Those questions will not be left up to the discretion of the teacher. There will be very firm rules about what is acceptable. I remember, years ago, one of my students took an IQ test –I think it was the WISC, One of the questions was “what do you call a group that sings together?” His answer was “The BeeGees”. The psychologist could not give him credit for that answer. I told her she should count it—that it showed he understood. She said she could only accept choir or chorus. I’m not sure she would have even accepted “glee club”.

Anonymous wrote:

Kids are going to be asked to explain their reasoning. If their reasoning is sound, great! If not, it's a problem.

Yes. With a multiple choice test. Wake up.

?????

One of the ways in which the new assessments (both PARCC and Smarter Balanced) differ from predecessors such as the MSA or DC-CAS, is that they'll have a higher percentage of "constructed response" questions that aren't multiple choice, and are scored by hand.

I believe that the question to top poster was answering is, if a student is asked to show or explain their reasoning on a constructed response item, is there just one way to do so or would any solution that exhibited sound reasoning and came to the correct answer be allowed?

Kids are going to be asked to explain their reasoning. If their reasoning is sound, great! If not, it's a problem.

Yes. With a multiple choice test. Wake up.

Anonymous wrote:I think the earlier poster referencing Obamacare is trying to point out that this CC program is just too big to be implemented properly. I agree.

Why? For years and years states have each had their own standards. Now they will still have standards -- but the same ones. Other than having the same standards, there IS no "Common Core Program". So what could be too big to be implemented properly?

I am an elementary school teacher in MD. I really like the new Common Core standards. I find them to be much more useful and precise than the old MD state standards, because they explicitly require mastery of "Foundational Skills" in reading (phonics) and they require fluency with basic arithmetic facts by certain grade levels. The standards are also much better in what they require in writing.

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed- I'm a bit confused here. If CC teaches multiple strategies, why would testing require you to only use one approach? Is this a fact or just bring assumed? Because I don't see any reason why a student couldn't show a work in multiple ways as long as they came to the correct answer.

Because the kids are going to be tested on their "critical thinking" approach. The devil is in the details.

Kids are going to be asked to explain their reasoning. If their reasoning is sound, great! If not, it's a problem.

I think the earlier poster referencing Obamacare is trying to point out that this CC program is just too big to be implemented properly. I agree.

you said "the teacher"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


You keep referencing standards. What I am referring to is the actual college board tests and their rewrite to comply with CC. Only by seeing the questions on these tests can your questions be answered because the testing is directly correlated to implementation of the standards. Yet teachers are saying that they have no access to CC test questions. They are also reporting that there are hard equipment failures, as well as software issues.

Take Obamacare. There was a set of standards developed for the creation of the website. Yet the website crashed because the implementation of those standards were poor. If you cannot understand this, I am seriously concerned about teaching programs across the country. Do they not require business courses?

Well, I for one am having a hard time figuring out what on earth you're talking about.

If you are the teacher, you've just proved my point.

It always amazes me on these boards that people assume that there are only two posters. I happen to be a teacher--I don't think I am the one to whom you are referring. There is more than one teacher posting on this thread.

Note the word "if". And "the teacher" refers to the one who doesn't understand the differences between standards and implementation of standards. I certainly see a lot of level headed teachers on this thread. I could have been clearer. Sorry 'bout that.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


You keep referencing standards. What I am referring to is the actual college board tests and their rewrite to comply with CC. Only by seeing the questions on these tests can your questions be answered because the testing is directly correlated to implementation of the standards. Yet teachers are saying that they have no access to CC test questions. They are also reporting that there are hard equipment failures, as well as software issues.

Take Obamacare. There was a set of standards developed for the creation of the website. Yet the website crashed because the implementation of those standards were poor. If you cannot understand this, I am seriously concerned about teaching programs across the country. Do they not require business courses?

Well, I for one am having a hard time figuring out what on earth you're talking about.

If you are the teacher, you've just proved my point.

It always amazes me on these boards that people assume that there are only two posters. I happen to be a teacher--I don't think I am the one to whom you are referring. There is more than one teacher posting on this thread.

Anonymous wrote:

In Kindergarten, for example, students are now expected to perform a greater variety of tasks and use a greater variety of strategies for counting, adding and subtracting within 5, and demonstrating place value for numbers through 20. On the other hand, they are no longer expected to understand the concept of a half, recognize coins, tell time to the hour, or work with rulers or other measurement tools.

There is an assumption that the teachers will go through the lessons and the students will learn the first time. I have taught K children who could not count. Teaching place value will require a lot of growth and time. And, you still have to teach other subjects.

Who is making the assumption that the teachers will go through the lessons once and students will learn the first time? Common Core makes the recommendation that 50% of the year in Kindergarten math should be spent on activities to develop counting skills, and an understanding of the counting principle. In order to make room for this, they have removed other skills from the Kindergarten standards.

In Kindergarten, for example, students are now expected to perform a greater variety of tasks and use a greater variety of strategies for counting, adding and subtracting within 5, and demonstrating place value for numbers through 20. On the other hand, they are no longer expected to understand the concept of a half, recognize coins, tell time to the hour, or work with rulers or other measurement tools.

There is an assumption that the teachers will go through the lessons and the students will learn the first time. I have taught K children who could not count. Teaching place value will require a lot of growth and time. And, you still have to teach other subjects.

Anonymous wrote:

However, I can't really connect that to your husband in any way. It seems that he either did have early experiences exploring with math, whether on his own or with an adult who enjoyed playing math games with him, or a talented teacher, and he doesn't remember them because he was young when they happened, or he didn't have those experiences and figured out creative strategies on his own. Either way that's great, but I'm not sure I understand how it relates to the idea that children today shouldn't have opportunities to explore a variety of strategies.

If the teacher has to teach the kids multiple strategies and expect mastery on multiple strategies--when is there time? I taught school, time is a commodity that is needed to teach lots of different things. This is unrealistic.

The Common Core math standards for the early grades (and perhaps for the later grades, I have spent much more time digging into the K - 5 standards, so I'll speak to those), are based on the assumption that long term outcomes are better if students spend more time going into depth on a smaller number of topics.

In Kindergarten, for example, students are now expected to perform a greater variety of tasks and use a greater variety of strategies for counting, adding and subtracting within 5, and demonstrating place value for numbers through 20. On the other hand, they are no longer expected to understand the concept of a half, recognize coins, tell time to the hour, or work with rulers or other measurement tools.

In theory, at least, when these students get to the upper grades, their understanding of the underlying concepts of addition, subtraction, and place value will be solid, and students will be able to move quickly to applying them grade level topics.

So, students don't have more to learn, they're just learning different things, or the same thing in a different sequence.

Again, you cannot separate standards from implementation. They are so intricately linked, that if you try, you have immediate failure because there is no way to measure the results of the standards.

Obamacare crashed because the program did not meet those standards. You are correct. That is due to the IMPLEMENTATION of the standards - the devil is in the details. What you are missing (because you have had no decent business classes) is that the cost to date has been 1 BILLION dollars because of the poor IMPLEMENTATION of the standards.

Failure is not free.

At what price paradise?

Agreed- I'm a bit confused here. If CC teaches multiple strategies, why would testing require you to only use one approach? Is this a fact or just bring assumed? Because I don't see any reason why a student couldn't show a work in multiple ways as long as they came to the correct answer.

Because the kids are going to be tested on their "critical thinking" approach. The devil is in the details.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You keep referencing standards. What I am referring to is the actual college board tests and their rewrite to comply with CC. Only by seeing the questions on these tests can your questions be answered because the testing is directly correlated to implementation of the standards. Yet teachers are saying that they have no access to CC test questions. They are also reporting that there are hard equipment failures, as well as software issues.

Take Obamacare. There was a set of standards developed for the creation of the website. Yet the website crashed because the implementation of those standards were poor. If you cannot understand this, I am seriously concerned about teaching programs across the country. Do they not require business courses?

Well, I for one am having a hard time figuring out what on earth you're talking about.

If you are the teacher, you've just proved my point.