Anonymous wrote:I work and honestly don’t care. When your kids are all school age like mine, nobody talks about this any more. At that point, if you stay home you want to not work, you aren’t “raising” anything more than anyone else.

This doesn’t apply if you are a homeschooler, in which case we likely won’t get along for different reasons.

I work in an elementary school and I definitely see a lot of people who are just checked out from raising their kids. It's pretty frustrating. Just because your kid is in school does not mean you don't have to teach them and interact with them at home. I cannot tell you how many kids come to school in shoes they cannot tie, lunches they cannot open and the lists goes on. We have had parents who will walk the school from calling because they don't want to be contacted about their child's absences or behavior issues. It's frustrating

I work and honestly don’t care. When your kids are all school age like mine, nobody talks about this any more. At that point, if you stay home you want to not work, you aren’t “raising” anything more than anyone else.

This doesn’t apply if you are a homeschooler, in which case we likely won’t get along for different reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think of it this way. If you had a 2-year-old and got divorced and got 50% custody, the child would only physically be in your presence half the time. In a different scenario, if you used to stay at home with your 2-year-old but switch to working 8 hours a day, you now also only have your child physically in your presence half the time. This is math.

If the verb “raise” is what is offending people, maybe moms should just say “I want to be around my child most of the day instead of have someone else around my child most of the day.”

SAHMs use the word raise because they are defensive of their life choices.

No one tells a man that they’re not raising their children when a man works full time paid employment to provide for their family.

All mothers are defensive of their life choices because people incessantly attack our life choices. And because as you point out men are not presented with the same choices and thus get to live "default" lives that don't get incessantly judged and picked apart by others. Though men who choose to be SAHDs absolutely do get treated this way. But women get this treatment whether they stay home or work whereas working dads never have anyone question their choices.

That's why even though I'm a working mom I am empathetic to SAHMs who feel like they need to justify their choices. And I can also see how the strong reaction so many working moms are having to this little phrasing in this thread is actually their own defensiveness at work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think of it this way. If you had a 2-year-old and got divorced and got 50% custody, the child would only physically be in your presence half the time. In a different scenario, if you used to stay at home with your 2-year-old but switch to working 8 hours a day, you now also only have your child physically in your presence half the time. This is math.

If the verb “raise” is what is offending people, maybe moms should just say “I want to be around my child most of the day instead of have someone else around my child most of the day.”

SAHMs use the word raise because they are defensive of their life choices.

No one tells a man that they’re not raising their children when a man works full time paid employment to provide for their family.

There’s a reason for that. it’s the same reason that by an amazing coincidence it just happens to work out best logistically for the family for the woman to stay at home, 90% of the time.

The reason rhymes with “matriarchy”.

Anonymous wrote:I think of it this way. If you had a 2-year-old and got divorced and got 50% custody, the child would only physically be in your presence half the time. In a different scenario, if you used to stay at home with your 2-year-old but switch to working 8 hours a day, you now also only have your child physically in your presence half the time. This is math.

If the verb “raise” is what is offending people, maybe moms should just say “I want to be around my child most of the day instead of have someone else around my child most of the day.”

SAHMs use the word raise because they are defensive of their life choices.

No one tells a man that they’re not raising their children when a man works full time paid employment to provide for their family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp again. More than working status, I do think the education standards of the mother matter greatly. DH and I both attended top colleges and our kids expect and also want to attend a top school. I see a huge difference in kids whose parents went to an ivy or other top school and guiding their kids. An uneducated or SAHM who was never professionally successful is different than your Harvard law educated SAHM married to a big law partner.

People keep trying to claim most SAHMs fit this profile, but they do not. Successful and ambitious women want to keep being successful and ambitious. Sure, they may take a break for 4-5 years while the kids are little, if they don’t have a spouse or grandparents to share the childcare load, but it’s a sacrifice and they go back as soon as the youngest hits K. They don’t want to live that lifestyle forever.

The long-term SAHMs I know (in McLean, Arlington, Vienna, and two private schools) were average in terms of education and career but lucky enough to marry rich. Or they do fit the profile above but are dealing with medical or SN issues in themselves or their children.

Pp here. I’m Harvard educated and a SAHM. I know many former lawyers married who stay home. Most people I hang out with are former lawyers. I also know several doctors who are credentialed and work a few shifts a year but basically a SAHM. Maybe it is because I’m a well educated SAHM that I hang out with other well educated SAHMs or very part time working moms. We all have a high earning spouses. I would estimate the husbands all earn seven figures.

+1. I am a SAHM and PP has described my situation exactly. We exist.

Oh noooo - the Harvard grad isn’t getting their head pats.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never voluntarily step away from the workforce and lessen my earning potential. What if my husband dies or we get divorced?
That is worse than my kids having different caretakers for 1/3 of the week when they are young. Also the kids eventually go to school so what do the SAHMs think then?

Why does everyone always bring up school as though it’s the great equalizer?

Stay home or work, I don’t care (and I have done both) but does summer vacation not exist in your worlds? School breaks? Snow days? Teacher workdays? Before and after care because the school day isn’t as long as work day?

Tl;dr Even when the kids start school, they are still spending significantly more time with a SAHP than they would be with a WOHP.

We walk the kids to school at 7:15, they are home by 3:15, our neighbor walks the kids home and we walk theirs to school. My husband works European hours so he is with them until I’m logging out at 5. Not sure how you being at home is so much better than our setup.

Nobody said anything about it being better or worse, doofus. I said that SAHP spends more time with the kids than WOHP, even once the kids are school aged. The biggest and most obvious example (which I listed and you ignored) is that two to three month stretch of time known to most of us plebes as summer break.

This is a simple matter of math. Stop being so ridiculous and defensive.

Name calling is gauche and I immediately mentioned how my kids spend a good chunk of their summer with grandparents. You’re the one being defensive.

Whoever paid for your education wasted their dollars.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

+1. I had kids to actually be a mom. I wanted the experience and contracted out parenting as little as possible (although had to do some), whereas I know moms who want to work and were less interested in the day to day of parenting. What is wrong with acknowledging that?

Yeah, this is exactly the kind of defensiveness that people display when using that phrase. SAHMs without a chip on their shoulder don’t sound like this. SAHMs who are confident in their choice don’t disdainfully say that in order to “actually be a mom” a woman has to be solely responsible for daytime childcare.

PP, once your kids are in elementary school, are they suddenly going to be “raised” by elementary school teachers? or does your contempt expire the minute the situation become applicable for you personally?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp again. More than working status, I do think the education standards of the mother matter greatly. DH and I both attended top colleges and our kids expect and also want to attend a top school. I see a huge difference in kids whose parents went to an ivy or other top school and guiding their kids. An uneducated or SAHM who was never professionally successful is different than your Harvard law educated SAHM married to a big law partner.

People keep trying to claim most SAHMs fit this profile, but they do not. Successful and ambitious women want to keep being successful and ambitious. Sure, they may take a break for 4-5 years while the kids are little, if they don’t have a spouse or grandparents to share the childcare load, but it’s a sacrifice and they go back as soon as the youngest hits K. They don’t want to live that lifestyle forever.

The long-term SAHMs I know (in McLean, Arlington, Vienna, and two private schools) were average in terms of education and career but lucky enough to marry rich. Or they do fit the profile above but are dealing with medical or SN issues in themselves or their children.

Pp here. I’m Harvard educated and a SAHM. I know many former lawyers married who stay home. Most people I hang out with are former lawyers. I also know several doctors who are credentialed and work a few shifts a year but basically a SAHM. Maybe it is because I’m a well educated SAHM that I hang out with other well educated SAHMs or very part time working moms. We all have a high earning spouses. I would estimate the husbands all earn seven figures.

+1. I am a SAHM and PP has described my situation exactly. We exist.

I am sure you exist but there are not that many of you, and the majority of you are dealing with medical and SN stuff which prevents you from doing much outside the home. Or you are unlucky enough to have no one (spouse or grandparents) to share the childcare load and you must do it all yourself.

Life is too short to get offended. We ignore and move on.

Anonymous wrote:It’s my sincere wish for all families to do what works best from them. We can debate what is best for kids or families but there is no reason why you need to share your truth with everyone you come into contact with.

It is rude to insinuate that someone else’s job, home, childcare arrangement etc is worse than yours. This should be obvious.

So, yes, insinuating that working moms don’t value time with their children or don’t like raising them is rude. And insinuating that sahms are boring or lazy is rude. You can think it in your head but it’s rude to say out loud with your mouth.

I don’t think anyone actually says this in real life. These mommy wars only happen online. It isn’t like you go to a party and a bunch of working moms and SAHMs are getting into a fight about this.

It’s my sincere wish for all families to do what works best from them. We can debate what is best for kids or families but there is no reason why you need to share your truth with everyone you come into contact with.

It is rude to insinuate that someone else’s job, home, childcare arrangement etc is worse than yours. This should be obvious.

So, yes, insinuating that working moms don’t value time with their children or don’t like raising them is rude. And insinuating that sahms are boring or lazy is rude. You can think it in your head but it’s rude to say out loud with your mouth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp again. More than working status, I do think the education standards of the mother matter greatly. DH and I both attended top colleges and our kids expect and also want to attend a top school. I see a huge difference in kids whose parents went to an ivy or other top school and guiding their kids. An uneducated or SAHM who was never professionally successful is different than your Harvard law educated SAHM married to a big law partner.

People keep trying to claim most SAHMs fit this profile, but they do not. Successful and ambitious women want to keep being successful and ambitious. Sure, they may take a break for 4-5 years while the kids are little, if they don’t have a spouse or grandparents to share the childcare load, but it’s a sacrifice and they go back as soon as the youngest hits K. They don’t want to live that lifestyle forever.

The long-term SAHMs I know (in McLean, Arlington, Vienna, and two private schools) were average in terms of education and career but lucky enough to marry rich. Or they do fit the profile above but are dealing with medical or SN issues in themselves or their children.

Pp here. I’m Harvard educated and a SAHM. I know many former lawyers married who stay home. Most people I hang out with are former lawyers. I also know several doctors who are credentialed and work a few shifts a year but basically a SAHM. Maybe it is because I’m a well educated SAHM that I hang out with other well educated SAHMs or very part time working moms. We all have a high earning spouses. I would estimate the husbands all earn seven figures.

+1. I am a SAHM and PP has described my situation exactly. We exist.

And i understand I have a lot of typos. My new phone is annoying with its autofill and autocorrect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp again. More than working status, I do think the education standards of the mother matter greatly. DH and I both attended top colleges and our kids expect and also want to attend a top school. I see a huge difference in kids whose parents went to an ivy or other top school and guiding their kids. An uneducated or SAHM who was never professionally successful is different than your Harvard law educated SAHM married to a big law partner.

People keep trying to claim most SAHMs fit this profile, but they do not. Successful and ambitious women want to keep being successful and ambitious. Sure, they may take a break for 4-5 years while the kids are little, if they don’t have a spouse or grandparents to share the childcare load, but it’s a sacrifice and they go back as soon as the youngest hits K. They don’t want to live that lifestyle forever.

The long-term SAHMs I know (in McLean, Arlington, Vienna, and two private schools) were average in terms of education and career but lucky enough to marry rich. Or they do fit the profile above but are dealing with medical or SN issues in themselves or their children.

Pp here. I’m Harvard educated and a SAHM. I know many former lawyers married who stay home. Most people I hang out with are former lawyers. I also know several doctors who are credentialed and work a few shifts a year but basically a SAHM. Maybe it is because I’m a well educated SAHM that I hang out with other well educated SAHMs or very part time working moms. We all have a high earning spouses. I would estimate the husbands all earn seven figures.