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Anonymous wrote:The indictment is online at NYtimes and it’s nuts. This mofo kept these secrets in a shower and on stage at Maralgo.

This photo is even worse than the shower and ballroom ones IMO.

Jesus; what a dump.

I agree

The people here are too evil and crooked to even care.

Even you guys aren’t stupid enough to think the cases are similar.

They aren't. Biden should never have removed classified documents, given he never had to power to declassify - ever. So finding them in his garage is worse. Removing the photo from this thread is an admission of that.

I'd really encourage you to read the full indictment. The Biden "case" and this one aren't remotely similar. In fact, none of the Trump charges involve the initial removal of the classified info. They only charged what he did after the subpoena.

They never are. Again, because you seem to be too dumb to understand. Biden should NEVER have had classified documents ANYWHERE in his home. EVER.

But Trump should have? The documents were taken to his home after he was no longer president. That was okay?

He had the power to declassify. Biden never had that power as VP or as a Senator.

“This is secret information. Look, look at this.” —Donald J Trump, post-presidency

Please, can I hear that tape as well?

So arrest Biden too, right? Trump had the power to declassify and no, he didn’t need permission.

Could you translate that into rational language?

Biden, as then senator and then VP, had classified documents that he could not have declassified at any point in time. So he should be arrested right?

Please read up on what Trump did. He is not being charged for what Biden did. You sound incredibly uninformed.

What’s uninformed is you not understanding that Biden broke the law. You all seem to be misled into thinking that it’s not about breaking the law, it’s about how the law was broken. That’s why this case will end up being decided by the SC. What this indictment is all about is tying up Trump from rallies and campaigning. I was actually thinking of voting for someone else but now, I am 110% behind Trump. I don’t’ like the man but I HATE miscarriages of justice more. And it has been three years of not prosecuting hardened criminals leading to the deaths of others. Three years of blatantly not protecting our borders. Three years of seeing FBI agents placed in churches and other institutions to spy on Americans. Three years of watching people lose jobs, being dragged off to jail for defending children, coverups of attacks on women in public schools, being lied to by some of our most prominent medical institutions so they could be bought off by big Pharma.

Imagine how big the crimes in government have to be in order for government to want to put Trump away this badly, how big those crimes must be to want to turn on a huge part of the population of the US. How big the payoffs are going to be if we just dispose of our Constitution. I wonder how far this government will go to ‘put down’ an ‘insurrection’. Remember, the very definition of tyranny is when the guns of the government turn inward.

You are delusional. Show us where Biden refused to comply with investigators regarding documents, where he deliberately hid them, got others to help hide them, repeatedly told lies about all of it - you can't. And as for all your other supposed government lies and coverups and malfeasance, it happened on Trump's watch - yet somehow you still think Trump is the solution?

JFC, Biden should not have even have the opportunity to comply. A US Senator or VP does NOT have the powers of declassification. Trump did under the Presidential Records Act. And btw, neither did Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. Those were blatant violations of law. Not ‘hiding them’ , as you say, isn’t even a consideration. It was illegal for them to possess those documents


Under Trump’s watch? No (I’d call you Ma’am or Sir, but who knows how you identify and Lord knows, I would not want to be ‘impolite’).

Someone who doesn’t know that the Secretary of State, as an original classification authority, does in fact have declassification powers, or that declassification powers have nothing to with the PRA, should probably sit down and shut up about this.

She can only declassify her own stuff. It’s not near as broad as the President’s:

“ The Department of State, to include Hillary Clinton as the Secretary of State, does have Originator Classification Authority. This means she carried the authority to control the level at which material generated by the Department of State is classified, within the boundaries of applicable doctrine. There is some material that must be classified as a matter of course, to include correspondence with Foreign Governments, controlled schedules, and information garnered from classified material.

However, there was information contained within her emails that had been classified by government agencies outside of the Department of State, beyond the scope of her OCA. Among her emails on the 'private server' were satellite imagery of foreign countries, classified by the intelligence agencies. These images are controlled as Top Secret, Special Compartmentalized Information, Talent Keyhole, but were located on her personal email server and mislabeled as unclassified. These items should never have been present on an unclassified, or general use, information system. The Government uses specially developed cyber enclaves to protect this data, segregating it from everything else. In order for these pictures to exist on an unclassified system, someone illegally copied them from a system cleared Top Secret information, crossed the physical air gap to a general use computer, and then emailed them to her. The situation is further complicated by the use of the personal server; if these communications had been made via a Government Information system, there would be a firm management and accounting of the emails. This would have satisfied the requirements of the Federal Records Act. By operating on via a personal server, she bypassed the established mechanisms for information assurance and accounting.”

You’re not talking about the things that were classified at a later date, after they were emailed to her, I hope.

Clinton did not have any classified “documents” in her emails. The retroactive “classification” was a determination that her staff sent her a few emails that referenced classified matters, and they should not have done so (even though some of the “secrets” were public knowledge that had already been reported in the media). No classified documents or sources were in the emails, but there were unclassified emails among staff who all held clearances that mentioned something that was known from classified sources.

That type of inadvertent insider communication has never been prosecuted, and very rarely would even result in a reprimand for the sender.

Hillary Clinton: “I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email.”

James Comey: “Let me tell you what we found.”

-110 emails
-52 email chains
-8 of those chains were top secret
-36 were secret
-8 contained confidential information

Hillary Clinton: “it wasn’t the best choice, I made a mistake.”

James Comey: “This is going to be an unusual statement, in at least a couple of ways, although there IS EVIDENCE, our judgement is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it even relevant if any of this stuff WAS declassified (which it clearly was not, but for argument's sake)? They're still government records. He still had plans for attacking Iran (or whatever) sitting in a box at Mar-a-Lago after being subpoenaed for them and was showing them to people, and had them moved around so they wouldn't be located.

No, but if it were true then a foreign adversary would be able to FOIA our attack plans whenever the president reviewed those plans if the president hinted at declassification or they alleged the president thought to declassify those documents.

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

A tweet from the vaunted Politifact:

Of course it didn't work. This is DCUM after all.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1667725962778382336

He was the president in 2017. He is not the president now.

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

A tweet from the vaunted Politifact:

Of course it didn't work. This is DCUM after all.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1667725962778382336

Well I am guessing Trump's lawyers will make exactly this argument, and we'll see if the court buys it!

No one is arguing the president can’t declassify when he’s president.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

A tweet from the vaunted Politifact:

Of course it didn't work. This is DCUM after all.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1667725962778382336

Well I am guessing Trump's lawyers will make exactly this argument, and we'll see if the court buys it!

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Anonymous wrote:The indictment is online at NYtimes and it’s nuts. This mofo kept these secrets in a shower and on stage at Maralgo.

This photo is even worse than the shower and ballroom ones IMO.

Jesus; what a dump.

I agree

The people here are too evil and crooked to even care.

Even you guys aren’t stupid enough to think the cases are similar.

They aren't. Biden should never have removed classified documents, given he never had to power to declassify - ever. So finding them in his garage is worse. Removing the photo from this thread is an admission of that.

I'd really encourage you to read the full indictment. The Biden "case" and this one aren't remotely similar. In fact, none of the Trump charges involve the initial removal of the classified info. They only charged what he did after the subpoena.

They never are. Again, because you seem to be too dumb to understand. Biden should NEVER have had classified documents ANYWHERE in his home. EVER.

But Trump should have? The documents were taken to his home after he was no longer president. That was okay?

He had the power to declassify. Biden never had that power as VP or as a Senator.

“This is secret information. Look, look at this.” —Donald J Trump, post-presidency

Please, can I hear that tape as well?

So arrest Biden too, right? Trump had the power to declassify and no, he didn’t need permission.

Could you translate that into rational language?

Biden, as then senator and then VP, had classified documents that he could not have declassified at any point in time. So he should be arrested right?

Please read up on what Trump did. He is not being charged for what Biden did. You sound incredibly uninformed.

What’s uninformed is you not understanding that Biden broke the law. You all seem to be misled into thinking that it’s not about breaking the law, it’s about how the law was broken. That’s why this case will end up being decided by the SC. What this indictment is all about is tying up Trump from rallies and campaigning. I was actually thinking of voting for someone else but now, I am 110% behind Trump. I don’t’ like the man but I HATE miscarriages of justice more. And it has been three years of not prosecuting hardened criminals leading to the deaths of others. Three years of blatantly not protecting our borders. Three years of seeing FBI agents placed in churches and other institutions to spy on Americans. Three years of watching people lose jobs, being dragged off to jail for defending children, coverups of attacks on women in public schools, being lied to by some of our most prominent medical institutions so they could be bought off by big Pharma.

Imagine how big the crimes in government have to be in order for government to want to put Trump away this badly, how big those crimes must be to want to turn on a huge part of the population of the US. How big the payoffs are going to be if we just dispose of our Constitution. I wonder how far this government will go to ‘put down’ an ‘insurrection’. Remember, the very definition of tyranny is when the guns of the government turn inward.

You are delusional. Show us where Biden refused to comply with investigators regarding documents, where he deliberately hid them, got others to help hide them, repeatedly told lies about all of it - you can't. And as for all your other supposed government lies and coverups and malfeasance, it happened on Trump's watch - yet somehow you still think Trump is the solution?

JFC, Biden should not have even have the opportunity to comply. A US Senator or VP does NOT have the powers of declassification. Trump did under the Presidential Records Act. And btw, neither did Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. Those were blatant violations of law. Not ‘hiding them’ , as you say, isn’t even a consideration. It was illegal for them to possess those documents


Under Trump’s watch? No (I’d call you Ma’am or Sir, but who knows how you identify and Lord knows, I would not want to be ‘impolite’).

Someone who doesn’t know that the Secretary of State, as an original classification authority, does in fact have declassification powers, or that declassification powers have nothing to with the PRA, should probably sit down and shut up about this.

She can only declassify her own stuff. It’s not near as broad as the President’s:

“ The Department of State, to include Hillary Clinton as the Secretary of State, does have Originator Classification Authority. This means she carried the authority to control the level at which material generated by the Department of State is classified, within the boundaries of applicable doctrine. There is some material that must be classified as a matter of course, to include correspondence with Foreign Governments, controlled schedules, and information garnered from classified material.

However, there was information contained within her emails that had been classified by government agencies outside of the Department of State, beyond the scope of her OCA. Among her emails on the 'private server' were satellite imagery of foreign countries, classified by the intelligence agencies. These images are controlled as Top Secret, Special Compartmentalized Information, Talent Keyhole, but were located on her personal email server and mislabeled as unclassified. These items should never have been present on an unclassified, or general use, information system. The Government uses specially developed cyber enclaves to protect this data, segregating it from everything else. In order for these pictures to exist on an unclassified system, someone illegally copied them from a system cleared Top Secret information, crossed the physical air gap to a general use computer, and then emailed them to her. The situation is further complicated by the use of the personal server; if these communications had been made via a Government Information system, there would be a firm management and accounting of the emails. This would have satisfied the requirements of the Federal Records Act. By operating on via a personal server, she bypassed the established mechanisms for information assurance and accounting.”

You’re not talking about the things that were classified at a later date, after they were emailed to her, I hope.

Clinton did not have any classified “documents” in her emails. The retroactive “classification” was a determination that her staff sent her a few emails that referenced classified matters, and they should not have done so (even though some of the “secrets” were public knowledge that had already been reported in the media). No classified documents or sources were in the emails, but there were unclassified emails among staff who all held clearances that mentioned something that was known from classified sources.

That type of inadvertent insider communication has never been prosecuted, and very rarely would even result in a reprimand for the sender.

Hillary Clinton: “I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email.”

James Comey: “Let me tell you what we found.”

-110 emails
-52 email chains
-8 of those chains were top secret
-36 were secret
-8 contained confidential information

Hillary Clinton: “it wasn’t the best choice, I made a mistake.”

James Comey: “This is going to be an unusual statement, in at least a couple of ways, although there IS EVIDENCE, our judgement is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.”

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

A tweet from the vaunted Politifact:

Of course it didn't work. This is DCUM after all.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1667725962778382336

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

A tweet from the vaunted Politifact:

Of course it didn't work. This is DCUM after all.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1667725962778382336

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

A tweet from the vaunted Politifact:

Of course it didn't work. This is DCUM after all.

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1667725962778382336

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Anonymous wrote:The indictment is online at NYtimes and it’s nuts. This mofo kept these secrets in a shower and on stage at Maralgo.

This photo is even worse than the shower and ballroom ones IMO.

Jesus; what a dump.

I agree

The people here are too evil and crooked to even care.

Even you guys aren’t stupid enough to think the cases are similar.

They aren't. Biden should never have removed classified documents, given he never had to power to declassify - ever. So finding them in his garage is worse. Removing the photo from this thread is an admission of that.

I'd really encourage you to read the full indictment. The Biden "case" and this one aren't remotely similar. In fact, none of the Trump charges involve the initial removal of the classified info. They only charged what he did after the subpoena.

They never are. Again, because you seem to be too dumb to understand. Biden should NEVER have had classified documents ANYWHERE in his home. EVER.

But Trump should have? The documents were taken to his home after he was no longer president. That was okay?

He had the power to declassify. Biden never had that power as VP or as a Senator.

“This is secret information. Look, look at this.” —Donald J Trump, post-presidency

Please, can I hear that tape as well?

So arrest Biden too, right? Trump had the power to declassify and no, he didn’t need permission.

Could you translate that into rational language?

Biden, as then senator and then VP, had classified documents that he could not have declassified at any point in time. So he should be arrested right?

Please read up on what Trump did. He is not being charged for what Biden did. You sound incredibly uninformed.

What’s uninformed is you not understanding that Biden broke the law. You all seem to be misled into thinking that it’s not about breaking the law, it’s about how the law was broken. That’s why this case will end up being decided by the SC. What this indictment is all about is tying up Trump from rallies and campaigning. I was actually thinking of voting for someone else but now, I am 110% behind Trump. I don’t’ like the man but I HATE miscarriages of justice more. And it has been three years of not prosecuting hardened criminals leading to the deaths of others. Three years of blatantly not protecting our borders. Three years of seeing FBI agents placed in churches and other institutions to spy on Americans. Three years of watching people lose jobs, being dragged off to jail for defending children, coverups of attacks on women in public schools, being lied to by some of our most prominent medical institutions so they could be bought off by big Pharma.

Imagine how big the crimes in government have to be in order for government to want to put Trump away this badly, how big those crimes must be to want to turn on a huge part of the population of the US. How big the payoffs are going to be if we just dispose of our Constitution. I wonder how far this government will go to ‘put down’ an ‘insurrection’. Remember, the very definition of tyranny is when the guns of the government turn inward.

You are delusional. Show us where Biden refused to comply with investigators regarding documents, where he deliberately hid them, got others to help hide them, repeatedly told lies about all of it - you can't. And as for all your other supposed government lies and coverups and malfeasance, it happened on Trump's watch - yet somehow you still think Trump is the solution?

JFC, Biden should not have even have the opportunity to comply. A US Senator or VP does NOT have the powers of declassification. Trump did under the Presidential Records Act. And btw, neither did Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. Those were blatant violations of law. Not ‘hiding them’ , as you say, isn’t even a consideration. It was illegal for them to possess those documents


Under Trump’s watch? No (I’d call you Ma’am or Sir, but who knows how you identify and Lord knows, I would not want to be ‘impolite’).

Someone who doesn’t know that the Secretary of State, as an original classification authority, does in fact have declassification powers, or that declassification powers have nothing to with the PRA, should probably sit down and shut up about this.

She can only declassify her own stuff. It’s not near as broad as the President’s:

“ The Department of State, to include Hillary Clinton as the Secretary of State, does have Originator Classification Authority. This means she carried the authority to control the level at which material generated by the Department of State is classified, within the boundaries of applicable doctrine. There is some material that must be classified as a matter of course, to include correspondence with Foreign Governments, controlled schedules, and information garnered from classified material.

However, there was information contained within her emails that had been classified by government agencies outside of the Department of State, beyond the scope of her OCA. Among her emails on the 'private server' were satellite imagery of foreign countries, classified by the intelligence agencies. These images are controlled as Top Secret, Special Compartmentalized Information, Talent Keyhole, but were located on her personal email server and mislabeled as unclassified. These items should never have been present on an unclassified, or general use, information system. The Government uses specially developed cyber enclaves to protect this data, segregating it from everything else. In order for these pictures to exist on an unclassified system, someone illegally copied them from a system cleared Top Secret information, crossed the physical air gap to a general use computer, and then emailed them to her. The situation is further complicated by the use of the personal server; if these communications had been made via a Government Information system, there would be a firm management and accounting of the emails. This would have satisfied the requirements of the Federal Records Act. By operating on via a personal server, she bypassed the established mechanisms for information assurance and accounting.”

You’re not talking about the things that were classified at a later date, after they were emailed to her, I hope.

Clinton did not have any classified “documents” in her emails. The retroactive “classification” was a determination that her staff sent her a few emails that referenced classified matters, and they should not have done so (even though some of the “secrets” were public knowledge that had already been reported in the media). No classified documents or sources were in the emails, but there were unclassified emails among staff who all held clearances that mentioned something that was known from classified sources.

That type of inadvertent insider communication has never been prosecuted, and very rarely would even result in a reprimand for the sender.

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

A tweet from the vaunted Politifact:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

You people have some weird mythology in your heads about "the President can declassify." There's a process for declassifying documents, even for the President. The process is NOT the President waving his hands and gesturing broadly, saying "I declassify this stuff' or simply willing it to be declassified with his mind. And if the process isn't followed, there is no way of knowing what is or isn't declassified and it would be chaos. If the downgrading and declassification process isn't followed or there is no evidence it was followed then it remains classified.

You are incorrect.

Nope. There is a legal process for declassification. Please provide a link that shows a president can think it or will it, and it becomes so.

Per Constitutional lawyers:

A former president has the legal right to access any and all of the documents created during his presidency, classified or otherwise. The second before a President leaves office, by his very actions alone in taking documents he can be said to have declassified them.

“Therefore, the former president cannot be charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 for this reason and more,” said Levin, who served as chief of state to Attorney General Edwin Meese during the Reagan administration.”

In addition, Trumps’ lawyers had been in active negotiations regarding the documents, starting only a year after Trump left office. Like with Obama, this kind of back-and-forth is the norm and can go on for years. And the National Archives is already in possession of the vast majority of documents created during the Trump administration, and the ones at issue are a very relative few, so yes, he has cooperated. Under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the president is “the executive branch and he’s the commander in chief.” So Trump is not guilty of violating the Espionage Act, which was invoked in the affidavit to obtain a search warrant. In addition, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act; that has been cited by the FBI.

Now let’s talk Espionage Act and Clinton: Clinton had classified documents on an unsecured email server at her home in Chappaqua, New York/. Clinton wasn’t president, so she didn’t even have the protections presidents do.

“That violates the Espionage Act,” Levin said of failing to properly secure the documents, some highly classified, from foreign adversaries”.

Mark Levin is the source of this take? You may as well quote Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

Can you please tell me what disqualifies Levin in your mind? Not educated enough? Not enough experience?

He is misrepresenting the law, as he has done many times before.

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Anonymous wrote:I really think many of you are missing the obstruction. He had ample opportunity to work with NARA to return everything. He purposely mislead everyone. It never had to end this way had he returned everything.

Joking aside, they aren't missing the obstruction. They are choosing to willfully ignore it. The truth is that the security powers that be are willing to work with you if you honestly screw up and come to them with a mea culpa. Not only was Trump taking the documents not a screw up, but intentional, he then chose to lie, have others lie on his behalf, and hide them.

People like to point at the Reality Winner case. She's not in jail because she accidentally took a document out of the building that got mixed in her personal stuff. She's in jail because she removed it intentionally.

Reality Winner had no ability to declassify documents. Trump did and no, he doesn’t have to ask permission of anyone to do so.

But he didn’t declassify them. And they have him on tape admitting he didn’t.

LOL. No, they don’t. They claim they do. CNN has the exclusive dontchaknow

The transcript is in the indictment. Word for word. Are you actually claiming smith made this up?

Until they play the actual tape in court, yes. 52 intel analysts tell me not to take anything at face value

Who do thin me you’re kidding? When they play it in court you’ll dismiss it as faked.

I guarantee they won’t play it because they would be required to show full context

Sure, they quoted in the indictment but they won’t play it at trial. Makes total sense.

The recordings were handed over by Mark Meadow's staff. People around Trump gave sworn affidavits testifying to the contents of those recordings. They may not need to play the recording for it to be considered credible evidence. But it may be played to impeach Trump when he takes the stand and tries to lie or bs in federal court.

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Anonymous wrote:The indictment is online at NYtimes and it’s nuts. This mofo kept these secrets in a shower and on stage at Maralgo.

This photo is even worse than the shower and ballroom ones IMO.

Jesus; what a dump.

I agree

The people here are too evil and crooked to even care.

Even you guys aren’t stupid enough to think the cases are similar.

They aren't. Biden should never have removed classified documents, given he never had to power to declassify - ever. So finding them in his garage is worse. Removing the photo from this thread is an admission of that.

I'd really encourage you to read the full indictment. The Biden "case" and this one aren't remotely similar. In fact, none of the Trump charges involve the initial removal of the classified info. They only charged what he did after the subpoena.

They never are. Again, because you seem to be too dumb to understand. Biden should NEVER have had classified documents ANYWHERE in his home. EVER.

But Trump should have? The documents were taken to his home after he was no longer president. That was okay?

He had the power to declassify. Biden never had that power as VP or as a Senator.

“This is secret information. Look, look at this.” —Donald J Trump, post-presidency

Please, can I hear that tape as well?

So arrest Biden too, right? Trump had the power to declassify and no, he didn’t need permission.

Could you translate that into rational language?

Biden, as then senator and then VP, had classified documents that he could not have declassified at any point in time. So he should be arrested right?

Please read up on what Trump did. He is not being charged for what Biden did. You sound incredibly uninformed.

What’s uninformed is you not understanding that Biden broke the law. You all seem to be misled into thinking that it’s not about breaking the law, it’s about how the law was broken. That’s why this case will end up being decided by the SC. What this indictment is all about is tying up Trump from rallies and campaigning. I was actually thinking of voting for someone else but now, I am 110% behind Trump. I don’t’ like the man but I HATE miscarriages of justice more. And it has been three years of not prosecuting hardened criminals leading to the deaths of others. Three years of blatantly not protecting our borders. Three years of seeing FBI agents placed in churches and other institutions to spy on Americans. Three years of watching people lose jobs, being dragged off to jail for defending children, coverups of attacks on women in public schools, being lied to by some of our most prominent medical institutions so they could be bought off by big Pharma.

Imagine how big the crimes in government have to be in order for government to want to put Trump away this badly, how big those crimes must be to want to turn on a huge part of the population of the US. How big the payoffs are going to be if we just dispose of our Constitution. I wonder how far this government will go to ‘put down’ an ‘insurrection’. Remember, the very definition of tyranny is when the guns of the government turn inward.

You are delusional. Show us where Biden refused to comply with investigators regarding documents, where he deliberately hid them, got others to help hide them, repeatedly told lies about all of it - you can't. And as for all your other supposed government lies and coverups and malfeasance, it happened on Trump's watch - yet somehow you still think Trump is the solution?

JFC, Biden should not have even have the opportunity to comply. A US Senator or VP does NOT have the powers of declassification. Trump did under the Presidential Records Act. And btw, neither did Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. Those were blatant violations of law. Not ‘hiding them’ , as you say, isn’t even a consideration. It was illegal for them to possess those documents


Under Trump’s watch? No (I’d call you Ma’am or Sir, but who knows how you identify and Lord knows, I would not want to be ‘impolite’).

Someone who doesn’t know that the Secretary of State, as an original classification authority, does in fact have declassification powers, or that declassification powers have nothing to with the PRA, should probably sit down and shut up about this.

She can only declassify her own stuff. It’s not near as broad as the President’s:

“ The Department of State, to include Hillary Clinton as the Secretary of State, does have Originator Classification Authority. This means she carried the authority to control the level at which material generated by the Department of State is classified, within the boundaries of applicable doctrine. There is some material that must be classified as a matter of course, to include correspondence with Foreign Governments, controlled schedules, and information garnered from classified material.

However, there was information contained within her emails that had been classified by government agencies outside of the Department of State, beyond the scope of her OCA. Among her emails on the 'private server' were satellite imagery of foreign countries, classified by the intelligence agencies. These images are controlled as Top Secret, Special Compartmentalized Information, Talent Keyhole, but were located on her personal email server and mislabeled as unclassified. These items should never have been present on an unclassified, or general use, information system. The Government uses specially developed cyber enclaves to protect this data, segregating it from everything else. In order for these pictures to exist on an unclassified system, someone illegally copied them from a system cleared Top Secret information, crossed the physical air gap to a general use computer, and then emailed them to her. The situation is further complicated by the use of the personal server; if these communications had been made via a Government Information system, there would be a firm management and accounting of the emails. This would have satisfied the requirements of the Federal Records Act. By operating on via a personal server, she bypassed the established mechanisms for information assurance and accounting.”

You’re not talking about the things that were classified at a later date, after they were emailed to her, I hope.