Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would folks have an issue with loan repayment for police academy? Do they have an issue with US military receiving tuition benefits? It shouldn't be an issue to extend that concept to service professions such as nursing, teachers, etc.


Wouldn't it make more sense to let the free market do its thing, and allow pay rates to rise for those professions if there are not enough people with the needed qualifications to do the work?

Teacher here. The local school board decides how much I get paid. They are elected and want to get reelected (paid position) and don't want to raise taxes. So it's not market forces that are "doing its thing". Most of them don't have children in the schools either. Public schools are not part of the "free market".

Local school board does not set tuition for colleges. No one is talking about K-12.

Huh? This is in response to the PP saying we don't need loan forgiveness for people with degrees in any service professions including teachers, nurses, because they believe the free market will raise wages in those professions.

Sorry, I was having a senior moment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would folks have an issue with loan repayment for police academy? Do they have an issue with US military receiving tuition benefits? It shouldn't be an issue to extend that concept to service professions such as nursing, teachers, etc.


Wouldn't it make more sense to let the free market do its thing, and allow pay rates to rise for those professions if there are not enough people with the needed qualifications to do the work?

Teacher here. The local school board decides how much I get paid. They are elected and want to get reelected (paid position) and don't want to raise taxes. So it's not market forces that are "doing its thing". Most of them don't have children in the schools either. Public schools are not part of the "free market".

Local school board does not set tuition for colleges. No one is talking about K-12.

Huh? This is in response to the PP saying we don't need loan forgiveness for people with degrees in any service professions including teachers, nurses, because they believe the free market will raise wages in those professions.

Shut up, OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Would folks have an issue with loan repayment for police academy? Do they have an issue with US military receiving tuition benefits? It shouldn't be an issue to extend that concept to service professions such as nursing, teachers, etc.


Wouldn't it make more sense to let the free market do its thing, and allow pay rates to rise for those professions if there are not enough people with the needed qualifications to do the work?

Teacher here. The local school board decides how much I get paid. They are elected and want to get reelected (paid position) and don't want to raise taxes. So it's not market forces that are "doing its thing". Most of them don't have children in the schools either. Public schools are not part of the "free market".

Local school board does not set tuition for colleges. No one is talking about K-12.

Would folks have an issue with loan repayment for police academy? Do they have an issue with US military receiving tuition benefits? It shouldn't be an issue to extend that concept to service professions such as nursing, teachers, etc.


Wouldn't it make more sense to let the free market do its thing, and allow pay rates to rise for those professions if there are not enough people with the needed qualifications to do the work?

Teacher here. The local school board decides how much I get paid. They are elected and want to get reelected (paid position) and don't want to raise taxes. So it's not market forces that are "doing its thing". Most of them don't have children in the schools either. Public schools are not part of the "free market".

Oh PS, double time OT is prohibited, at least where I work (also probably dangerous for patients if you go to that many hours)

Anonymous wrote:During the onset of the coronavirus outbreak, newspaper articles wrote that traveling nurses could earn at the rate of over $400,000 per year with massive amounts of overtime based on a base pay rate of $90 per hour ($180,000 for 2,000 hours = 50 weeks x 40 hours per week plus $135 per hour overtime rate. X 40 X 50 = an additional $270,000 for a total of $450,000).

Someone who actually worked 40 hours of overtime per week might trigger double time at some point instead of just time and a half.

Transportation, hotel/motel room and meals were also paid for the travelling nurses.

But the work can be very stressful and exhausting.

Yes but not everyone can do that and it's usually short stints for like 6-8 weeks where you earn a lot, don't have the full time benefits, can get cut at any time, and don't know where your next stint will be. Same goes for agency nurse type positions. Few do those jobs long term on a permanent basis because nursing is already exhausting and those types are worse, starting in a new space all the time. Once the hospital feels staffing boosted back up to cover the lapse, they cut you.

I made about $55k as a new nurse in a major city nonprofit hospital that is unionized when I started about ten years ago. There are higher paying nurse jobs - i e. Management and administration but those are a handful. My one city hospital employs several thousand nurses and most are bedside. It's the biggest hospital budget and highest personnel budget, which also makes widespread pay increase more expensive to implement. A few will become management or clinical specialists, etc. Some nurses work to use their degree as a stepping stone to nurse practitioners, but NPs are not nurses, they function operationally as MDs essentially, are not a part of the hospital nursing department nor budget.

Working in nursing nowadays, very few people stay to be long term career nurses at a basic level... Med surg floors are constantly hiring who they can out of nursing school (instead of increased pay, when options are slim, hospital opens up hiring to associate degrees instead of BSNs) to replace large numbers who leave, then those people they hire and train will leave within 1-2 years to try ICU or a different specialty floor, work till they burn out, try to become NPs, then leave nursing dept altogether if they can or just get stuck, burn out, leave profession altogether. There's a lingering pool of older nurses who were career "med surg" nurses who are retiring. Everyone is burnt out, especially as assaults on nurses increase and are becoming too common

Will the nursing shortage lead to better pay? For at least 30 to 40 years, it's only led to short term tricks such as temporary bonuses, hiring bonuses, hiring agency nurses who tick off the permanent staff by doing the same job for super high pay, but permanent staff don't want to leave and lose benefits for that same pay). Oh and pizza parties as compensation, a running joke in the nursing field.

During the onset of the coronavirus outbreak, newspaper articles wrote that traveling nurses could earn at the rate of over $400,000 per year with massive amounts of overtime based on a base pay rate of $90 per hour ($180,000 for 2,000 hours = 50 weeks x 40 hours per week plus $135 per hour overtime rate. X 40 X 50 = an additional $270,000 for a total of $450,000).

Someone who actually worked 40 hours of overtime per week might trigger double time at some point instead of just time and a half.

Transportation, hotel/motel room and meals were also paid for the travelling nurses.

But the work can be very stressful and exhausting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would folks have an issue with loan repayment for police academy? Do they have an issue with US military receiving tuition benefits? It shouldn't be an issue to extend that concept to service professions such as nursing, teachers, etc.

Wouldn't it make more sense to let the free market do its thing, and allow pay rates to rise for those professions if there are not enough people with the needed qualifications to do the work?

Totally agree for services that aren't essential, but for essential services, the lapse in waiting for that to happen comes at the expense of the American people. I didn't agree with loan forgiveness for all, but I could absolutely support improved loan forgiveness for certain professions.

This is ridiculous logic. If it was essential and in short supply, it would be well paying.

...and the nursing shortage continues...

Then nursing is well-paying...

Nursing is NOT in any way a low paying career.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would folks have an issue with loan repayment for police academy? Do they have an issue with US military receiving tuition benefits? It shouldn't be an issue to extend that concept to service professions such as nursing, teachers, etc.

Wouldn't it make more sense to let the free market do its thing, and allow pay rates to rise for those professions if there are not enough people with the needed qualifications to do the work?

Totally agree for services that aren't essential, but for essential services, the lapse in waiting for that to happen comes at the expense of the American people. I didn't agree with loan forgiveness for all, but I could absolutely support improved loan forgiveness for certain professions.

This is ridiculous logic. If it was essential and in short supply, it would be well paying.

...and the nursing shortage continues...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would folks have an issue with loan repayment for police academy? Do they have an issue with US military receiving tuition benefits? It shouldn't be an issue to extend that concept to service professions such as nursing, teachers, etc.

Wouldn't it make more sense to let the free market do its thing, and allow pay rates to rise for those professions if there are not enough people with the needed qualifications to do the work?

Totally agree for services that aren't essential, but for essential services, the lapse in waiting for that to happen comes at the expense of the American people. I didn't agree with loan forgiveness for all, but I could absolutely support improved loan forgiveness for certain professions.

This is ridiculous logic. If it was essential and in short supply, it would be well paying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. I’d support income based repayment/forgiveness over 20-30 years with a 10 year repayment/forgiveness for certain lower paying public service jobs.

Note that for high need, low paying public service jobs such as nursing, federal loans already get placed on a 10 year plan if it's a 2nd degree/career change, so those programs still don't benefit/incentivize those professions. My federal loans were $300 a month on a 10 year plan at something like 6% or higher interest.

High need usually translate to high pay relative to other jobs of similar skill level requirements.

If we're talking about nursing here, not high pay (which is why it's such a needed profession and has very high turnover, low retention, nursing shortage is a significant issue for healthcare throughout our country, and on and on). More also needs to be done to reform healthcare to make nursing more desirable especially to those who have the degree but get burnt out so quickly, but that's a separate issue. Would folks have an issue with loan repayment for police academy? Do they have an issue with US military receiving tuition benefits? It shouldn't be an issue to extend that concept to service professions such as nursing, teachers, etc.

Don't be dense. There is a drastic difference between public and private sector workers. Private sector workers negotiate for their pay freely. Public sector workers cannot.

Anonymous wrote:

Would folks have an issue with loan repayment for police academy? Do they have an issue with US military receiving tuition benefits? It shouldn't be an issue to extend that concept to service professions such as nursing, teachers, etc.

Wouldn't it make more sense to let the free market do its thing, and allow pay rates to rise for those professions if there are not enough people with the needed qualifications to do the work?

Totally agree for services that aren't essential, but for essential services, the lapse in waiting for that to happen comes at the expense of the American people. I didn't agree with loan forgiveness for all, but I could absolutely support improved loan forgiveness for certain professions.

Would folks have an issue with loan repayment for police academy? Do they have an issue with US military receiving tuition benefits? It shouldn't be an issue to extend that concept to service professions such as nursing, teachers, etc.

Wouldn't it make more sense to let the free market do its thing, and allow pay rates to rise for those professions if there are not enough people with the needed qualifications to do the work?