Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone I know who got divorced as a result of cheating and were actually able to move forward with their own lives, take advantage of the new situation and get over the betrayal in a healthy way have no desire for the kids to know the details surrounding the reasons for the divorce, infidelity or otherwise. Healthy, well adjusted people who aren’t living in the past can clearly see how the knowledge of the details could negatively impact the kids. And it should be all about the kids. My XH cheated- after a few years of massive amounts of anger and grief I was able to move forward. I love my new life and I’m happy for him with his new life as well. Kids are thriving, I never talk bad about him and to my knowledge he does the same. I don’t hate him. I wouldn’t be where I am now if he hadn’t cheated. And I have a really, really good life.

I think this is normal and what most people think of when they tell their kids they are divorcing because of an affair as well. It's just this one daughter of a mother and cheater who is telling people how awful it was to know but that's because it went on and on and wasn't just a one time conversation. But if you have older kids have you really just told them that you guys split up because you didn't get along? It just seems very fake and I think confusing to the children because they probably did see you getting along for the most part since cheating is secret. That is the discussion. Whether to tell them ever.

Um you have my story incorrect. She was a cheater but that was inconsequential to her general horribleness. I didn’t care about the cheating because by the time I found out (incidentally via finding paperwork in an office inadvertently as a teen), I already knew she was horrible! She had been talking crap about my dad for years and trying to turn me against him.

So my conclusion is that being a narcissist and trying to turn a child against the other parent is much more damaging than cheating to the child.

So she didn't even tell you anything about cheating as a reason for the divorce and both your parents were cheaters and you are on here telling everyone not to tell their children anything? Uggh. So basically you have no reason to advocate not telling your kids the truth since you didn't experience any horror from this since it didn't actually happen to you. You've just been creating this fake problem. Thanks for filling up all these pages with your fake horror from people just saying a short line of honesty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband had an affair (which did not lead to divorce) and we never told the kids. I would be really cautious to share this with children . . . it feels invasive and vindictive. If Daddy runs off with OW and starts living with her right away, I think that will be obvious to the kids. But if he doesn't leave *for* a particular woman and simply because he made the marriage a big old mess, then I would be focusing on building a healthy coparenting relationship.

IMO marriages don't break down because of affairs; they break down because of what caused the affair. And no, the answer is not "dead bedroom." The answer is whatever personality flaws led one spouse to make the unhealthy choice to cheat rather than the healthy choice to communicate, cope, do self-care, ask for a separation or open marriage, etc. You got divorced because your ex was conflict-avoidant and low on empathy and self-awareness, for example. And those issues will absolutely impact his relationship with the kids going forward, but as an ex it becomes less an issue of you managing that and more an issue of you supporting your kids, modeling healthy adulthood, and setting boundaries where appropriate (no introducing new partners until both exes agree or it's been 6 months, etc.).

Regarding this dead bedroom argument, I do agree that it's unfair to change a marriage into a sexless one unilaterally. Sometimes it can't be helped due to physical limitations, but you can still check in with your partner and go over your options. TBH I think in many ways the classic dead bedroom where one spouse just assumes it's fine and resents that their spouse "badgers" them for sex is very similar to the process through which cheaters justify affairs ("I know it's wrong but s/he's so awful that I don't care"). You always have the choice to demonstrate more empathy, to try harder to communicate, to find ways to connect that satisfy both of you. And if, from that respectful and compassionate place, you decide that your differences are irreconcilable, then you will begin separate lives from a much healthier place.

This is all very insightful. I am the guy people are vilifying above, and you are dead on correct that both my wife's shutting down and my cheating came from conflict avoidant and ultimately selfish decisions. It's good to recognize it so I don't make the same mistake in the future.

I disagree. I stopped having sex with my xH and did explained to him multiple times what I needed to re-kindle things. He refused and instead would badger me until I gave in, which felt like assault [i]and made me withdraw even more.

Every woman I know who lost interest in sex with their H felt the same. They explained what they needed and their H dismissed them, instead forcing them, accusing them of intentionally withholding, etc. Often for years.

They are intentionally withholding, as they have every right to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone I know who got divorced as a result of cheating and were actually able to move forward with their own lives, take advantage of the new situation and get over the betrayal in a healthy way have no desire for the kids to know the details surrounding the reasons for the divorce, infidelity or otherwise. Healthy, well adjusted people who aren’t living in the past can clearly see how the knowledge of the details could negatively impact the kids. And it should be all about the kids. My XH cheated- after a few years of massive amounts of anger and grief I was able to move forward. I love my new life and I’m happy for him with his new life as well. Kids are thriving, I never talk bad about him and to my knowledge he does the same. I don’t hate him. I wouldn’t be where I am now if he hadn’t cheated. And I have a really, really good life.

A few years of massive anger and grief is a lot to inflict on someone you supposedly loved and took vows with.

This is the PP and I agree- it was a really rough few years. But I needed that time to deal with it and grow and move forward. We did tell the kids we grew apart and they were confused and they didn’t understand initially. Neither of us ever strayed from that story because it was a complicated situation and they’re kids. And cheating doesn’t happen in a vacuum and there were issues that contributed to it on both sides- complacency with our relationship, taking each other for granted, a loss of respect due to each other’s actions (or more accurately inactions). We let the marriage die. We spent the kids early years totally focused on them, our jobs, the house, the pets and the chores. Our relationship came last. The cheating was a byproduct of that. I don’t condone the actions but having had time to reflect and heal I definitely see the role I played in how our marriage ended. And I can’t with 100% certainty sit here and say that if I wasn’t given a similar opportunity at the time (an attractive person showing me the kind of interest I hadn’t received from my spouse in years, noticing things about me, listening to me and actually paying attention to me as a woman) that I wouldn't have been excited by the attention. Who knows? I’ve had a lot of years to contemplate this and analyze it. I wouldn’t be who I am today if it hadn’t happened to me. And I sure wasn’t going to spend the rest of my time on this earth being a bitter, miserable, angry person. But I go back to my original opinion- there is no good reason for the kids to know about the cheating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone I know who got divorced as a result of cheating and were actually able to move forward with their own lives, take advantage of the new situation and get over the betrayal in a healthy way have no desire for the kids to know the details surrounding the reasons for the divorce, infidelity or otherwise. Healthy, well adjusted people who aren’t living in the past can clearly see how the knowledge of the details could negatively impact the kids. And it should be all about the kids. My XH cheated- after a few years of massive amounts of anger and grief I was able to move forward. I love my new life and I’m happy for him with his new life as well. Kids are thriving, I never talk bad about him and to my knowledge he does the same. I don’t hate him. I wouldn’t be where I am now if he hadn’t cheated. And I have a really, really good life.

A few years of massive anger and grief is a lot to inflict on someone you supposedly loved and took vows with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband had an affair (which did not lead to divorce) and we never told the kids. I would be really cautious to share this with children . . . it feels invasive and vindictive. If Daddy runs off with OW and starts living with her right away, I think that will be obvious to the kids. But if he doesn't leave *for* a particular woman and simply because he made the marriage a big old mess, then I would be focusing on building a healthy coparenting relationship.

IMO marriages don't break down because of affairs; they break down because of what caused the affair. And no, the answer is not "dead bedroom." The answer is whatever personality flaws led one spouse to make the unhealthy choice to cheat rather than the healthy choice to communicate, cope, do self-care, ask for a separation or open marriage, etc. You got divorced because your ex was conflict-avoidant and low on empathy and self-awareness, for example. And those issues will absolutely impact his relationship with the kids going forward, but as an ex it becomes less an issue of you managing that and more an issue of you supporting your kids, modeling healthy adulthood, and setting boundaries where appropriate (no introducing new partners until both exes agree or it's been 6 months, etc.).

Regarding this dead bedroom argument, I do agree that it's unfair to change a marriage into a sexless one unilaterally. Sometimes it can't be helped due to physical limitations, but you can still check in with your partner and go over your options. TBH I think in many ways the classic dead bedroom where one spouse just assumes it's fine and resents that their spouse "badgers" them for sex is very similar to the process through which cheaters justify affairs ("I know it's wrong but s/he's so awful that I don't care"). You always have the choice to demonstrate more empathy, to try harder to communicate, to find ways to connect that satisfy both of you. And if, from that respectful and compassionate place, you decide that your differences are irreconcilable, then you will begin separate lives from a much healthier place.

This is all very insightful. I am the guy people are vilifying above, and you are dead on correct that both my wife's shutting down and my cheating came from conflict avoidant and ultimately selfish decisions. It's good to recognize it so I don't make the same mistake in the future.

I don't agree with the statement that a classic dead bedroom spouse assumes it's just fine. Marriage is based on a premise that you are exclusive. I did not ASSUME that it was fine to have sex less frequently, I THOUGHT my exH was getting older and thus had lower sex drive. I only had 2 other sexual partners prior to him in my 20s, and how the heck I would know what sexual drive of a 55 y.o. man is? I thought he was satisfied having sex 2-4 times/month, and not every day as when he was 35 and I was 24.

But I do agree that affairs happen when one spouse is selfish and ego driven. My exH is an extremely wealthy person (over $25mm net worth). Just like the male PP above, he always "delegated" childcare on me, and was telling he was getting tired from work travel. I did work full time at a lower paying job basically putting my career on back burner. But the full time job+chid care did not give me ANY free time even to THINK about cheating! It never really came across my mind as an option, where I always had a collection of favorite porn videos on my cell phone to do "self-care". Moreover, I would have never divorced just because I needed sex outside marriage or didn't have an O with my exH.

He was not a sex giant by any means: after turning 50, he became selfish in bed. Never gave an an O and preferred unusual locations for sex: on the bathroom sink, shower, dining table, pool etc. Usually, after he had a morning jog in the park on Saturdays. I in turn could not get an O in those theatrical settings: I do need for sex to be in a specific always the same position with me being on top of him, or pillows placed under my back. He just lost interest in this "conservative" sex.

But as we did have sex occasionally, I was too shy to ask him to do what I needed and he seemed not to care.

Wow, there’s your big red flag. You guys have a 11 year age difference. Your husband prioritized getting a hot young girl from the start, of course he was going to want to trade in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband had an affair (which did not lead to divorce) and we never told the kids. I would be really cautious to share this with children . . . it feels invasive and vindictive. If Daddy runs off with OW and starts living with her right away, I think that will be obvious to the kids. But if he doesn't leave *for* a particular woman and simply because he made the marriage a big old mess, then I would be focusing on building a healthy coparenting relationship.

IMO marriages don't break down because of affairs; they break down because of what caused the affair. And no, the answer is not "dead bedroom." The answer is whatever personality flaws led one spouse to make the unhealthy choice to cheat rather than the healthy choice to communicate, cope, do self-care, ask for a separation or open marriage, etc. You got divorced because your ex was conflict-avoidant and low on empathy and self-awareness, for example. And those issues will absolutely impact his relationship with the kids going forward, but as an ex it becomes less an issue of you managing that and more an issue of you supporting your kids, modeling healthy adulthood, and setting boundaries where appropriate (no introducing new partners until both exes agree or it's been 6 months, etc.).

Regarding this dead bedroom argument, I do agree that it's unfair to change a marriage into a sexless one unilaterally. Sometimes it can't be helped due to physical limitations, but you can still check in with your partner and go over your options. TBH I think in many ways the classic dead bedroom where one spouse just assumes it's fine and resents that their spouse "badgers" them for sex is very similar to the process through which cheaters justify affairs ("I know it's wrong but s/he's so awful that I don't care"). You always have the choice to demonstrate more empathy, to try harder to communicate, to find ways to connect that satisfy both of you. And if, from that respectful and compassionate place, you decide that your differences are irreconcilable, then you will begin separate lives from a much healthier place.

This is all very insightful. I am the guy people are vilifying above, and you are dead on correct that both my wife's shutting down and my cheating came from conflict avoidant and ultimately selfish decisions. It's good to recognize it so I don't make the same mistake in the future.

I don't agree with the statement that a classic dead bedroom spouse assumes it's just fine. Marriage is based on a premise that you are exclusive. I did not ASSUME that it was fine to have sex less frequently, I THOUGHT my exH was getting older and thus had lower sex drive. I only had 2 other sexual partners prior to him in my 20s, and how the heck I would know what sexual drive of a 55 y.o. man is? I thought he was satisfied having sex 2-4 times/month, and not every day as when he was 35 and I was 24.

But I do agree that affairs happen when one spouse is selfish and ego driven. My exH is an extremely wealthy person (over $25mm net worth). Just like the male PP above, he always "delegated" childcare on me, and was telling he was getting tired from work travel. I did work full time at a lower paying job basically putting my career on back burner. But the full time job+chid care did not give me ANY free time even to THINK about cheating! It never really came across my mind as an option, where I always had a collection of favorite porn videos on my cell phone to do "self-care". Moreover, I would have never divorced just because I needed sex outside marriage or didn't have an O with my exH.

He was not a sex giant by any means: after turning 50, he became selfish in bed. Never gave an an O and preferred unusual locations for sex: on the bathroom sink, shower, dining table, pool etc. Usually, after he had a morning jog in the park on Saturdays. I in turn could not get an O in those theatrical settings: I do need for sex to be in a specific always the same position with me being on top of him, or pillows placed under my back. He just lost interest in this "conservative" sex.

But as we did have sex occasionally, I was too shy to ask him to do what I needed and he seemed not to care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone I know who got divorced as a result of cheating and were actually able to move forward with their own lives, take advantage of the new situation and get over the betrayal in a healthy way have no desire for the kids to know the details surrounding the reasons for the divorce, infidelity or otherwise. Healthy, well adjusted people who aren’t living in the past can clearly see how the knowledge of the details could negatively impact the kids. And it should be all about the kids. My XH cheated- after a few years of massive amounts of anger and grief I was able to move forward. I love my new life and I’m happy for him with his new life as well. Kids are thriving, I never talk bad about him and to my knowledge he does the same. I don’t hate him. I wouldn’t be where I am now if he hadn’t cheated. And I have a really, really good life.

I think this is normal and what most people think of when they tell their kids they are divorcing because of an affair as well. It's just this one daughter of a mother and cheater who is telling people how awful it was to know but that's because it went on and on and wasn't just a one time conversation. But if you have older kids have you really just told them that you guys split up because you didn't get along? It just seems very fake and I think confusing to the children because they probably did see you getting along for the most part since cheating is secret. That is the discussion. Whether to tell them ever.

Um you have my story incorrect. She was a cheater but that was inconsequential to her general horribleness. I didn’t care about the cheating because by the time I found out (incidentally via finding paperwork in an office inadvertently as a teen), I already knew she was horrible! She had been talking crap about my dad for years and trying to turn me against him.

So my conclusion is that being a narcissist and trying to turn a child against the other parent is much more damaging than cheating to the child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can absolutely be a shock, pp. in many cases, the cheater is hiding the affair, lying, reassuring his spouse everything is fine and in some insidious cases, gaslighting the spouse to make them feel like they are going crazy for having any suspicions at all. Then when it is discovered, they flip a switch and blame everything on the betrayed spouse like it was all their fault ti begin with…. Completely ignoring the fact that they insisted things were fine and they’re was nothing to worry about.

I truly hope you never have to experience this, because it is literally so terrifying and disorienting that you feel like you can’t discern reality from fiction anymore. It’s extreme emotional abuse.

Confirm all this: it's not the cheating itself as much as my exH driving me mad with my suspiciousness that was the hardest! He made me literally believe I was going crazy (whereby I was totally right about his cheating, as I found hard proof 5 years after). He was calling me and our son every day on video from his hotel room on business trips. His AP must had been hiding in a bathroom or something, as I had a full view of the room.

I agree with you and the pp above you. I also had that torment, being told I was so loved and still having regular sex and the mind tricks. I can attest to how disorienting that is, especially when you have been someone two decades and were drawn to their “honesty and integrity”. Lol what a farce.

And, she likely was getting a coffee to call her own husband so they wouldn’t have to hear each other’s say “I love you, can’t wait to get home soon…put the kids on the phone.” To their spouses That would be a little hard for an AP to hear when you have been lying about the state of your marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can absolutely be a shock, pp. in many cases, the cheater is hiding the affair, lying, reassuring his spouse everything is fine and in some insidious cases, gaslighting the spouse to make them feel like they are going crazy for having any suspicions at all. Then when it is discovered, they flip a switch and blame everything on the betrayed spouse like it was all their fault ti begin with…. Completely ignoring the fact that they insisted things were fine and they’re was nothing to worry about.

I truly hope you never have to experience this, because it is literally so terrifying and disorienting that you feel like you can’t discern reality from fiction anymore. It’s extreme emotional abuse.

Confirm all this: it's not the cheating itself as much as my exH driving me mad with my suspiciousness that was the hardest! He made me literally believe I was going crazy (whereby I was totally right about his cheating, as I found hard proof 5 years after). He was calling me and our son every day on video from his hotel room on business trips. His AP must had been hiding in a bathroom or something, as I had a full view of the room.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom made it her mission to let us know the marriage imploded because my dad cheated. It was sort of obvious he cheated because he ended up with his AP.

But she still dwells on it. And I love mom but she has some major issues including likely a narcissistic personality (and I know that is a rare diagnosis but she really fits the bill).

It's one thing to let the kids know if you must, but to dwell on it or to use it to triangulate the kids will backfire

My mom spent many years raging about her father and XH being narcissists. It took me a long time to realize that she was also a narcissist. Can't tell her that, though, as she would never accept it and would just lash out at me.

And yes, everything she said about our dad being a cheater (obvious to us because he ended up with his AP) came from her narcissism and desire to enlist us as allies in her war against him. This is more often than not the reason people insist you must tell the kids (not "honesty" or however they rationalize it).

You’re confusing multiple people jerk poster sorry
No one is insisting on saying anything. The OP was asking if there was a reasonable age to tell them. There is no insist in that ask or others' responses. I feel bad you don't get along with your mom so much. Maybe she is a narcissist. Maybe she just wanted you to acknowledge the cheating was wrong one time. I have no idea. I don't know you or your mom or what you did in detail to try to move forward and by this time I really don't care. I've heard your story too much by now. It's on every page of this thread. We know she was a narcissist already. I don't know why you keep repeating it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone I know who got divorced as a result of cheating and were actually able to move forward with their own lives, take advantage of the new situation and get over the betrayal in a healthy way have no desire for the kids to know the details surrounding the reasons for the divorce, infidelity or otherwise. Healthy, well adjusted people who aren’t living in the past can clearly see how the knowledge of the details could negatively impact the kids. And it should be all about the kids. My XH cheated- after a few years of massive amounts of anger and grief I was able to move forward. I love my new life and I’m happy for him with his new life as well. Kids are thriving, I never talk bad about him and to my knowledge he does the same. I don’t hate him. I wouldn’t be where I am now if he hadn’t cheated. And I have a really, really good life.

I think this is normal and what most people think of when they tell their kids they are divorcing because of an affair as well. It's just this one daughter of a mother and cheater who is telling people how awful it was to know but that's because it went on and on and wasn't just a one time conversation. But if you have older kids have you really just told them that you guys split up because you didn't get along? It just seems very fake and I think confusing to the children because they probably did see you getting along for the most part since cheating is secret. That is the discussion. Whether to tell them ever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom made it her mission to let us know the marriage imploded because my dad cheated. It was sort of obvious he cheated because he ended up with his AP.

But she still dwells on it. And I love mom but she has some major issues including likely a narcissistic personality (and I know that is a rare diagnosis but she really fits the bill).

It's one thing to let the kids know if you must, but to dwell on it or to use it to triangulate the kids will backfire

My mom spent many years raging about her father and XH being narcissists. It took me a long time to realize that she was also a narcissist. Can't tell her that, though, as she would never accept it and would just lash out at me.

And yes, everything she said about our dad being a cheater (obvious to us because he ended up with his AP) came from her narcissism and desire to enlist us as allies in her war against him. This is more often than not the reason people insist you must tell the kids (not "honesty" or however they rationalize it).

Anonymous wrote:My mom made it her mission to let us know the marriage imploded because my dad cheated. It was sort of obvious he cheated because he ended up with his AP.

But she still dwells on it. And I love mom but she has some major issues including likely a narcissistic personality (and I know that is a rare diagnosis but she really fits the bill).

It's one thing to let the kids know if you must, but to dwell on it or to use it to triangulate the kids will backfire

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone I know who got divorced as a result of cheating and were actually able to move forward with their own lives, take advantage of the new situation and get over the betrayal in a healthy way have no desire for the kids to know the details surrounding the reasons for the divorce, infidelity or otherwise. Healthy, well adjusted people who aren’t living in the past can clearly see how the knowledge of the details could negatively impact the kids. And it should be all about the kids. My XH cheated- after a few years of massive amounts of anger and grief I was able to move forward. I love my new life and I’m happy for him with his new life as well. Kids are thriving, I never talk bad about him and to my knowledge he does the same. I don’t hate him. I wouldn’t be where I am now if he hadn’t cheated. And I have a really, really good life.

A few years of massive anger and grief is a lot to inflict on someone you supposedly loved and took vows with.

DP.

Oh please. Humans are not gods. If you think that an oath will prevent a human being from being flawed, don't marry. If you do, the joke is on you.

Does this apply to all oaths? Then why take an oath and vow to hold oneself to a standard in relation to another person?

Everyone who has been cheated on was supposed to know that they would be cheated on, specifically by the person they married who also took the oath to love and honor the person they married??

The joke is on you because you actually trusted another person?

What should a trusting person do? Not believe someone who they do not yet know is a liar?

How about creating a new insurance product, something better than a prenuptial agreement? Everyone could apply and be approved, like directors and officers policies, to prevent financial ruin. There could even be a psychological interview, similar to a blood test for cholesterol for life insurance policies, and if the prospective spouse has a specific number of ACES or admits to cheating in past relationships, then that would impact the premium and help all of the trusting people to understand that the risks of being cheated on ARE real and will cost them significantly in the future. Future children could be listed as beneficiaries, and that's how the kids would could be told and comprehend that one parent broke an agreement, and the other parent did not have to pay more than their fair market share for the loss.