to this thread because we all know someone or know of someone who “had high stats and did all the right things” and was still rejected at a lot of top schools. The problem isn’t going to get fixed with Supreme Court decisions, SAT tutors or high priced college counselors. It has to start at the parent level. We parents created the market for this craziness by paying for Kumon, elite sports camps, private college counselors, pay-to-play programs. Kids are jumping through all these hoops because we as parents have certain hopes and aspirations for them. I’m glad I was warned early on that my high stats kid was likely to be rejected by T-25 schools. It’s not the easiest pill to swallow for many of us who were easily accepted into these same top schools with B’s, limited extracurricular involvement, and few AP’s (and no non-profits or research back then!). However, being warned before hand was a blessing because it forced me to recalibrate expectations early on and focus more on fit and admissibility over prestige for my kid. Another great thing was seeing the examples set by top students from our local area who showed little or no interest in T-25 or WASP schools. They opted for our state flagship, service academies, less selective schools with prestigious niche programs, etc. There’s a big world of opportunity out there, and maybe if we parents start placing less importance on prestige schools and stop feeding the market for them, for this madness might abate.

These posts always get me to chuckle. You are just trying to get other parents to give up in order to give your kid an edge

The colleges created this problem by having opaque admissions with moving targets. They can fix it by laying out exact criteria for students to meet in order to gain acceptance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Class ‘24 parent her. This thread has generated so many comments because it taps into a lot of our anxieties, stress, confusion and frustration over a process that unfortunately, is too intertwined with our personal/collective insecurities and aspirations. Many of us can relate to this thread because we all know someone or know of someone who “had high stats and did all the right things” and was still rejected at a lot of top schools. The problem isn’t going to get fixed with Supreme Court decisions, SAT tutors or high priced college counselors. It has to start at the parent level. We parents created the market for this craziness by paying for Kumon, elite sports camps, private college counselors, pay-to-play programs. Kids are jumping through all these hoops because we as parents have certain hopes and aspirations for them. I’m glad I was warned early on that my high stats kid was likely to be rejected by T-25 schools. It’s not the easiest pill to swallow for many of us who were easily accepted into these same top schools with B’s, limited extracurricular involvement, and few AP’s (and no non-profits or research back then!). However, being warned before hand was a blessing because it forced me to recalibrate expectations early on and focus more on fit and admissibility over prestige for my kid. Another great thing was seeing the examples set by top students from our local area who showed little or no interest in T-25 or WASP schools. They opted for our state flagship, service academies, less selective schools with prestigious niche programs, etc. There’s a big world of opportunity out there, and maybe if we parents start placing less importance on prestige schools and stop feeding the market for them, for this madness might abate.

These posts always get me to chuckle. You are just trying to get other parents to give up in order to give your kid an edge

The colleges created this problem by having opaque admissions with moving targets. They can fix it by laying out exact criteria for students to meet in order to gain acceptance.

Anonymous wrote:Class ‘24 parent her. This thread has generated so many comments because it taps into a lot of our anxieties, stress, confusion and frustration over a process that unfortunately, is too intertwined with our personal/collective insecurities and aspirations. Many of us can relate to this thread because we all know someone or know of someone who “had high stats and did all the right things” and was still rejected at a lot of top schools. The problem isn’t going to get fixed with Supreme Court decisions, SAT tutors or high priced college counselors. It has to start at the parent level. We parents created the market for this craziness by paying for Kumon, elite sports camps, private college counselors, pay-to-play programs. Kids are jumping through all these hoops because we as parents have certain hopes and aspirations for them. I’m glad I was warned early on that my high stats kid was likely to be rejected by T-25 schools. It’s not the easiest pill to swallow for many of us who were easily accepted into these same top schools with B’s, limited extracurricular involvement, and few AP’s (and no non-profits or research back then!). However, being warned before hand was a blessing because it forced me to recalibrate expectations early on and focus more on fit and admissibility over prestige for my kid. Another great thing was seeing the examples set by top students from our local area who showed little or no interest in T-25 or WASP schools. They opted for our state flagship, service academies, less selective schools with prestigious niche programs, etc. There’s a big world of opportunity out there, and maybe if we parents start placing less importance on prestige schools and stop feeding the market for them, for this madness might abate.

Anonymous wrote:Class ‘24 parent her. This thread has generated so many comments because it taps into a lot of our anxieties, stress, confusion and frustration over a process that unfortunately, is too intertwined with our personal/collective insecurities and aspirations. Many of us can relate to this thread because we all know someone or know of someone who “had high stats and did all the right things” and was still rejected at a lot of top schools. The problem isn’t going to get fixed with Supreme Court decisions, SAT tutors or high priced college counselors. It has to start at the parent level. We parents created the market for this craziness by paying for Kumon, elite sports camps, private college counselors, pay-to-play programs. Kids are jumping through all these hoops because we as parents have certain hopes and aspirations for them. I’m glad I was warned early on that my high stats kid was likely to be rejected by T-25 schools. It’s not the easiest pill to swallow for many of us who were easily accepted into these same top schools with B’s, limited extracurricular involvement, and few AP’s (and no non-profits or research back then!). However, being warned before hand was a blessing because it forced me to recalibrate expectations early on and focus more on fit and admissibility over prestige for my kid. Another great thing was seeing the examples set by top students from our local area who showed little or no interest in T-25 or WASP schools. They opted for our state flagship, service academies, less selective schools with prestigious niche programs, etc. There’s a big world of opportunity out there, and maybe if we parents start placing less importance on prestige schools and stop feeding the market for them, for this madness might abate.

Anonymous wrote:Class ‘24 parent her. This thread has generated so many comments because it taps into a lot of our anxieties, stress, confusion and frustration over a process that unfortunately, is too intertwined with our personal/collective insecurities and aspirations. Many of us can relate to this thread because we all know someone or know of someone who “had high stats and did all the right things” and was still rejected at a lot of top schools. The problem isn’t going to get fixed with Supreme Court decisions, SAT tutors or high priced college counselors. It has to start at the parent level. We parents created the market for this craziness by paying for Kumon, elite sports camps, private college counselors, pay-to-play programs. Kids are jumping through all these hoops because we as parents have certain hopes and aspirations for them. I’m glad I was warned early on that my high stats kid was likely to be rejected by T-25 schools. It’s not the easiest pill to swallow for many of us who were easily accepted into these same top schools with B’s, limited extracurricular involvement, and few AP’s (and no non-profits or research back then!). However, being warned before hand was a blessing because it forced me to recalibrate expectations early on and focus more on fit and admissibility over prestige for my kid. Another great thing was seeing the examples set by top students from our local area who showed little or no interest in T-25 or WASP schools. They opted for our state flagship, service academies, less selective schools with prestigious niche programs, etc. There’s a big world of opportunity out there, and maybe if we parents start placing less importance on prestige schools and stop feeding the market for them, for this madness might abate.

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Anonymous wrote:I smell a 🧌

Do you think her profile is too "basic"? She says she regrets not picking more creative ECs, although I think her ECs were perfectly suited for her major + demonstrated her passion.

Yeah, I agree there is nothing that stands out in her ECs.

ECs:
not impressive: - A few regional awards (STEM)
Actually good: - 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
everyone has one: - Founder of non-profit
this year AOs don't like research for some reason: - Research w/ prof at T30
everyone has one: - Competitive summer program for BME
everyone has this: - Lots of community service

This year I heard Stanford retracted an acceptance because the applicant lied about volunteer hours.
Are those 200 volunteer hours @ local hospital registered with the school?

Yes, she made sure that everything was registered. I'm assuming the more "basic" ECs were the factor harming her application?

No, it's just a bizarre system that makes kids do these things. In other countries kids don't have to do these admissions acrobatics.

No, other countries instead track kids around age 11/12 (or earlier). You are tracked at this age, based on a one day test. Do well, you can be on tract for pre-med/stem/engineering. Do okay, and you can focus on humanities and social sciences (non stem), do worse, and you won't be tracked for much college at all. And without $$$$$$ it is damn near impossible to get off those tracks.
So yeah, I 1000% prefer what we have, where a kid can grow academically after 5th/6th grade and still decide to be an engineer or a doctor after age 12.

Nah. You can pretty much tell where a kid should be by the end of 6th grade. Pretending that kids can “grow” after that is a waste of everyone’s time and of public resources.

This is so un-American!
I am an immigrant from Asia. What attracts us so much about America is precisely that, as long as you work hard, you always have another opportunity.
Tiger parents often pushed kids hard in their childhood, then the kids lost motivation once they left home.

America doesn’t do everything right. The education system is a perfect example of this! It is a huge waste of time, money, and effort to try and get every kid to go to college. Many kids should be put on a vocational track in high school, as many countries do.

Could not agree more. Open enrollment in Honors and AP classes at our public HS has been an unmitigated disaster for the kids who actually deserve to be there. Tons of kids are literally flunking. It should not even be possible to flunk an AP class. It means someone screwed up somewhere.

Yes, I agree open enrollment into AP courses should not be allowed. Kids should be required to at minimum get a B or better in the honors/honor equivalent course the prior year or an B+ or better in a regular course. But many do allow open enrollment because it means less work for the overworked staff and teachers, it means they don't have to deal with nasty pushy parents who want "my kid belongs in AP X or Honors X, I don't care that they got a C in regular X this year" This way with open enrollment, any failures are totally on the parents/student.

DP. I completely disagree. How does someone else's kid potentially doing badly in an AP affect you or your kid? EVERY student should have the opportunity to excel, and most do. And if they do badly or fail, then it is indeed on them/their parents - no one else is affected.

Except the rest of the students in an AP class where the teacher is spending way too much time trying to help those failing kids. What a waste of everyone’s time, including the kids who could be learning a lot more in a class appropriate for their level.

That doesn't happen in high school. In AP classes, all kids are expected to keep up. If they don't, the teacher will counsel them to drop down a level. What you're describing is an elementary school situation.

From an actual APUSH teacher in an open enrollment high school classroom, not elementary:

Any attempt to have reading or proper homework assignments done is typically met with massive failures. Because of this, I can't get through material as fast as I would like, and we only get up to barely talking about the Cold War when it's already exam time.

Do you really think that kids who can’t keep up aren’t going to affect teacher workload and the pace of the class, especially if there are several of these kids in the class? Pressure on the teacher from admin and parents can be brutal.

Anonymous wrote:OP, there are so many applicants out there with stats better than your DD’s still get rejected from T20s. These kids will often have a competitive sport w national appoints/standing or an outstanding musical talent in addition to everything on your DD’s list. It is naive for you to be so sure of your DD’s chance during these crazy admission cycles. You are doing your DD a disservice by not helping her set the right expectation going into the admission roulette.

Do your DD a favor by being excited about the schools who appreciate her talent. Do your homework with her on which one offers the best fit!!!

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I smell a 🧌

Do you think her profile is too "basic"? She says she regrets not picking more creative ECs, although I think her ECs were perfectly suited for her major + demonstrated her passion.

Yeah, I agree there is nothing that stands out in her ECs.

ECs:
not impressive: - A few regional awards (STEM)
Actually good: - 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
everyone has one: - Founder of non-profit
this year AOs don't like research for some reason: - Research w/ prof at T30
everyone has one: - Competitive summer program for BME
everyone has this: - Lots of community service

This year I heard Stanford retracted an acceptance because the applicant lied about volunteer hours.
Are those 200 volunteer hours @ local hospital registered with the school?

Yes, she made sure that everything was registered. I'm assuming the more "basic" ECs were the factor harming her application?

No, it's just a bizarre system that makes kids do these things. In other countries kids don't have to do these admissions acrobatics.

No, other countries instead track kids around age 11/12 (or earlier). You are tracked at this age, based on a one day test. Do well, you can be on tract for pre-med/stem/engineering. Do okay, and you can focus on humanities and social sciences (non stem), do worse, and you won't be tracked for much college at all. And without $$$$$$ it is damn near impossible to get off those tracks.
So yeah, I 1000% prefer what we have, where a kid can grow academically after 5th/6th grade and still decide to be an engineer or a doctor after age 12.

Nah. You can pretty much tell where a kid should be by the end of 6th grade. Pretending that kids can “grow” after that is a waste of everyone’s time and of public resources.

This is so un-American!
I am an immigrant from Asia. What attracts us so much about America is precisely that, as long as you work hard, you always have another opportunity.
Tiger parents often pushed kids hard in their childhood, then the kids lost motivation once they left home.

America doesn’t do everything right. The education system is a perfect example of this! It is a huge waste of time, money, and effort to try and get every kid to go to college. Many kids should be put on a vocational track in high school, as many countries do.

Could not agree more. Open enrollment in Honors and AP classes at our public HS has been an unmitigated disaster for the kids who actually deserve to be there. Tons of kids are literally flunking. It should not even be possible to flunk an AP class. It means someone screwed up somewhere.

Yes, I agree open enrollment into AP courses should not be allowed. Kids should be required to at minimum get a B or better in the honors/honor equivalent course the prior year or an B+ or better in a regular course. But many do allow open enrollment because it means less work for the overworked staff and teachers, it means they don't have to deal with nasty pushy parents who want "my kid belongs in AP X or Honors X, I don't care that they got a C in regular X this year" This way with open enrollment, any failures are totally on the parents/student.

DP. I completely disagree. How does someone else's kid potentially doing badly in an AP affect you or your kid? EVERY student should have the opportunity to excel, and most do. And if they do badly or fail, then it is indeed on them/their parents - no one else is affected.

Except the rest of the students in an AP class where the teacher is spending way too much time trying to help those failing kids. What a waste of everyone’s time, including the kids who could be learning a lot more in a class appropriate for their level.

That doesn't happen in high school. In AP classes, all kids are expected to keep up. If they don't, the teacher will counsel them to drop down a level. What you're describing is an elementary school situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I smell a 🧌

Do you think her profile is too "basic"? She says she regrets not picking more creative ECs, although I think her ECs were perfectly suited for her major + demonstrated her passion.

Yeah, I agree there is nothing that stands out in her ECs.

ECs:
not impressive: - A few regional awards (STEM)
Actually good: - 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
everyone has one: - Founder of non-profit
this year AOs don't like research for some reason: - Research w/ prof at T30
everyone has one: - Competitive summer program for BME
everyone has this: - Lots of community service

This year I heard Stanford retracted an acceptance because the applicant lied about volunteer hours.
Are those 200 volunteer hours @ local hospital registered with the school?

Yes, she made sure that everything was registered. I'm assuming the more "basic" ECs were the factor harming her application?

No, it's just a bizarre system that makes kids do these things. In other countries kids don't have to do these admissions acrobatics.

No, other countries instead track kids around age 11/12 (or earlier). You are tracked at this age, based on a one day test. Do well, you can be on tract for pre-med/stem/engineering. Do okay, and you can focus on humanities and social sciences (non stem), do worse, and you won't be tracked for much college at all. And without $$$$$$ it is damn near impossible to get off those tracks.
So yeah, I 1000% prefer what we have, where a kid can grow academically after 5th/6th grade and still decide to be an engineer or a doctor after age 12.

Nah. You can pretty much tell where a kid should be by the end of 6th grade. Pretending that kids can “grow” after that is a waste of everyone’s time and of public resources.

This is so un-American!
I am an immigrant from Asia. What attracts us so much about America is precisely that, as long as you work hard, you always have another opportunity.
Tiger parents often pushed kids hard in their childhood, then the kids lost motivation once they left home.

America doesn’t do everything right. The education system is a perfect example of this! It is a huge waste of time, money, and effort to try and get every kid to go to college. Many kids should be put on a vocational track in high school, as many countries do.

Could not agree more. Open enrollment in Honors and AP classes at our public HS has been an unmitigated disaster for the kids who actually deserve to be there. Tons of kids are literally flunking. It should not even be possible to flunk an AP class. It means someone screwed up somewhere.

Yes, I agree open enrollment into AP courses should not be allowed. Kids should be required to at minimum get a B or better in the honors/honor equivalent course the prior year or an B+ or better in a regular course. But many do allow open enrollment because it means less work for the overworked staff and teachers, it means they don't have to deal with nasty pushy parents who want "my kid belongs in AP X or Honors X, I don't care that they got a C in regular X this year" This way with open enrollment, any failures are totally on the parents/student.

DP. I completely disagree. How does someone else's kid potentially doing badly in an AP affect you or your kid? EVERY student should have the opportunity to excel, and most do. And if they do badly or fail, then it is indeed on them/their parents - no one else is affected.

Except the rest of the students in an AP class where the teacher is spending way too much time trying to help those failing kids. What a waste of everyone’s time, including the kids who could be learning a lot more in a class appropriate for their level.

That doesn't happen in high school. In AP classes, all kids are expected to keep up. If they don't, the teacher will counsel them to drop down a level. What you're describing is an elementary school situation.