Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one must have been that worried about that lake. Disney even offers water activities including tubing for children:

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/resorts/bay-lake-tower-at-contemporary/recreation/

This is all the same beach/lake that the surrounding hotels are on.

Oh dear.

Though in other vacation spots, the Outer Banks, for example, there is parasailing and tubing and there are sharks in the water, so I guess it is the same risk?

However, i think the common person knows there are sharks in the ocean. Not sure common people know there are crocs at Disney (I never gave it any thought).

This is the problem. Disney is not some self-contained island. Disney is in Florida. Florida has gators. Hence, Disney has gators.

This was a Disney-made lagoon in a Disney resort. I would absolutely assume that if there were gators, Disney would not let anyone near it or at a BARE MINIMUM would have barriers and signs warning of the risk. I know there are alligators in Florida, but I would trust Disney to control or at least warn people of the risks.

It would probably be impossible for Disney to 100% contain wildlife in their waters. I don't understand how this is hard to understand.

snatch, not snack. Oops, awful.

Anonymous wrote:I'll take it one step further. Hell this one shows people actively in the water:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mousellaneous.org%2Fsitebuilder%2Fimages%2FGrandFl-304x236.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mousellaneous.org%2Fresorts%2Fdeluxe%2Fgf.html&docid=PJWvmA_ZmnQHoM&tbnid=7f9vdgqFXvPX_M%3A&w=304&h=236&bih=923&biw=1280&ved=0ahUKEwj0paDnuqrNAhUGDSwKHTSSAkYQMwhlKEEwQQ&iact=mrc&uact=8

A problem for sure BUT that's during the day. While I think going in at any time is a problem, at least during the day you can see a bit better. You can't see anything at night.

Yes, Disney will be held liable. Although there are alligators in Florida, Disney has set up that beach as a place to hang out for young children. Children will put their feet in water. the alligator is completely able to come up on the shore and snack a child. There are no signs that say Danger: alligators. Once it gets in front of a jury -- right or wrong -- they will go crazy with an award. Disney will settle out of court. Disney would look heartless in the media and besides very unsafe. Also it could easily be argued that they knew that alligators could and would go into those lake and that it was their responsibility to keep the alligators removed by whatever means. That will be very difficult, but still it will be the argument. The shorelines of Disney may change forever over this.

Florida is such a pit. Alligators eating children, anti-gay/ISIS inspired mass shootings, oh, and let's not forget the human-devouring sink holes. Remember those?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How dumb are these parents? Who in the United States doesn't know that ANY body of water in FL (besides the ocean), no matter how pretty or inviting it may seem likely has gators and/or venomous things. I love that we're splitting hairs between swimming and wading, when this child shouldn't have been touching water, period. Even if the signs don't say it - why risk it?

Wonder how close the dad was to the kid - bc I would think a dad standing right there could grab the kid under the armpits end pull hard enough to pull him out. Though I guess that also depends on the gators grip.

Sad but I don't want to see Disney paying out huge sums here.

Okay, for one thing, if you believe that every single person in the US is aware of the dangers of alligators in Florida, you are a moron. Full stop.

Secondly, even if this kid was standing 12 inches away, not touching the water, the alligator still could have gotten him.

Really? I would wager that people who don't know about gators in Florida are the idiots.

Yes, I know that you would wager that. Because you don't know shit about how the world works.

We're not talking about the world. We're talking about the US. And if the US school system hasn't taught families well off enough to visit Disney that there are gators in Florida, they're morons.

I am highly educated. I live in New England and visit beaches nearly every day. I am aware that alligators live in Florida, and specifically in the Everglades. I would never dream that there are alligators at the shoreline of a Disney advertised "white sands" beach where families are encouraged to play and watch fireworks. Absent signage saying "No Wading" due to bacteria, alligators, whatever, my 2 year old would certainly have been allowed to go in the water up to his ankles as I stood nearby.

There but by the grace of God go I. Just horrifying.

This is what confuses me. Why is Disney somehow separate from Florida? Is it not in Florida? How would you reasonably expect them to ensure there is no wildlife in their waters? Seriously. How?

We all know how Disney is so meticulous about controlling things, creating a sterile fantasy, that I would think Disney would not deign to allow wildlife in its man-made lagoon next to a man-made lake at a family resort.

Florida wildlife and game commissioner has stated that Disney was very responsible in removing alligators and working with his agency. Sheriff said the same thing. If there is a trial, these two would be strong witnesses for Disney. I don't envision a quickie settlement so many of you imagine. Florida also has a comparable negligence defense, which the jury can determines if parents were also negligent in any way. If so, how much were the negligent.

That's if the suit goes to trial. I don't think Disney or the family is culpable, but I do think Disney will compensate the family. Their loss happened at Disney -- Disney will give them money, not an admission of guilt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Disney knew there was a chance of gators being there and knew that, if they put a sign up warning of that, people would not want to stay there. I wouldn't.

That's asinine.

Really? See the 12:17 post about marketing vs legal. That is what I am talking about.

"No swimming, steep drop off" does not say to me, "An alligator may come up and snatch your child if he is dipping his toes in the water 12" away from the sand."

To me (and I think most people with half a working brain) the signs mean "stay out of the water due to various risks."

Those risk could be a number of things:
- drowning
- gators or other wildlife
- bacteria, brain eating amoeba, chemicals, etc
- sharp rocks
- etc
- or all of the above

Most people don't need it to be itemized. They see a sign like that, and they know to stay out of the water. It doesn't look like play-able water to begin with, but the signs reinforce that. It's basic common sense.

There is a huge difference between a "keep out" sign and a "no swimming, deep water" sign. Again, you must be a troll.

How dare someone suggest that one use common sense instead of needing everything itemized and literalized - they must be a troll!

Do you know the difference between "no swimming" and "keep out?" Do you even know what "swimming" means? Your definition of no swimming is a hell of a lot more inclusive than what it really means.

The beach near my house has a sign that says no swimming. If I decide to lay my towel, or walk along the edge of the water and I get snatched by a killer whale, then I should have known it would was a possibility b/c of a no swimming sign? B**** please.

Um. Now you're really stretching. One of these things is not like the other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How dumb are these parents? Who in the United States doesn't know that ANY body of water in FL (besides the ocean), no matter how pretty or inviting it may seem likely has gators and/or venomous things. I love that we're splitting hairs between swimming and wading, when this child shouldn't have been touching water, period. Even if the signs don't say it - why risk it?

Wonder how close the dad was to the kid - bc I would think a dad standing right there could grab the kid under the armpits end pull hard enough to pull him out. Though I guess that also depends on the gators grip.

Sad but I don't want to see Disney paying out huge sums here.

Okay, for one thing, if you believe that every single person in the US is aware of the dangers of alligators in Florida, you are a moron. Full stop.

Secondly, even if this kid was standing 12 inches away, not touching the water, the alligator still could have gotten him.

Really? I would wager that people who don't know about gators in Florida are the idiots.

Yes, I know that you would wager that. Because you don't know shit about how the world works.

We're not talking about the world. We're talking about the US. And if the US school system hasn't taught families well off enough to visit Disney that there are gators in Florida, they're morons.

I am highly educated. I live in New England and visit beaches nearly every day. I am aware that alligators live in Florida, and specifically in the Everglades. I would never dream that there are alligators at the shoreline of a Disney advertised "white sands" beach where families are encouraged to play and watch fireworks. Absent signage saying "No Wading" due to bacteria, alligators, whatever, my 2 year old would certainly have been allowed to go in the water up to his ankles as I stood nearby.

There but by the grace of God go I. Just horrifying.

This is what confuses me. Why is Disney somehow separate from Florida? Is it not in Florida? How would you reasonably expect them to ensure there is no wildlife in their waters? Seriously. How?

We all know how Disney is so meticulous about controlling things, creating a sterile fantasy, that I would think Disney would not deign to allow wildlife in its man-made lagoon next to a man-made lake at a family resort.

Florida wildlife and game commissioner has stated that Disney was very responsible in removing alligators and working with his agency. Sheriff said the same thing. If there is a trial, these two would be strong witnesses for Disney. I don't envision a quickie settlement so many of you imagine. Florida also has a comparable negligence defense, which the jury can determines if parents were also negligent in any way. If so, how much were the negligent.

I would imagine that a Florida jury would be less sympathetic to people not knowing about the presence of alligators in their state/waters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the parents thought no swimming meant no swimming, but wading is okay.

I'd probably be this way. I'd think, "Oh, the signs are there b/c it's too dangerous to swim, but wading does not count as swimming."

We were there last year and that's exactly what I thought. I let my kids wade and fill their bucket from the water. Now I think it was a bad decision, but at the time I didn't. I wish the signs had said "no going in the water" or something more than "no swimming," which is all they said.

We've been there and I never in a million years would have thought that would happen.

We also have vacationed in Florida at the ocean near lakes and lagoons that have gator warnings posted.
No incidents. I assume they have plenty to eat off the coast in a more natural, less populated area (this is gulf coast).

This is a rare, unexpected incident where many stars must have unfortunately aligned - hungry gator, maybe splashing around during feeding time:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/m/#publication?id=UW230

That article gives some clues as to where its prey might have been taken.

When we visit the beaches in Florida they warn you not to do things like go out very far in the ocean during shark feeding time (dusk), not to wear sparkly jewelry, not to go out when bleeding - so as to not be mistaken for a meal.
It seems like Disney should have had some warnings up and taken greater precautions during alligator feeding times - it says that they lay motionless in the water in the dark waiting to pounce on prey? With little gator sized morsels running about and playing on the beach and in the shallow end? Seems like the beach should have been closed to barriers should have been up (10-20 feet out?).
If there weren't signs up I would have assumed that Disney had taken care of things somehow.

Anonymous wrote:1. A "no swimming" sign is not sufficient to cover the risks associated with alligator attacks. That child could have been killed simply walking near the edge of the water.

2. It's not reasonable to expect resort guests coming from Europe, Canada, or yes even Nebraska to know how prevelant alligators are, especially on Disney property where a beach has been set up.

3. Disney was grossly negligent and WILL pay up the a$$ including to this who just witnessed the attack. That's guaranteed.

Exactly. If the child had slipped into the water while the parents weren't looking (or the parents allowed the child to swim) and he drowned, that would be a different story. But there is zero warning of alligators and Disney is in a much better position than it's guests from all over the world to know what may lurk in the lake. And I highly doubt the child would have been safe even if he had been 6 inches outside the water. Gators will come up on land, especially at night, and snatch small creatures.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. A "no swimming" sign is not sufficient to cover the risks associated with alligator attacks. That child could have been killed simply walking near the edge of the water.

2. It's not reasonable to expect resort guests coming from Europe, Canada, or yes even Nebraska to know how prevelant alligators are, especially on Disney property where a beach has been set up.

3. Disney was grossly negligent and WILL pay up the a$$ including to this who just witnessed the attack. That's guaranteed.

I disagree. And, I would also say that anyone who doesn't know that Florida has alligators is an imbecile. It's practically the first thing you think of!

Here's the thing - even if you know "Florida has alligators" you may not be familiar with alligator behavior. If a sign says "no swimming", and you make the logic leap that you should not swim due to alligators, you might think your kid is safe WALKING IN LESS THAN A FOOT OF WATER, because that is not swimming. Maybe you think alligators are like sharks - and someone might not swim on account of a shark in the water, but they'd probably walk along the beach and not fear a shark attack. Signage was inadequate and inappropriate to the threat.

I'm really trying to understand this mindset. Alligators are a pretty popular animal. Even if you don't know everything about their behavior, I would argue that the basic stuff is known to ADULTS. I'm really trying to understand this idea that alligators are some weird and mysterious animal.

How familiar do you expect Nebraskans to be with alligator behavior? I had no idea alligators were this aggressive. I thought they mostly left people alone.

Ugh, as much as a Virginian knows to be worried about scorpions? I know that if I'm in the SE, to check my shoes and clothing, even though I've never seen a scorpion. But it is basic common sense.

Is your only experience with crocs is a cuddly stuffed animal? How does someone make it to adulthood not knowing these basic things?

Anonymous wrote:Another pic of the beach:

https://sheila0gh.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/imgp9761.jpg

If it was such common knowledge that alligators were there why let any children near the edge such as the one pictured here? Looks to me like everyone thought it was pretty safe.

OMG, that water looks creepy as hell. Going in at night? No way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Disney knew there was a chance of gators being there and knew that, if they put a sign up warning of that, people would not want to stay there. I wouldn't.

That's asinine.

Really? See the 12:17 post about marketing vs legal. That is what I am talking about.

"No swimming, steep drop off" does not say to me, "An alligator may come up and snatch your child if he is dipping his toes in the water 12" away from the sand."

To me (and I think most people with half a working brain) the signs mean "stay out of the water due to various risks."

Those risk could be a number of things:
- drowning
- gators or other wildlife
- bacteria, brain eating amoeba, chemicals, etc
- sharp rocks
- etc
- or all of the above

Most people don't need it to be itemized. They see a sign like that, and they know to stay out of the water. It doesn't look like play-able water to begin with, but the signs reinforce that. It's basic common sense.

There is a huge difference between a "keep out" sign and a "no swimming, deep water" sign. Again, you must be a troll.

How dare someone suggest that one use common sense instead of needing everything itemized and literalized - they must be a troll!

Do you know the difference between "no swimming" and "keep out?" Do you even know what "swimming" means? Your definition of no swimming is a hell of a lot more inclusive than what it really means.

The beach near my house has a sign that says no swimming. If I decide to lay my towel, or walk along the edge of the water and I get snatched by a killer whale, then I should have known it would was a possibility b/c of a no swimming sign? B**** please.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. A "no swimming" sign is not sufficient to cover the risks associated with alligator attacks. That child could have been killed simply walking near the edge of the water.

2. It's not reasonable to expect resort guests coming from Europe, Canada, or yes even Nebraska to know how prevelant alligators are, especially on Disney property where a beach has been set up.

3. Disney was grossly negligent and WILL pay up the a$$ including to this who just witnessed the attack. That's guaranteed.

I disagree. And, I would also say that anyone who doesn't know that Florida has alligators is an imbecile. It's practically the first thing you think of!

+1

It's basically the mascot. I'm not from FL, I went there only once as a young child. And even I know this. I don't know how people don't know alligators aren't everywhere in Fl.

Hey morons, knowing that alligators exist in Florida and knowing the potential exists for them to snatch up your two year old at a manicured Disney beach are two completely separate things. Are you Disney lawyers or just southern slow?

No one is talking about getting snatched up on a beach. We're talking about the WATERS. In that case, the potential is real and nature should be respected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. A "no swimming" sign is not sufficient to cover the risks associated with alligator attacks. That child could have been killed simply walking near the edge of the water.

2. It's not reasonable to expect resort guests coming from Europe, Canada, or yes even Nebraska to know how prevelant alligators are, especially on Disney property where a beach has been set up.

3. Disney was grossly negligent and WILL pay up the a$$ including to this who just witnessed the attack. That's guaranteed.

I disagree. And, I would also say that anyone who doesn't know that Florida has alligators is an imbecile. It's practically the first thing you think of!

Here's the thing - even if you know "Florida has alligators" you may not be familiar with alligator behavior. If a sign says "no swimming", and you make the logic leap that you should not swim due to alligators, you might think your kid is safe WALKING IN LESS THAN A FOOT OF WATER, because that is not swimming. Maybe you think alligators are like sharks - and someone might not swim on account of a shark in the water, but they'd probably walk along the beach and not fear a shark attack. Signage was inadequate and inappropriate to the threat.

I'm really trying to understand this mindset. Alligators are a pretty popular animal. Even if you don't know everything about their behavior, I would argue that the basic stuff is known to ADULTS. I'm really trying to understand this idea that alligators are some weird and mysterious animal.

I don't think alligators are as popular as you think they are...