Anonymous wrote:Where do this kids in diapers and non verbal come from? Are they illegal immigrants? Or do they come from generational poverty?
I can’t explain lack of previous supports and care otherwise

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do this kids in diapers and non verbal come from? Are they illegal immigrants? Or do they come from generational poverty?
I can’t explain lack of previous supports and care otherwise

We got a new kindergarten student today who was in diapers and mostly non-verbal. His mom said the babysitter didn't potty train him. He was completely attached to mom's phone. I heard him screaming in the hallway and I assumed it was when his mom left. Nope. She took the phone away and he screamed bloody murder. His birthday was about a week ago so they decided to put him in pre-k. He will come in tomorrow for an hour and see if he will actually go into the classroom and sit with his mom there. He scratched and bruised some admin trying to help out today.

Anonymous wrote:Where do this kids in diapers and non verbal come from? Are they illegal immigrants? Or do they come from generational poverty?
I can’t explain lack of previous supports and care otherwise

Anonymous wrote:Where do this kids in diapers and non verbal come from? Are they illegal immigrants? Or do they come from generational poverty?
I can’t explain lack of previous supports and care otherwise

Anonymous wrote:Where do this kids in diapers and non verbal come from? Are they illegal immigrants? Or do they come from generational poverty?
I can’t explain lack of previous supports and care otherwise

Anonymous wrote:Where do this kids in diapers and non verbal come from? Are they illegal immigrants? Or do they come from generational poverty?
I can’t explain lack of previous supports and care otherwise

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, you keep going after this golden carrot of rewarding the "good" teachers. How do you know if a teacher is good? Research shows that there is no way to determine that quantitively and in an unbiased way.

There is no effective way to evaluate teachers because there is no effective way to equalize the product, which is students.

Research shows that students from high socio-economic families do appreciably better on standardized tests than students from low socio-economic families. Therefore, teachers who teach in high socio-economic schools will always outperform teachers who teach in low socio-economic schools because teachers in high socio-economic schools are working with a population that is already ahead.

Then you must consider other factors that can negatively or positively impact students, and teachers working in low socio-economic schools always come out on the bottom. You can have the greatest teacher in the world but put that teacher in a classroom with students who are worried about where they're going to sleep that night, or who are so hungry they are about to faint, or who slept outside and don't have access to a toilet so they have to poop so badly that they can't concentrate, or ... well, you get the picture.

It is an uphill battle.

Great minds have been working at the teacher evaluation process for decades and have been stymied. Even the Gates foundation attempted to do refine the teacher evaluation process and had to stop in defeat. In fact, the ASA put out a study two or three years ago that shows that teacher quality accounts for only 18% of student performance; the rest of student performance is determined by other factors. That's pretty staggering.

Instead of beating the dead horse with your "we'll only pay the good teachers" bit, you should be more focused on how we improve the whole system. When you open your mind, PP, and look at the research, you'll see that your method won't work. So take some time off, readjust your attitude and come back with you're in a more open frame of mind.

DP

how do we evaluate doctors and nurses?

Judging from online reviews, it's a popularity contest. I'm afraid I'd rather get the Dr who catches the nuances of my nascent disease than the one who can tell a good joke and makes me feel sunny, thank you very much

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe that there still aren’t protests in the streets from teachers about least restrictive environment. Yet they’re stressed out and quitting in droves. Do you guys not realize that the public would be behind you on this? You just need to make some noise so lawmakers notice the problem and start asking the public what they want. Laws can be changed.

You want schools to segregate kids with developmental disabilities into separate classrooms? No, the public would not be behind you on that. Particularly not once parents of those children told their side of it.

The “f ‘em” attitude that the DMV has for children with autism, ADHD, and other developmental disorders is pretty incredible. Particularly from teachers.

Yes, we want disruptive kids in separate classes. Yes, the “public” would go for that.

I agree. While there is sympathy for kids with developmental disabilities, we've gone overboard in accommodating them. Yes, we should provide support in place for those who need help, but are not disruptive. But at this point, there are quite a number of very violent, tempermental and disruptive children with various special needs who should not be accommodated in the classroom with NT children. As I mentioned above, my child was in a class with one of these children and 25 children had significant disruptions to their class. Many children that shared a class with this child had physical injuries from this child's tantrums (including mine). But the child's IEP said that they needed to handle the child in class. On numerous occasions when he had one of his fits, 25 other children had to file out into the hallway and spend half of a class in the hallway while a specialist that was not in the class had to come and calm him down sufficient to allow the class to resume. Children were frequently struck by thrown items: books, toys, furniture. On one day, a $400 chromebook was thrown on the ground.

Children who become physically disruptive and aggressive need to be removed from the regular classrooms. Public schools should NOT be required to handle such children in the mainstream classrooms.

Yes, the majority of the public would be behind that. Not all learning disabled children are equal and can be equally handled by instructors without special training and they should not have to.

I only speak for myself as the parent to a special needs child, we would love if our children were in settings that did not create a recipe for a meltdown and disruption. The current system is a failure based system. Until our children lose control, meltdown, show they aren't learning or aren't progressing or any other major documented failure, they are not given any resources or placement in an "appropriate for them" setting.

Please remember that a disruptive child is probably not a happy and learning child. If they are disabled, like my own, there are frustrated and heartbroken parents begging for help for the child as well.

We all want the best for our children.

+1 We need universal design for learning principles/technologies in the classrooms to more readily accommodate the 85%+ situations where that is all that is needed for students with disabilities--just make it matter of course for all students so it's seamless no need for a lot of current IEPs. Then layer that with some IEPs that add additional supports for the remaining 12% or so of students with disabilities who can be successful with a little more support beyond universal design for learning. The remaining 3% or so of students with disabilities who cannot currently successfully function in a mainstream classroom regardless of reasonable supports would have more targeted, intensive supports in a separate setting that would increase the chance they will be able to find success in the mainstream classroom but don't disrupt the learning environment for others in the moment. As it currently stands the classrooms do not follow Universal Design principles, triggering more meltdowns and difficulties learning than needed, teachers are overwhelmed by the number and the demands of IEPs, and the squeaky wheel parents of kids with disabilities are getting the resources while many of those who need them most are not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, you keep going after this golden carrot of rewarding the "good" teachers. How do you know if a teacher is good? Research shows that there is no way to determine that quantitively and in an unbiased way.

There is no effective way to evaluate teachers because there is no effective way to equalize the product, which is students.

Research shows that students from high socio-economic families do appreciably better on standardized tests than students from low socio-economic families. Therefore, teachers who teach in high socio-economic schools will always outperform teachers who teach in low socio-economic schools because teachers in high socio-economic schools are working with a population that is already ahead.

Then you must consider other factors that can negatively or positively impact students, and teachers working in low socio-economic schools always come out on the bottom. You can have the greatest teacher in the world but put that teacher in a classroom with students who are worried about where they're going to sleep that night, or who are so hungry they are about to faint, or who slept outside and don't have access to a toilet so they have to poop so badly that they can't concentrate, or ... well, you get the picture.

It is an uphill battle.

Great minds have been working at the teacher evaluation process for decades and have been stymied. Even the Gates foundation attempted to do refine the teacher evaluation process and had to stop in defeat. In fact, the ASA put out a study two or three years ago that shows that teacher quality accounts for only 18% of student performance; the rest of student performance is determined by other factors. That's pretty staggering.

Instead of beating the dead horse with your "we'll only pay the good teachers" bit, you should be more focused on how we improve the whole system. When you open your mind, PP, and look at the research, you'll see that your method won't work. So take some time off, readjust your attitude and come back with you're in a more open frame of mind.

DP

how do we evaluate doctors and nurses?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe that there still aren’t protests in the streets from teachers about least restrictive environment. Yet they’re stressed out and quitting in droves. Do you guys not realize that the public would be behind you on this? You just need to make some noise so lawmakers notice the problem and start asking the public what they want. Laws can be changed.

You want schools to segregate kids with developmental disabilities into separate classrooms? No, the public would not be behind you on that. Particularly not once parents of those children told their side of it.

The “f ‘em” attitude that the DMV has for children with autism, ADHD, and other developmental disorders is pretty incredible. Particularly from teachers.

Yes, we want disruptive kids in separate classes. Yes, the “public” would go for that.

I agree. While there is sympathy for kids with developmental disabilities, we've gone overboard in accommodating them. Yes, we should provide support in place for those who need help, but are not disruptive. But at this point, there are quite a number of very violent, tempermental and disruptive children with various special needs who should not be accommodated in the classroom with NT children. As I mentioned above, my child was in a class with one of these children and 25 children had significant disruptions to their class. Many children that shared a class with this child had physical injuries from this child's tantrums (including mine). But the child's IEP said that they needed to handle the child in class. On numerous occasions when he had one of his fits, 25 other children had to file out into the hallway and spend half of a class in the hallway while a specialist that was not in the class had to come and calm him down sufficient to allow the class to resume. Children were frequently struck by thrown items: books, toys, furniture. On one day, a $400 chromebook was thrown on the ground.

Children who become physically disruptive and aggressive need to be removed from the regular classrooms. Public schools should NOT be required to handle such children in the mainstream classrooms.

Yes, the majority of the public would be behind that. Not all learning disabled children are equal and can be equally handled by instructors without special training and they should not have to.

I only speak for myself as the parent to a special needs child, we would love if our children were in settings that did not create a recipe for a meltdown and disruption. The current system is a failure based system. Until our children lose control, meltdown, show they aren't learning or aren't progressing or any other major documented failure, they are not given any resources or placement in an "appropriate for them" setting.

Please remember that a disruptive child is probably not a happy and learning child. If they are disabled, like my own, there are frustrated and heartbroken parents begging for help for the child as well.

We all want the best for our children.

+1 We need universal design for learning principles/technologies in the classrooms to more readily accommodate the 85%+ situations where that is all that is needed for students with disabilities--just make it matter of course for all students so it's seamless no need for a lot of current IEPs. Then layer that with some IEPs that add additional supports for the remaining 12% or so of students with disabilities who can be successful with a little more support beyond universal design for learning. The remaining 3% or so of students with disabilities who cannot currently successfully function in a mainstream classroom regardless of reasonable supports would have more targeted, intensive supports in a separate setting that would increase the chance they will be able to find success in the mainstream classroom but don't disrupt the learning environment for others in the moment. As it currently stands the classrooms do not follow Universal Design principles, triggering more meltdowns and difficulties learning than needed, teachers are overwhelmed by the number and the demands of IEPs, and the squeaky wheel parents of kids with disabilities are getting the resources while many of those who need them most are not.

Agreed. I'm the PP with the son who was abused by the dysfunctional special needs child. In addition to this dysfunctional child, there were several (I think about 3-4) children who had mild special needs and needed some basic accommodations that were normally easy to accommodate. In the normal course of school, one para-educator would stop in once or twice per day and would help those children or would figure out what those children needed and communicate with the regular teacher to make sure that they were aware of things that were needed. Once the paraeducator was assigned 1:1 to this dysfunctional child, the other mild special needs children were not getting nearly the amount of attention they were getting before. They essentially went from a supportive environment to a minimum support environment where only the basics that were already spelled out in their IEPs or 504s were handled and nothing else. So, the extra in-class attention towards the one dysfunctional child actually had the biggest effect on the other special needs children who lost the extra support that they had been getting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe that there still aren’t protests in the streets from teachers about least restrictive environment. Yet they’re stressed out and quitting in droves. Do you guys not realize that the public would be behind you on this? You just need to make some noise so lawmakers notice the problem and start asking the public what they want. Laws can be changed.

You want schools to segregate kids with developmental disabilities into separate classrooms? No, the public would not be behind you on that. Particularly not once parents of those children told their side of it.

The “f ‘em” attitude that the DMV has for children with autism, ADHD, and other developmental disorders is pretty incredible. Particularly from teachers.

Yes, we want disruptive kids in separate classes. Yes, the “public” would go for that.

I agree. While there is sympathy for kids with developmental disabilities, we've gone overboard in accommodating them. Yes, we should provide support in place for those who need help, but are not disruptive. But at this point, there are quite a number of very violent, tempermental and disruptive children with various special needs who should not be accommodated in the classroom with NT children. As I mentioned above, my child was in a class with one of these children and 25 children had significant disruptions to their class. Many children that shared a class with this child had physical injuries from this child's tantrums (including mine). But the child's IEP said that they needed to handle the child in class. On numerous occasions when he had one of his fits, 25 other children had to file out into the hallway and spend half of a class in the hallway while a specialist that was not in the class had to come and calm him down sufficient to allow the class to resume. Children were frequently struck by thrown items: books, toys, furniture. On one day, a $400 chromebook was thrown on the ground.

Children who become physically disruptive and aggressive need to be removed from the regular classrooms. Public schools should NOT be required to handle such children in the mainstream classrooms.

Yes, the majority of the public would be behind that. Not all learning disabled children are equal and can be equally handled by instructors without special training and they should not have to.

I only speak for myself as the parent to a special needs child, we would love if our children were in settings that did not create a recipe for a meltdown and disruption. The current system is a failure based system. Until our children lose control, meltdown, show they aren't learning or aren't progressing or any other major documented failure, they are not given any resources or placement in an "appropriate for them" setting.

Please remember that a disruptive child is probably not a happy and learning child. If they are disabled, like my own, there are frustrated and heartbroken parents begging for help for the child as well.

We all want the best for our children.

+1 We need universal design for learning principles/technologies in the classrooms to more readily accommodate the 85%+ situations where that is all that is needed for students with disabilities--just make it matter of course for all students so it's seamless no need for a lot of current IEPs. Then layer that with some IEPs that add additional supports for the remaining 12% or so of students with disabilities who can be successful with a little more support beyond universal design for learning. The remaining 3% or so of students with disabilities who cannot currently successfully function in a mainstream classroom regardless of reasonable supports would have more targeted, intensive supports in a separate setting that would increase the chance they will be able to find success in the mainstream classroom but don't disrupt the learning environment for others in the moment. As it currently stands the classrooms do not follow Universal Design principles, triggering more meltdowns and difficulties learning than needed, teachers are overwhelmed by the number and the demands of IEPs, and the squeaky wheel parents of kids with disabilities are getting the resources while many of those who need them most are not.

Agreed. I'm the PP with the son who was abused by the dysfunctional special needs child. In addition to this dysfunctional child, there were several (I think about 3-4) children who had mild special needs and needed some basic accommodations that were normally easy to accommodate. In the normal course of school, one para-educator would stop in once or twice per day and would help those children or would figure out what those children needed and communicate with the regular teacher to make sure that they were aware of things that were needed. Once the paraeducator was assigned 1:1 to this dysfunctional child, the other mild special needs children were not getting nearly the amount of attention they were getting before. They essentially went from a supportive environment to a minimum support environment where only the basics that were already spelled out in their IEPs or 504s were handled and nothing else. So, the extra in-class attention towards the one dysfunctional child actually had the biggest effect on the other special needs children who lost the extra support that they had been getting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe that there still aren’t protests in the streets from teachers about least restrictive environment. Yet they’re stressed out and quitting in droves. Do you guys not realize that the public would be behind you on this? You just need to make some noise so lawmakers notice the problem and start asking the public what they want. Laws can be changed.

You want schools to segregate kids with developmental disabilities into separate classrooms? No, the public would not be behind you on that. Particularly not once parents of those children told their side of it.

The “f ‘em” attitude that the DMV has for children with autism, ADHD, and other developmental disorders is pretty incredible. Particularly from teachers.

Yes, we want disruptive kids in separate classes. Yes, the “public” would go for that.

I agree. While there is sympathy for kids with developmental disabilities, we've gone overboard in accommodating them. Yes, we should provide support in place for those who need help, but are not disruptive. But at this point, there are quite a number of very violent, tempermental and disruptive children with various special needs who should not be accommodated in the classroom with NT children. As I mentioned above, my child was in a class with one of these children and 25 children had significant disruptions to their class. Many children that shared a class with this child had physical injuries from this child's tantrums (including mine). But the child's IEP said that they needed to handle the child in class. On numerous occasions when he had one of his fits, 25 other children had to file out into the hallway and spend half of a class in the hallway while a specialist that was not in the class had to come and calm him down sufficient to allow the class to resume. Children were frequently struck by thrown items: books, toys, furniture. On one day, a $400 chromebook was thrown on the ground.

Children who become physically disruptive and aggressive need to be removed from the regular classrooms. Public schools should NOT be required to handle such children in the mainstream classrooms.

Yes, the majority of the public would be behind that. Not all learning disabled children are equal and can be equally handled by instructors without special training and they should not have to.

I only speak for myself as the parent to a special needs child, we would love if our children were in settings that did not create a recipe for a meltdown and disruption. The current system is a failure based system. Until our children lose control, meltdown, show they aren't learning or aren't progressing or any other major documented failure, they are not given any resources or placement in an "appropriate for them" setting.

Please remember that a disruptive child is probably not a happy and learning child. If they are disabled, like my own, there are frustrated and heartbroken parents begging for help for the child as well.

We all want the best for our children.

+1 We need universal design for learning principles/technologies in the classrooms to more readily accommodate the 85%+ situations where that is all that is needed for students with disabilities--just make it matter of course for all students so it's seamless no need for a lot of current IEPs. Then layer that with some IEPs that add additional supports for the remaining 12% or so of students with disabilities who can be successful with a little more support beyond universal design for learning. The remaining 3% or so of students with disabilities who cannot currently successfully function in a mainstream classroom regardless of reasonable supports would have more targeted, intensive supports in a separate setting that would increase the chance they will be able to find success in the mainstream classroom but don't disrupt the learning environment for others in the moment. As it currently stands the classrooms do not follow Universal Design principles, triggering more meltdowns and difficulties learning than needed, teachers are overwhelmed by the number and the demands of IEPs, and the squeaky wheel parents of kids with disabilities are getting the resources while many of those who need them most are not.