Anonymous wrote:Can we revisit that he paid $30k+ to get the windows?!

That's crazy. I honestly think that if this crime happened exactly how the prosecution alleges it happened, this was about way more than him not wanting his wife around anymore so that it would be easier for him financially and logistically compared to divorce. It was about him truly wanting to commit a complex, brutal murder. Like, he planned this out meticulously for a long time, and spent 30 thousand dollars (not to mention the weapons, the gun range time, the new phones, and other incidentals) to carry it out. It is almost like the motive for the crime was just doing the crime itself, for fun. As opposed to getting rid of his wife- which he could have done for way cheaper, and way easier, and with way less blood and gore and without having to murder a second person in the process. It is terrifying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we revisit that he paid $30k+ to get the windows?!

Why? That’s what that many windows for a house that big would cost. Have you priced windows lately?

Yes, but presumably he didn’t need windows, just got them to dampen the sound.

Eh, the house probably had builder grade windows, so they wanted better, as in the double pane with energy treatment. What they didn’t actually need were the triple pane which was more sound deadening. He had a different reason for wanting that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we revisit that he paid $30k+ to get the windows?!

Why? That’s what that many windows for a house that big would cost. Have you priced windows lately?

Yes, but presumably he didn’t need windows, just got them to dampen the sound.

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Anonymous wrote:A little off topic from the trial itself, but what would have happened if BB set this up so that Christine would be attacked/ r***d by Joe, but not killed? Like, if BB didn't ever plan on being home for any of it, he just wanted to do something horrific to Christine. Would Joe be charged with r*** even if he had no idea that Christine was not a willing participant? I can't imagine his own horror if he realized like, later that day, when the police came banging down his door, that he had accidentally done that to someone who had been set up by her husband. Obviously Christine's trauma would be huge. But I'm also imagining his own trauma here afterwords. And would he be charged, even once the catfishing evidence came to light?

I think that someone in that scenario would likely at least be charged and offered a plea deal or have charges dropped by prosecutors in order to cooperate against whoever solicited that. They are gonna at least get arrested and everything that comes with that. And that is why a lot of people they messaged refused to even entertain the scenario. The prosecutor read off one message in court where someone said something like “there’s no way I would ever go into your house in this scenario. You have to realize how bad that would look for me if your husband showed up.” I’m assuming they learned from these refusals and improved in their ability to manipulate later users including Joe.

This has already happened in real life, and Law & Order did an episode of it as well.

Here’s a story detailing the case of the woman whose exBF solicited a rapist on Craigslist to rape his exGF:
https://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/craigslist-rape-victim

Sick.

Do we know what happened in the time between Joe entered the house and Brendan came home? That's like 10 minutes.

Anonymous wrote:Can we revisit that he paid $30k+ to get the windows?!

Why? That’s what that many windows for a house that big would cost. Have you priced windows lately?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A little off topic from the trial itself, but what would have happened if BB set this up so that Christine would be attacked/ r***d by Joe, but not killed? Like, if BB didn't ever plan on being home for any of it, he just wanted to do something horrific to Christine. Would Joe be charged with r*** even if he had no idea that Christine was not a willing participant? I can't imagine his own horror if he realized like, later that day, when the police came banging down his door, that he had accidentally done that to someone who had been set up by her husband. Obviously Christine's trauma would be huge. But I'm also imagining his own trauma here afterwords. And would he be charged, even once the catfishing evidence came to light?

I think that someone in that scenario would likely at least be charged and offered a plea deal or have charges dropped by prosecutors in order to cooperate against whoever solicited that. They are gonna at least get arrested and everything that comes with that. And that is why a lot of people they messaged refused to even entertain the scenario. The prosecutor read off one message in court where someone said something like “there’s no way I would ever go into your house in this scenario. You have to realize how bad that would look for me if your husband showed up.” I’m assuming they learned from these refusals and improved in their ability to manipulate later users including Joe.

This has already happened in real life, and Law & Order did an episode of it as well.

Here’s a story detailing the case of the woman whose exBF solicited a rapist on Craigslist to rape his exGF:
https://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/craigslist-rape-victim

Can we revisit that he paid $30k+ to get the windows?!

I feel bad for the jurors. They are about to get seriously traumatized with no outlet to process anything. And then deal with their trauma on their own.

Anonymous wrote:A little off topic from the trial itself, but what would have happened if BB set this up so that Christine would be attacked/ r***d by Joe, but not killed? Like, if BB didn't ever plan on being home for any of it, he just wanted to do something horrific to Christine. Would Joe be charged with r*** even if he had no idea that Christine was not a willing participant? I can't imagine his own horror if he realized like, later that day, when the police came banging down his door, that he had accidentally done that to someone who had been set up by her husband. Obviously Christine's trauma would be huge. But I'm also imagining his own trauma here afterwords. And would he be charged, even once the catfishing evidence came to light?

I think that someone in that scenario would likely at least be charged and offered a plea deal or have charges dropped by prosecutors in order to cooperate against whoever solicited that. They are gonna at least get arrested and everything that comes with that. And that is why a lot of people they messaged refused to even entertain the scenario. The prosecutor read off one message in court where someone said something like “there’s no way I would ever go into your house in this scenario. You have to realize how bad that would look for me if your husband showed up.” I’m assuming they learned from these refusals and improved in their ability to manipulate later users including Joe.

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Oh I am absolutely not suggesting that Joe "should have" realized it or anything. I just didn't understand from a trial perspective why the prosecution highlighted that question about the accent, except maybe to preempt the defense pointing it out?

I think maybe the line of reasoning there was to further eliminate the idea that Christine herself was using the account (because we know that the defense plans to use internal confusion/disagreement among investigators early on). Just acknowledging the fact Juliana was using it and certain details that support that. Presumably Joe didn’t comment on that in any of the text based messaging format transcripts though, because investigators would have obviously noticed that. I myself was wondering how they “prevented” that. They seem to have used a text based format again after the call. Brendan at least had to have known that would be recovered off Joe’s devices.

Since they had told Joe to leave his phone in the car, I wonder if BB had planned to remove Joe’s phone from the car before the police would find it.

I assume they told him that so he could not call 911 once things started going downhill. Or, if he realized before BB and au pair showed up, that Christine was not a willing participant and that he'd been set up- if he realized that right away, and had his phone on him, he'd probably have called 911 I assume. Or, Christine could have grabbed his phone during the first moments and called 911 herself. Didn't they hide her phone downstairs so she couldnt call?

Yes, her phone was turned off and hidden in a drawer.

Also, I haven’t read all the transcripts and don’t really want to, but I’m assuming at some point the pretext for the phone thing was concerns about like revenge stuff/unauthorized recording and said that everything would be revoked if a phone came out or something along those lines. Joe was intending this to be a consensual encounter so he clearly would have respected that limit. It was because of Joe’s commitment to respecting limits that they felt they didn’t have to worry about that, tbh.

A little off topic from the trial itself, but what would have happened if BB set this up so that Christine would be attacked/ r***d by Joe, but not killed? Like, if BB didn't ever plan on being home for any of it, he just wanted to do something horrific to Christine. Would Joe be charged with r*** even if he had no idea that Christine was not a willing participant? I can't imagine his own horror if he realized like, later that day, when the police came banging down his door, that he had accidentally done that to someone who had been set up by her husband. Obviously Christine's trauma would be huge. But I'm also imagining his own trauma here afterwords. And would he be charged, even once the catfishing evidence came to light?

Anonymous wrote:

Since they had told Joe to leave his phone in the car, I wonder if BB had planned to remove Joe’s phone from the car before the police would find it.

It seems pretty risky. Brendan isn’t as smart as he thinks he is, but I think he’s smarter than that. I think he told him to leave the phone in the car for the same reason he hid Christine’s in the drawer downstairs, so that if anything didn’t go according to plan or if they started to figure something out then Joe wouldn’t be able to call 911 before he was fatally shot.

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Anonymous wrote:Did the defense ask any questions about whether the forensic experts discovered any evidence that Christine fought back at anytime? Or if she was asleep until she was woken up by the stabbing? I hope the prosecution clears that time gap up because they will definitely show the jury the extent that the murder happened before Joe even started any of the planned fantasy. And it will dispute the claim that BB disrupted Joe attempting to kill Christine.

That doesn’t matter. They have evidence that BB catfished Joe. No one thinks BB tried to save the day.

Agree, but still want to know what happened. Is there any chance she was stabbed before the rape scenario even started?

JPM said that CB shouted "Brendan, he has a knife!"

So clearly CB was conscious when BB entered the room.

That is the most messed up part of this all. Christine is attacked, fears for her life and suddenly her husband is there, he will save her, he shoots him, shock and relief and in an instant her husband is on top of her stabbing her. It’s like the worst dream in the world. How could she even process all of that?

If I were on the jury I’d be angry there’s no court on Fridays. I’ve got my life on hold for this thing, let’s get it done ASAP. It feels really disrespectful to them.

Are they sequestered? I hadn't heard that