Anonymous wrote:^^one other point: the Whitman crew parent's defense of "we just couldn't imagine it" is like what Joe Paterno said in defending his continued support of Jerry Sandusky well after he knew about the allegations. That is, he just couldn't conceive as possible. And again: if you are a parent with oversight of children, *it is your job* to educate yourself and to force yourself to consider these kinds of scenarios. Mandated reporters don't get to say they just couldn't believe something could happen, so they ignored the signs. Ignorance is a poor defense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also shocked that the board took the letter the girls had written and handed it over to the coach. This is a HUGE no no when it comes to abuse allegations. Insane how easily some of them threw these girls under the bus and tried to blame them.

The Washington Post article states specifically that the board members involved apologized for this. According to the article, the board members involved mistakenly believed the letter was meant to be an on-the-record statement and not confidential.

That is far from "[throwing] these girls under the bus and [trying] to blame them."

To the contrary, Shipley was immediately suspended, according to the Post.

He was suspended WITH pay and then while suspended:
talked to parents and board members about the letter
asked former rowers to rally on his behalf
asked people to reach out to the investigator on his behalf
met with board members where he picked apart the girls who signed the letter and called them mentally ill

And then what did the board do? Oh yes, renewed his contract. Um.......

The Post quotes the board as apologizing after the coach's arrest, saying that they were "incredibly sorry for the pain and anguish" experienced by athletes and their families.
I'd say they've acknowledged their mistakes and shown remorse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Post story today was pretty damning

The story was largely told from the point of view of just-graduated and alum rowers and their families.

Perhaps colleges and scholarships were a driving force for them in rowing.

But that is not true of the parents or kids I know on the current team.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also shocked that the board took the letter the girls had written and handed it over to the coach. This is a HUGE no no when it comes to abuse allegations. Insane how easily some of them threw these girls under the bus and tried to blame them.

The Washington Post article states specifically that the board members involved apologized for this. According to the article, the board members involved mistakenly believed the letter was meant to be an on-the-record statement and not confidential.

That is far from "[throwing] these girls under the bus and [trying] to blame them."

To the contrary, Shipley was immediately suspended, according to the Post.

He was suspended WITH pay and then while suspended:
talked to parents and board members about the letter
asked former rowers to rally on his behalf
asked people to reach out to the investigator on his behalf
met with board members where he picked apart the girls who signed the letter and called them mentally ill

And then what did the board do? Oh yes, renewed his contract. Um.......

The Post quotes the board as apologizing after the coach's arrest, saying that they were "incredibly sorry for the pain and anguish" experienced by athletes and their families.
I'd say they've acknowledged their mistakes and shown remorse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also shocked that the board took the letter the girls had written and handed it over to the coach. This is a HUGE no no when it comes to abuse allegations. Insane how easily some of them threw these girls under the bus and tried to blame them.

The Washington Post article states specifically that the board members involved apologized for this. According to the article, the board members involved mistakenly believed the letter was meant to be an on-the-record statement and not confidential.

That is far from "[throwing] these girls under the bus and [trying] to blame them."

To the contrary, Shipley was immediately suspended, according to the Post.

He was suspended WITH pay and then while suspended:
talked to parents and board members about the letter
asked former rowers to rally on his behalf
asked people to reach out to the investigator on his behalf
met with board members where he picked apart the girls who signed the letter and called them mentally ill

And then what did the board do? Oh yes, renewed his contract. Um.......

Anonymous wrote:^^one other point: the Whitman crew parent's defense of "we just couldn't imagine it" is like what Joe Paterno said in defending his continued support of Jerry Sandusky well after he knew about the allegations. That is, he just couldn't conceive as possible. And again: if you are a parent with oversight of children, *it is your job* to educate yourself and to force yourself to consider these kinds of scenarios. Mandated reporters don't get to say they just couldn't believe something could happen, so they ignored the signs. Ignorance is a poor defense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also shocked that the board took the letter the girls had written and handed it over to the coach. This is a HUGE no no when it comes to abuse allegations. Insane how easily some of them threw these girls under the bus and tried to blame them.

That is the MCPS way. Watch out. You will be deleted on this forum for pointing that out.

You know the board in question is not MCPS, right?

You are the only person confused.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also shocked that the board took the letter the girls had written and handed it over to the coach. This is a HUGE no no when it comes to abuse allegations. Insane how easily some of them threw these girls under the bus and tried to blame them.

That is the MCPS way. Watch out. You will be deleted on this forum for pointing that out.

You know the board in question is not MCPS, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also shocked that the board took the letter the girls had written and handed it over to the coach. This is a HUGE no no when it comes to abuse allegations. Insane how easily some of them threw these girls under the bus and tried to blame them.

That is the MCPS way. Watch out. You will be deleted on this forum for pointing that out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still stuck on letting a grown man take all these girls to Airbnb’s for out of town trips with no other adults/parents present. No one working with children should be given this kind of access. There were signs that he was inappropriate and the signs were completely ignored because parents wanted the status and success and scholarship money more than safety for their children. Period.

The problem with this thinking is that it allows you -- us -- to imagine that we are all sooo different from those Whitman parents, that different parents -- better parents -- would have noticed the signs and put a stop to things long ago.

Forget the part where that's a pretty uncharitable caricature of the Whitman community -- but it doesn't keep anyone safer. The fact is -- and this is backed up by research, feel free to google -- that we're all susceptible to manipulation. Predators show up in all kinds of communities. We are all vulnerable, to different degrees. All of our communities are full of individuals and families that are goal-driven, hardworking, that are achieve this or that. Our kindness makes us vulnerable. Our tendency to believe the best of people makes us vulnerable.

There's a litany of human psychological traits that make us easy prey for the most nefarious among us.

So yes to safeguards, yes to learning lessons. But the blame/shame thing here is, at best, not very constructive. And at worst, it's cruel.

Stop wagging your fingers and open your ears. Every community has voices that are marginalized and not listened to. Find the voices at your school. trust me they are there.

Wow! You need therapy that you need this much mental gymnastics to justify that you looked past all the evidence to keep “good admissions “ and left unwitting parents in a position to put their horns in the hands of a predator.

The board held back evidence, justified his actions, protected their interests and created a situation ripe for abuse.

I know a ton of people in high level sports. NOBODY sends students with a coach and no parental oversight. NOBODY.

I'm not a Whitman parent, let alone a Whitman rowing parent.

My point is that what is happening here psychologically is that you and many others in this thread are imagining that Whitman rowing parents are so different from the rest of us, and those essential differences are what accounts for the objectively inappropriate choices, e.g. coach staying in an Airbnb with the kids.

Not saying that is ok. What i am saying is, by imagining that the Whitman rowing parents are so different from the rest of us, that they were uniquely fixated on life's rewards or avoiding life's risks in a way that nobody else is, ignores the fact that the pattern of predation in this story is CLASSIC and happens in every kind of community, rich, poor, white, black, gay, straight. Everywhere.

It is dangerous to assume that the predator was successful because of the unique characteristics of his victims' parents.

It is safer to analyze and become VERY AWARE of HOW they came to trust him, HOW they came to allow things that should not have been allowed.

Knowing ourselves, our vulnerabilities, and becoming very aware of our blind spots is part of how we protect ourselves. Assuming we are "good parents" and it couldn't happen to US is precisely how we let our guard down and give predators the advantage.

Seriously, folks who don't like what I'm saying: Google social predation. Time after time, people report the same thing: We knew him. We trusted him. We had known him for years. His reputation preceded him. Pillar of the community. It was always done this way. Everyone loved him.

And on and on. It may feel good to preach at the shitty Whitman Rowing parents -- and who knows, maybe they all suck, I dunno, don't know them personally -- but personally I am much more interested in how to catch the next guy.

And I am in total agreement that we need to listen to kids and enforce rules of basic safety, e.g. no one-on-one adult-kid interactions, extra safety measures for overnight travel, etc. etc.

And we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that it wouldn't have happened to US. It would. It very well could.

The board had all the information. They kept the information from the parents. (Except 2 apparently)

Parents let children stay in an Airbnb without a chaperone.

The board is responsible for mishandling the information… sharing it with the perpetrator, not trusting the girls.

Parents are responsible for letting their desire for a great school allow them to put their child in harms way.

The Washington Post article states that the coach was suspended right after the girls sent their letter outlining the toxic culture they experienced. So that suggests the board did trust the girls.

No. It suggests the board realized they were going to be sued.

The post article also very clearly delineates between the Board and the 4 long standing board members. The board didn't send the letter to Shipley - the 4 long standing board members did. There was a clique of loyalists to Shipley. That doesn't explain the 13-1 vote, but good on that 1 holdout standing alone.

Anonymous wrote:Post story today was pretty damning

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still stuck on letting a grown man take all these girls to Airbnb’s for out of town trips with no other adults/parents present. No one working with children should be given this kind of access. There were signs that he was inappropriate and the signs were completely ignored because parents wanted the status and success and scholarship money more than safety for their children. Period.

The problem with this thinking is that it allows you -- us -- to imagine that we are all sooo different from those Whitman parents, that different parents -- better parents -- would have noticed the signs and put a stop to things long ago.

Forget the part where that's a pretty uncharitable caricature of the Whitman community -- but it doesn't keep anyone safer. The fact is -- and this is backed up by research, feel free to google -- that we're all susceptible to manipulation. Predators show up in all kinds of communities. We are all vulnerable, to different degrees. All of our communities are full of individuals and families that are goal-driven, hardworking, that are achieve this or that. Our kindness makes us vulnerable. Our tendency to believe the best of people makes us vulnerable.

There's a litany of human psychological traits that make us easy prey for the most nefarious among us.

So yes to safeguards, yes to learning lessons. But the blame/shame thing here is, at best, not very constructive. And at worst, it's cruel.

Stop wagging your fingers and open your ears. Every community has voices that are marginalized and not listened to. Find the voices at your school. trust me they are there.

Wow! You need therapy that you need this much mental gymnastics to justify that you looked past all the evidence to keep “good admissions “ and left unwitting parents in a position to put their horns in the hands of a predator.

The board held back evidence, justified his actions, protected their interests and created a situation ripe for abuse.

I know a ton of people in high level sports. NOBODY sends students with a coach and no parental oversight. NOBODY.

I'm not a Whitman parent, let alone a Whitman rowing parent.

My point is that what is happening here psychologically is that you and many others in this thread are imagining that Whitman rowing parents are so different from the rest of us, and those essential differences are what accounts for the objectively inappropriate choices, e.g. coach staying in an Airbnb with the kids.

Not saying that is ok. What i am saying is, by imagining that the Whitman rowing parents are so different from the rest of us, that they were uniquely fixated on life's rewards or avoiding life's risks in a way that nobody else is, ignores the fact that the pattern of predation in this story is CLASSIC and happens in every kind of community, rich, poor, white, black, gay, straight. Everywhere.

It is dangerous to assume that the predator was successful because of the unique characteristics of his victims' parents.

It is safer to analyze and become VERY AWARE of HOW they came to trust him, HOW they came to allow things that should not have been allowed.

Knowing ourselves, our vulnerabilities, and becoming very aware of our blind spots is part of how we protect ourselves. Assuming we are "good parents" and it couldn't happen to US is precisely how we let our guard down and give predators the advantage.

Seriously, folks who don't like what I'm saying: Google social predation. Time after time, people report the same thing: We knew him. We trusted him. We had known him for years. His reputation preceded him. Pillar of the community. It was always done this way. Everyone loved him.

And on and on. It may feel good to preach at the shitty Whitman Rowing parents -- and who knows, maybe they all suck, I dunno, don't know them personally -- but personally I am much more interested in how to catch the next guy.

And I am in total agreement that we need to listen to kids and enforce rules of basic safety, e.g. no one-on-one adult-kid interactions, extra safety measures for overnight travel, etc. etc.

And we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that it wouldn't have happened to US. It would. It very well could.

The board had all the information. They kept the information from the parents. (Except 2 apparently)

Parents let children stay in an Airbnb without a chaperone.

The board is responsible for mishandling the information… sharing it with the perpetrator, not trusting the girls.

Parents are responsible for letting their desire for a great school allow them to put their child in harms way.

The Washington Post article states that the coach was suspended right after the girls sent their letter outlining the toxic culture they experienced. So that suggests the board did trust the girls.

No. It suggests the board realized they were going to be sued.