Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The contributing factors to this crash will never be fully addressed. The fundamental problem is the orientation of Runway 33 vis-a-vis military traffic on the east side of the Potomac. It’s past time that Runway 33 is closed. If that means DCA has to shed a few slots so be it. Plenty of capacity at IAD.

That was also the opinion of a guest (aviation expert?) on nbc4 this morning. Planes have to swing out to the east side of the river to land on that runway, which brings them into the same space as the helicopters that fly low and the helicopters have to maintain visual distance. Too much can go wrong.

I know nothing about airplanes. But I cannot understand how in 2025, planes aren’t equipped with technology that gives them exact location and screen visualization of other close airplanes in the air. I can understand how the naked eye could miss a nearby plane when traveling from above or below, plus night, and fast moving. But surely helicopters and commercial planes have better onboard technology than purely relying on the pilot looking out the window.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any experience with how this type of wreckage impacts use of the river in the near future? Thank god the river was mostly frozen and not being used by recreational boaters.

Mostly frozen? Temps have been above freezing for several days.

I work at the Wharf and the river freezes and unfreezes when it's in the 40s 50s during the day.

I work in old town and am from Wisconsin. Rivers here don’t freeze beyond a thin surface layer for a day or two.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FAA has been understaffed and underfunded for decades. New cuts would be extremely dangerous.

Yup.

Trump is such an idiot!!! Indiscriminately telling ALL Federal employees they can quit. Even when we have a shortage and their jobs are a matter of life and death. Fox employees cannot take everyone’s place 🙄

Well, i would agree with you if this happened 1 month or even one week from today after a bunch of quits, but this is too recent to say it has anything to do with the OPM resignation; the other argument was that this is a leftover issue from the Biden administration but I don't think its either case so time to move off politics.

Nope. It’s Trump’s fault.

He claims credit for good items leftover from Biden and blames Biden for anything that doesn’t go well.

Using Trump’s own “rules,” this is on Trump.

Plus he has been harassing federal employees for the last week. ATCs are federal employees and already in a stressful job. Having the president talk about firing you and your friends only adds to the stress.

THIS^

Biden signed the bill that increase air traffic and this flight

It’s going to be the helicopter’s fault, so let’s figure out why they were there.

Isn't it weird that they say the plane hit the copter when copters are way more agile than the plane. Only one of those two could have quickly diverted. The copter.

Head on

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no need for a direct flight from
National to Wichita. That airport is too congested.

I feel awful for the poor ATCs

The flight was fine. DCA is fine.

The issue was the helicopter.

What is with the weird anti-DCA trolling?

I agree. Those are a conversation for another moment.

Yeah it’s the Save Our Skies people from west Bethesda and fox hall who have the air pollution from planes approaching for a landing from the north.

They’re always jumping at a potential opp to cut flight volume.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No confirmed survivors yet, am I right?

They do not expect survivors at this point. They said they are now in recovery mode, not rescue. Sincere condolences to family and loved ones.

The airplane is in three different sections in different areas of the Potomac. I think most were into the beyond on impact (when copter hit them).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Air Traffic Control error.

Did you listen to the ATC recording? The helicopter pilots screwed up.

Right. The ATC ask several times for PAT25 (helo) to confirm they see the CRJ and PAT25 doesn’t answer.

The news is also reporting that it was an Army training flight. It definitely seems to be an error by the helicopter.

This is what the video suggests too. I’ve listened to the ATC recording, watched the video, etc.

I’m certainly not going to listen to Trump’s bloviating as “news.”

Learn from the primary sources.

Pp

Anyone know what traffic into DC is like today, especially on 66?

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any experience with how this type of wreckage impacts use of the river in the near future? Thank god the river was mostly frozen and not being used by recreational boaters.

Dude, could have happened right on Old town or the national harbor.

Anonymous wrote:No confirmed survivors yet, am I right?

They do not expect survivors at this point. They said they are now in recovery mode, not rescue. Sincere condolences to family and loved ones.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fundamental problem is that the approach from upriver violates every FAA best practice for safety in order to follow the sharp curve of the river around Georgetown Landing, in order to reduce noise over residential areas and avoid protected airspace (VP mansion etc.). This removes the safety that comes from having a long-straight approach to the runway, which gives the landing pilots plenty of chance to see anything flying near them and gives helicopters relief from having a plane come whipping around the corner.

The sick irony is this all happens within site of FAA HQ.

That wasn't the approach the plane used here. It came from the south.

So is the southern approach long-straight, or does it also involve dangerous/late turns? And if so, why does it need these dangerous turns?

Also, ask lockheeds NextGen GPS landing software. It set the coordinates, landing from north or south.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FAA has been understaffed and underfunded for decades. New cuts would be extremely dangerous.

Yup.

Trump is such an idiot!!! Indiscriminately telling ALL Federal employees they can quit. Even when we have a shortage and their jobs are a matter of life and death. Fox employees cannot take everyone’s place 🙄

Well, i would agree with you if this happened 1 month or even one week from today after a bunch of quits, but this is too recent to say it has anything to do with the OPM resignation; the other argument was that this is a leftover issue from the Biden administration but I don't think its either case so time to move off politics.

Nope. It’s Trump’s fault.

He claims credit for good items leftover from Biden and blames Biden for anything that doesn’t go well.

Using Trump’s own “rules,” this is on Trump.

Plus he has been harassing federal employees for the last week. ATCs are federal employees and already in a stressful job. Having the president talk about firing you and your friends only adds to the stress.

THIS^

Biden signed the bill that increase air traffic and this flight

It’s going to be the helicopter’s fault, so let’s figure out why they were there.

It’s because of the combination of increased helicopters and traffic in/out of DCA.

Having a training exercise by a major airport at night is insane. The pilot’s mind is going to be focused on the exercise, there is reduced visibility, it’s difficult to see airplane lights admits the city lights, and there are multiple planes to keep an eye on.

Also keep in mind that genetically, we are still apes designed for a slow pace on the ground. Not for travelling hundred of miles an hour in the air. If you look at birds, which are designed to fly in close contact at high speeds while making sharp turns, they have completely different adaptations, including much faster visual processing, better eyesight, 360 degree vision, and senses we don’t even have.

While it may be the helicopter’s “fault”, these accidents come down to bad engineering that didn’t take into account human limitations and human error. No matter what, people will always make mistakes and things need to be engineered to accommodate that. Not push the limits until a catastrophe happens.

We all have made massive mistakes at our own jobs. It’s human. We have limitations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fundamental problem is that the approach from upriver violates every FAA best practice for safety in order to follow the sharp curve of the river around Georgetown Landing, in order to reduce noise over residential areas and avoid protected airspace (VP mansion etc.). This removes the safety that comes from having a long-straight approach to the runway, which gives the landing pilots plenty of chance to see anything flying near them and gives helicopters relief from having a plane come whipping around the corner.

The sick irony is this all happens within site of FAA HQ.

That wasn't the approach the plane used here. It came from the south.

So is the southern approach long-straight, or does it also involve dangerous/late turns? And if so, why does it need these dangerous turns?

Long and straight from the south.

Come on. We all live here. No commercial jets are doing hairpin turns over a 200m wide river to instantly land. You fly way south over Maryland, get in the queue, then land. It’s the less “pretty” landing.

The ATC system is broken. After the Reagan firings the training was reduced and you now have under qualified controllers being rushed into jobs. And the rollout of GPS has taken decades. There’s no easy fix but the system needs budget and needs to hire people based on their qualifications and not other factors. And it’s the same with pilots too btw. DCA has some of the busiest space and had two near collisions in the last 6 months, both directly ATC screwups.

One possibility is that the new administration has been in a frenzy summoning military leaders to carry out its mission critical objectives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCA is fine. A lot of you don’t seem to understand that IAD does not even offer many of the routes DCA offers. I live closer to IAD but fly DCA most often due to the routes. I’m not “choosing” DCA. The routes choose for me. If you aren’t flying international or to the west coast you are more likely booking DCA.

So move those flights to IAD. Then IAD will offer those routes.

The politicians don’t want to drive the extra 40 min to DC

No one does. DCA is more convenient for a lot of people. But saying you fly out of DCA because that’s where the flights begs the question.