Anonymous
06/14/2023 10:23
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.
Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.
Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.
Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class
+1
It is remarkable that some of the PPs are so simple minded, yet do not understand why the admittances should not be only STEM. Stereotypes exist for a reason.
I think most of the people here know this whole thing is about more than numbers. They wouldn't list their kid's activities and character traits. It's a very small number of people who think they know it all who want this to be just about GPAs and a test score.
There are plenty of colleges that agree that a GPA and a test score is all they need. But people test-obsessed tent to scoff at them. It's kind of funny to see yourself as "too good" for the very schools that make acceptances the way you think they ought to.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 10:23
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.
Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.
Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.
Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:
1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?
The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?
The PP does not want those nuances. They do not want a low income student to "be understood" and given any credit for a lower score due to life experiences (ie having to work just to help support the family). They only want perks for themselves in their privileged life. How dare you insinuate that anyone with a lower SAT is "better" than their kid.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 10:20
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.
Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.
Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.
Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:
1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?
The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?
You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.
There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.
Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.
Random selection. Donezo.
OK...so basically there is no algorithm. I mean, even people that may generally agree with your overall argument, will likely fall away as they peel back in the onion on your idea.
You do realize of course is if this all you do for college, then you will now have likely 10x - 20x the number of kids with a perfect GPA and perfect or near-perfect SAT scores. BTW...the rich kids will easily figure out a way to buy these scores.
And again, how will Yale drama or the equivalent pick their applicants?
The issue at hand is not as much the rich kids buying scores, as it is the over coaching and over prepping - that is what brought the issue to the forefront. There is an organized effort to cheat - and when the system changes, so does the cheating.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 10:18
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.
Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.
Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.
Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class
+1
It is remarkable that some of the PPs are so simple minded, yet do not understand why the admittances should not be only STEM. Stereotypes exist for a reason.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 09:54
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.
Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.
Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.
Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:
1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?
The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?
You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.
There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.
Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.
Random selection. Donezo.
OK...so basically there is no algorithm. I mean, even people that may generally agree with your overall argument, will likely fall away as they peel back in the onion on your idea.
You do realize of course is if this all you do for college, then you will now have likely 10x - 20x the number of kids with a perfect GPA and perfect or near-perfect SAT scores. BTW...the rich kids will easily figure out a way to buy these scores.
And again, how will Yale drama or the equivalent pick their applicants?
Anonymous
06/14/2023 09:46
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.
Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.
Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.
Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:
1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?
The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?
You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.
There are too many people with perfect qualifications, as this thread goes on and on about, so most of your points are moot.
Set the limit for quality than randomly choose. End of story. No more fluff garbage like saving infants in 3rd world countries, no more sob stories of growing up without running water, no more BS my dad is an alumni and contributes a lot of money, no more ID crap.
Random selection. Donezo.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 09:43
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.
Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.
Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.
Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class
It really doesn't take a slide ruler or advanced calculus to figure this out.
Fill out application with random assigned number that kids your name and identity. Select top 3 choices for major. Input GPA/SAT. Done.
No fluff. No legacies. No identities. Randomly pick people who meet a cutoff for GPA/SAT. You can include parameters for random selection based on major choice and limits for capacity.
Students get accept or reject letter stating which majors they're admitted to. This is a minor problem.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 09:40
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:1) The cost of the lottery ticket is higher for Asian American kids than Black kids. I get that at some point admissions is a lottery for the most selective schools, but you cannot get around the fact that the floor of SAT scores is much lower for Black and Hispanic students than Asian ones.
2) I am not confident that AOs appreciate and take into account the huge differences within the Asian American community with regard to income and parent education.
Honest question, why aren't you screaming from the rooftops about the mostly-white legacy students who make up 30% or so of the incoming classes of these universities, compared to the less than 5% of black kids? You know that it's much more likely one of those kids "stole" the spot others think they are entitled to. How much does *their* lottery ticket cost?
I think that the folks screaming about Affirmative Action know that their children and grandchildren are unlikely to be Black, but they think that if they can just get rid of Affirmative Action wihle keeping legacy admission, it might benefit them down the road.
This is about preserving the option of legacy admission just in case it benefits them and/or future generations, while getting rid of the factors unlikely to benefit them/future generations.
Everyone…this is it.
The Asians admitted to the top schools don’t give a rats a** about the ones who aren’t.
And once they are in the club, they are just as likely to want to preserve legacy as the white lax bro.
Please cite your source on this. Otherwise you are talking out of your a$$.
Well, considering 99.9% of this thread is people talking out of their a**…I will cite my a**
But sure, tell yourself it isn’t true.
So, your barometer is dcum? LOL You are indeed talking out of your a$$. And newsflash: there are non Asian people who also feel that Asian Americans are discriminated against, including many Jews.
Yep, I was just down at Temple and this is all anyone could talk about.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 09:39
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.
Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.
Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.
Except, there are so many problems with this supposed fair solution and how the algorithm will work:
1. Who is a better engineering candidate...a kid with a 1400 SAT that is 800 Math / 600 Verbal, or a kid with a 1500 SAT that is 700 Math / 800 verbal? Flip that example around for someone applying as an English Major?
2. Who is a better college applicant...the kid that was one of the 10 Regeneron finalists with a 1550 SAT...or a kid that did nothing but has a 1590 SAT?
3. If you are applying to Yale for drama...how does any of this apply?
4. Again, who is the better candidate...the kid that had to work 30 hours per week during the school year to help support his family and got a 1500 SAT with no test prep help, or the rich kid that received 50 hours of paid test prep and scored a 1550?
The list could go on and on...how will the algorithm figure this out?
Anonymous
06/14/2023 09:36
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.
Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.
Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.
Then you just deal with an overcrowded CS/ENG dept and nobody in the English dept? So much more does (and should ) go into selecting a freshman class
Anonymous
06/14/2023 08:43
Subject: Re:Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This case is going nowhere. Those stats are run of the mill at those schools, regardless of ethnicity.
I doubt more than 5% high school grads earn these stats.
Do you realize how many kids that 5% is?
More than 17,000 kids are in the top 1% of SAT scores alone. Harvard only admitted 2,318 applicants. So even if being in the top 1% were their sole criteria (and in fact it appears that 90% of admitted students were), more than 14,000 kids in the top 1% would be (and were) rejected.
Around 2000 x t20 = 40,000
They(top 1%) should at least get in a T20 school.
So you believe the only criterion for admission to a T20 school should be the SAT?
Most of these kids also have high gpa and rigor as well as good ECs, essay, leadership, interview, etc.
It's not a common case to have only supirior SAT. Didn't you see the Harvard data?
They know all the criterion involved, and prepared.
That's why Harvard had to introduce courage/kindness/likability score.
Google it for further information.
um...no, they introduced those "soft" metrics as a way to discriminate against Jews. Google it for further information.
Yup....iirc, they were rejecting Asian students for crap like not being funny enough, the perception that they'd study too much and wouldn't do well in team learning, etc.
WTH? This is the 21st century, yet here we have huge organizations rejecting very qualified people based on racial stereotypes, because that's the only way they can keep their numbers at bay.
Asian parents really need to teach their kids how to keep it real, yo. Maybe they should force their kids to write rap songs and post their tracks to YouTube rather than she them learn a classical instrument. Instead of going to math camp, sign them up for stand up comedy open mic nights.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 08:38
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
No Asians are in no position to how Asians should feel. Let’s just respectfully disagree. The discussion are going nowhere as people are holding their personal opinions as facts.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 08:35
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Here's the solution.
Set a filter with X GPA and Y SAT scores. Throw all people who make it into the pool and use a random computer algorithm to pick people.
Totally the fairest way to choose. All of the extraneous stuff is nonsense. Schools should decide where they want to set the bar for quality, then have a completely race agnostic system for selection. Drawing straws is fair after the cutoff is met.
I’m certain that with new AI this will be a part of how selection is performed in the future, but likely not 100% of the review process.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 08:33
Subject: Re:Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This case is going nowhere. Those stats are run of the mill at those schools, regardless of ethnicity.
I doubt more than 5% high school grads earn these stats.
Do you realize how many kids that 5% is?
More than 17,000 kids are in the top 1% of SAT scores alone. Harvard only admitted 2,318 applicants. So even if being in the top 1% were their sole criteria (and in fact it appears that 90% of admitted students were), more than 14,000 kids in the top 1% would be (and were) rejected.
Around 2000 x t20 = 40,000
They(top 1%) should at least get in a T20 school.
So you believe the only criterion for admission to a T20 school should be the SAT?
Most of these kids also have high gpa and rigor as well as good ECs, essay, leadership, interview, etc.
It's not a common case to have only supirior SAT. Didn't you see the Harvard data?
They know all the criterion involved, and prepared.
That's why Harvard had to introduce courage/kindness/likability score.
Google it for further information.
um...no, they introduced those "soft" metrics as a way to discriminate against Jews. Google it for further information.
Yup....iirc, they were rejecting Asian students for crap like not being funny enough, the perception that they'd study too much and wouldn't do well in team learning, etc.
WTH? This is the 21st century, yet here we have huge organizations rejecting very qualified people based on racial stereotypes, because that's the only way they can keep their numbers at bay.
Asian parents really need to teach their kids how to keep it real, yo. Maybe they should force their kids to write rap songs and post their tracks to YouTube rather than she them learn a classical instrument. Instead of going to math camp, sign them up for stand up comedy open mic nights.
Anonymous
06/14/2023 08:27
Subject: Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:1) The cost of the lottery ticket is higher for Asian American kids than Black kids. I get that at some point admissions is a lottery for the most selective schools, but you cannot get around the fact that the floor of SAT scores is much lower for Black and Hispanic students than Asian ones.
2) I am not confident that AOs appreciate and take into account the huge differences within the Asian American community with regard to income and parent education.
Honest question, why aren't you screaming from the rooftops about the mostly-white legacy students who make up 30% or so of the incoming classes of these universities, compared to the less than 5% of black kids? You know that it's much more likely one of those kids "stole" the spot others think they are entitled to. How much does *their* lottery ticket cost?
I think that the folks screaming about Affirmative Action know that their children and grandchildren are unlikely to be Black, but they think that if they can just get rid of Affirmative Action wihle keeping legacy admission, it might benefit them down the road.
This is about preserving the option of legacy admission just in case it benefits them and/or future generations, while getting rid of the factors unlikely to benefit them/future generations.
Everyone…this is it.
The Asians admitted to the top schools don’t give a rats a** about the ones who aren’t.
And once they are in the club, they are just as likely to want to preserve legacy as the white lax bro.
Please cite your source on this. Otherwise you are talking out of your a$$.
Well, considering 99.9% of this thread is people talking out of their a**…I will cite my a**
But sure, tell yourself it isn’t true.
So, your barometer is dcum? LOL You are indeed talking out of your a$$. And newsflash: there are non Asian people who also feel that Asian Americans are discriminated against, including many Jews.