Anonymous wrote:If forced birthers were really ProLife they would be first to rally for and pass FREE healthcare for mothers/children. They would advocate for and pass PAID maternity leave. They would want affordable childare so mothers can, you know WORK like they want us to and not be a drain on teh system. They don't give a crap about life. Its just control over women. how women don't see this and demand better baffles me.

So I am supposed to carry a baby and pay for dozens of medical bills, lost wages for PTO appointments etc, and then lose my job because I gave birth adn now have no income to support this kid. Ok. Lets increase mandatory child support payments to match inflation and force fathers to take care of their own children.

This.

If they really wanted to encourage births, everyone in the US would be given free health care, and women would be given a year of paid maternity / paternity leave, depending on who is the primary caregiver. Heck, I have middle aged relatives who don't get colonoscopies because they can't afford the copays.

These "pro lifers" are not really pro-life, just pro-control of women.

Anonymous wrote:If forced birthers were really ProLife they would be first to rally for and pass FREE healthcare for mothers/children. They would advocate for and pass PAID maternity leave. They would want affordable childare so mothers can, you know WORK like they want us to and not be a drain on teh system. They don't give a crap about life. Its just control over women. how women don't see this and demand better baffles me.

So I am supposed to carry a baby and pay for dozens of medical bills, lost wages for PTO appointments etc, and then lose my job because I gave birth adn now have no income to support this kid. Ok. Lets increase mandatory child support payments to match inflation and force fathers to take care of their own children.

I'm very anti abortion and pro-Roe (rarer than the Sumatran tiger these days) and I generally agree with your points. When we as a society start giving a darn about the needs of mothers then I suppose we can talk about eliminating elective abortions but we are far from that every happening. Most anti-abortion people I've known (and I know a lot, mostly other women) do a good job earning their "forced birth" badges. Let the baby be born and to heck with the mom.

I don't agree with your part about "control over women." That's an easy rationalization but I think it really oversimplifies an issue that is complex for a lot of people.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Also, for the pro-life folks, see the “cost of having an infant threads.” People have to budget for basic things like formula and clothes. You have rich folks buying clothes on Thredup for the baby because of how expensive childcare is.

But the thing is, women forced to bear children they don’t want aren’t necessarily going to treat them well, and even if they do, the woman and her existing children are going to suffer. It’s just an unnecessary nightmare all around.

pro choice = pro child abuse?

It’s a running theme that is sickening. Not all pro choice people think child abuse is ever an option.

You are being dense.

What happens is thus: people who are forced to have children they don't want resent them. It's human nature. The parents are angry, there's not enough money typically, there may have been a forced marriage.

They try to love these unwanted children they were forced to have, buy the gun the forced bithers put to their head wrecks the parent child relationship.

Nobody on this forum who has unhappy birth or family circumstances has committed suicide. If given a choice, they have continue life. Saying a baby should be killed rather than be born into possibly less then optimal circumstances is a ludicrous and false. If that were true, the unhappy people here would have ended their own lives. No one has a perfect life or childhood or is born into perfection. We don’t kill unhappy, poor people because their lives aren’t fabulous.

Stupid reasoning.

Lots and lots of people have committed suicide.

And more to come, thanks to lowlife like you.

Anonymous wrote:If forced birthers were really ProLife they would be first to rally for and pass FREE healthcare for mothers/children. They would advocate for and pass PAID maternity leave. They would want affordable childare so mothers can, you know WORK like they want us to and not be a drain on teh system. They don't give a crap about life. Its just control over women. how women don't see this and demand better baffles me.

So I am supposed to carry a baby and pay for dozens of medical bills, lost wages for PTO appointments etc, and then lose my job because I gave birth adn now have no income to support this kid. Ok. Lets increase mandatory child support payments to match inflation and force fathers to take care of their own children.

Pro-birthers generally have very little concern about what happens to unwanted babies after they are already born. If we, as society took better care of these babies instead of usually condemning them to the broken system where abuse and neglect and worse fester, then fewer women would seek abortions, especially later term abortions. Drug addiction pandemic only exacerbated the problem, and we need to focus more on trying to access vulnerable women in such circumstances to make sure they have access to contraception, Plan B, and safe early weeks abortion. In general access to some form of counselling in safe environments and access to Plan B and very early abortion helps reduce the number of those seeking later term abortions, which I am not a supporter of unless due to dire medical reasons.

How are husbands ok with this. When i was pregnant with my second, despite me saying to choose the baby if he had to choose, my DH said there was no way in hell he was choosing to be a father of 3 without me. He would choose me and the baby would perish if he had to make that choice.

We even talked used the morning after pill a few months back when we had a contrception failure because we are DONE with kids. Don't more DH feel this way. More babies, less options impact their lives as well.

If forced birthers were really ProLife they would be first to rally for and pass FREE healthcare for mothers/children. They would advocate for and pass PAID maternity leave. They would want affordable childare so mothers can, you know WORK like they want us to and not be a drain on teh system. They don't give a crap about life. Its just control over women. how women don't see this and demand better baffles me.

So I am supposed to carry a baby and pay for dozens of medical bills, lost wages for PTO appointments etc, and then lose my job because I gave birth adn now have no income to support this kid. Ok. Lets increase mandatory child support payments to match inflation and force fathers to take care of their own children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, for the pro-life folks, see the “cost of having an infant threads.” People have to budget for basic things like formula and clothes. You have rich folks buying clothes on Thredup for the baby because of how expensive childcare is.

But the thing is, women forced to bear children they don’t want aren’t necessarily going to treat them well, and even if they do, the woman and her existing children are going to suffer. It’s just an unnecessary nightmare all around.

pro choice = pro child abuse?

It’s a running theme that is sickening. Not all pro choice people think child abuse is ever an option.

You are being dense.

What happens is thus: people who are forced to have children they don't want resent them. It's human nature. The parents are angry, there's not enough money typically, there may have been a forced marriage.

They try to love these unwanted children they were forced to have, buy the gun the forced bithers put to their head wrecks the parent child relationship.

Nobody on this forum who has unhappy birth or family circumstances has committed suicide. If given a choice, they have continue life. Saying a baby should be killed rather than be born into possibly less then optimal circumstances is a ludicrous and false. If that were true, the unhappy people here would have ended their own lives. No one has a perfect life or childhood or is born into perfection. We don’t kill unhappy, poor people because their lives aren’t fabulous.

I have a child born into a happy marriage when I was 32 who has a a panoply of special needs. If I had given birth to this child when I was pregnant and unmarried at 19 I would have absolutely killed myself by now. The only way I have been able to take proper care of him and myself is with the education, experience, family and financial support that I have now but didn’t have then.

You supposing you’d kill yourself is just words you type. You don’t know what you’d actually do in another situation and your “I’d kill myself!” drama isn’t evidence that any babies should be aborted.

No one has a perfect or always happy or easy life. No one has perfect parents or circumstances. Using the lack of perfection in life as an excuse to abort babies is garbage. No one posting here is taking their own life because of hardship or struggles, but are fine with pre-judging the entire life of a baby and saying “oh no his/her life might be hard, better to kill him/her.”

Motherhood should be voluntary.

As should be pregnancy.

The same people who are railing about abortion support zero actual solutions toward lowering the rate of unplanned pregnancy in this country.

Because unplanned/unwanted pregnancies keep people poor and powerless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, for the pro-life folks, see the “cost of having an infant threads.” People have to budget for basic things like formula and clothes. You have rich folks buying clothes on Thredup for the baby because of how expensive childcare is.

But the thing is, women forced to bear children they don’t want aren’t necessarily going to treat them well, and even if they do, the woman and her existing children are going to suffer. It’s just an unnecessary nightmare all around.

pro choice = pro child abuse?

It’s a running theme that is sickening. Not all pro choice people think child abuse is ever an option.

You are being dense.

What happens is thus: people who are forced to have children they don't want resent them. It's human nature. The parents are angry, there's not enough money typically, there may have been a forced marriage.

They try to love these unwanted children they were forced to have, buy the gun the forced bithers put to their head wrecks the parent child relationship.

Nobody on this forum who has unhappy birth or family circumstances has committed suicide. If given a choice, they have continue life. Saying a baby should be killed rather than be born into possibly less then optimal circumstances is a ludicrous and false. If that were true, the unhappy people here would have ended their own lives. No one has a perfect life or childhood or is born into perfection. We don’t kill unhappy, poor people because their lives aren’t fabulous.

I have a child born into a happy marriage when I was 32 who has a a panoply of special needs. If I had given birth to this child when I was pregnant and unmarried at 19 I would have absolutely killed myself by now. The only way I have been able to take proper care of him and myself is with the education, experience, family and financial support that I have now but didn’t have then.

You supposing you’d kill yourself is just words you type. You don’t know what you’d actually do in another situation and your “I’d kill myself!” drama isn’t evidence that any babies should be aborted.

No one has a perfect or always happy or easy life. No one has perfect parents or circumstances. Using the lack of perfection in life as an excuse to abort babies is garbage. No one posting here is taking their own life because of hardship or struggles, but are fine with pre-judging the entire life of a baby and saying “oh no his/her life might be hard, better to kill him/her.”

Motherhood should be voluntary.

As should be pregnancy.

The same people who are railing about abortion support zero actual solutions toward lowering the rate of unplanned pregnancy in this country.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, for the pro-life folks, see the “cost of having an infant threads.” People have to budget for basic things like formula and clothes. You have rich folks buying clothes on Thredup for the baby because of how expensive childcare is.

But the thing is, women forced to bear children they don’t want aren’t necessarily going to treat them well, and even if they do, the woman and her existing children are going to suffer. It’s just an unnecessary nightmare all around.

pro choice = pro child abuse?

It’s a running theme that is sickening. Not all pro choice people think child abuse is ever an option.

You are being dense.

What happens is thus: people who are forced to have children they don't want resent them. It's human nature. The parents are angry, there's not enough money typically, there may have been a forced marriage.

They try to love these unwanted children they were forced to have, buy the gun the forced bithers put to their head wrecks the parent child relationship.

Nobody on this forum who has unhappy birth or family circumstances has committed suicide. If given a choice, they have continue life. Saying a baby should be killed rather than be born into possibly less then optimal circumstances is a ludicrous and false. If that were true, the unhappy people here would have ended their own lives. No one has a perfect life or childhood or is born into perfection. We don’t kill unhappy, poor people because their lives aren’t fabulous.

I have a child born into a happy marriage when I was 32 who has a a panoply of special needs. If I had given birth to this child when I was pregnant and unmarried at 19 I would have absolutely killed myself by now. The only way I have been able to take proper care of him and myself is with the education, experience, family and financial support that I have now but didn’t have then.

You supposing you’d kill yourself is just words you type. You don’t know what you’d actually do in another situation and your “I’d kill myself!” drama isn’t evidence that any babies should be aborted.

No one has a perfect or always happy or easy life. No one has perfect parents or circumstances. Using the lack of perfection in life as an excuse to abort babies is garbage. No one posting here is taking their own life because of hardship or struggles, but are fine with pre-judging the entire life of a baby and saying “oh no his/her life might be hard, better to kill him/her.”

Motherhood should be voluntary.

As should be pregnancy.

In the age of 23andme, I have heard enough heartbreaking stories of people contacting their birth family and being promptly rejected to know that adoption is not the systemic solution.

Most anti-choice folks, besides not having a uterus, don’t believe that any real poverty or major issues exist in the US, so their is very little reason with them. Their motto is kind of “It’s not a problem until it affects me.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, for the pro-life folks, see the “cost of having an infant threads.” People have to budget for basic things like formula and clothes. You have rich folks buying clothes on Thredup for the baby because of how expensive childcare is.

But the thing is, women forced to bear children they don’t want aren’t necessarily going to treat them well, and even if they do, the woman and her existing children are going to suffer. It’s just an unnecessary nightmare all around.

pro choice = pro child abuse?

It’s a running theme that is sickening. Not all pro choice people think child abuse is ever an option.

You are being dense.

What happens is thus: people who are forced to have children they don't want resent them. It's human nature. The parents are angry, there's not enough money typically, there may have been a forced marriage.

They try to love these unwanted children they were forced to have, buy the gun the forced bithers put to their head wrecks the parent child relationship.

Nobody on this forum who has unhappy birth or family circumstances has committed suicide. If given a choice, they have continue life. Saying a baby should be killed rather than be born into possibly less then optimal circumstances is a ludicrous and false. If that were true, the unhappy people here would have ended their own lives. No one has a perfect life or childhood or is born into perfection. We don’t kill unhappy, poor people because their lives aren’t fabulous.

This forum is largely privileged UMC folks, including myself. But lots of folks commit suicide.

The poor and miserable in this country are absolutely killing themselves. Look at the overdose rate. Look at the rates of obesity, diabetes, and metabolic disorders. And in my circles at least, this includes several people who were adoptees. It appears that even a loving home can’t save folks from the fundamental trauma of not being wanted.

I am adopted. I don’t know my bio mom. I was 4 days old when adopted, and have no thoughts about how I was unwanted. My parents wanted me.

How do children adopted as days or weeks old newborns have trauma of being unwanted? How do they recall such things? Do their adoptive parents not want them?

There are many, many adoptees like me who have felt trauma by not knowing their birth families. There is a lot of loss, anger and shame.

I finally met my birth family. I was cheated out of a lot.

If you have a brain in your head, you know that your birth was a terrible trauma to your mother. My birth mother grew up with religious zealots, therefore she couldn't kept me.

If I hadn't been born, she would have been much better off. And I wouldn't know any difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, for the pro-life folks, see the “cost of having an infant threads.” People have to budget for basic things like formula and clothes. You have rich folks buying clothes on Thredup for the baby because of how expensive childcare is.

But the thing is, women forced to bear children they don’t want aren’t necessarily going to treat them well, and even if they do, the woman and her existing children are going to suffer. It’s just an unnecessary nightmare all around.

pro choice = pro child abuse?

It’s a running theme that is sickening. Not all pro choice people think child abuse is ever an option.

You are being dense.

What happens is thus: people who are forced to have children they don't want resent them. It's human nature. The parents are angry, there's not enough money typically, there may have been a forced marriage.

They try to love these unwanted children they were forced to have, buy the gun the forced bithers put to their head wrecks the parent child relationship.

Nobody on this forum who has unhappy birth or family circumstances has committed suicide. If given a choice, they have continue life. Saying a baby should be killed rather than be born into possibly less then optimal circumstances is a ludicrous and false. If that were true, the unhappy people here would have ended their own lives. No one has a perfect life or childhood or is born into perfection. We don’t kill unhappy, poor people because their lives aren’t fabulous.

This forum is largely privileged UMC folks, including myself. But lots of folks commit suicide.

The poor and miserable in this country are absolutely killing themselves. Look at the overdose rate. Look at the rates of obesity, diabetes, and metabolic disorders. And in my circles at least, this includes several people who were adoptees. It appears that even a loving home can’t save folks from the fundamental trauma of not being wanted.

I am adopted. I don’t know my bio mom. I was 4 days old when adopted, and have no thoughts about how I was unwanted. My parents wanted me.

How do children adopted as days or weeks old newborns have trauma of being unwanted? How do they recall such things? Do their adoptive parents not want them?

Not my job to be a free surrogate for someone else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, for the pro-life folks, see the “cost of having an infant threads.” People have to budget for basic things like formula and clothes. You have rich folks buying clothes on Thredup for the baby because of how expensive childcare is.

But the thing is, women forced to bear children they don’t want aren’t necessarily going to treat them well, and even if they do, the woman and her existing children are going to suffer. It’s just an unnecessary nightmare all around.

pro choice = pro child abuse?

It’s a running theme that is sickening. Not all pro choice people think child abuse is ever an option.

You are being dense.

What happens is thus: people who are forced to have children they don't want resent them. It's human nature. The parents are angry, there's not enough money typically, there may have been a forced marriage.

They try to love these unwanted children they were forced to have, buy the gun the forced bithers put to their head wrecks the parent child relationship.

Nobody on this forum who has unhappy birth or family circumstances has committed suicide. If given a choice, they have continue life. Saying a baby should be killed rather than be born into possibly less then optimal circumstances is a ludicrous and false. If that were true, the unhappy people here would have ended their own lives. No one has a perfect life or childhood or is born into perfection. We don’t kill unhappy, poor people because their lives aren’t fabulous.

This forum is largely privileged UMC folks, including myself. But lots of folks commit suicide.

The poor and miserable in this country are absolutely killing themselves. Look at the overdose rate. Look at the rates of obesity, diabetes, and metabolic disorders. And in my circles at least, this includes several people who were adoptees. It appears that even a loving home can’t save folks from the fundamental trauma of not being wanted.

The vast majority of the world is poor. Are you aware wealth isn’t the answer to happiness to all people? Some people value other things in life above wealth.

So we don’t think poor people should live? Is that it?

I support assisted suicide. If they don’t want to live, they can choose not to. But you’re an authoritarian with no concept of nuance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, for the pro-life folks, see the “cost of having an infant threads.” People have to budget for basic things like formula and clothes. You have rich folks buying clothes on Thredup for the baby because of how expensive childcare is.

But the thing is, women forced to bear children they don’t want aren’t necessarily going to treat them well, and even if they do, the woman and her existing children are going to suffer. It’s just an unnecessary nightmare all around.

pro choice = pro child abuse?

It’s a running theme that is sickening. Not all pro choice people think child abuse is ever an option.

You are being dense.

What happens is thus: people who are forced to have children they don't want resent them. It's human nature. The parents are angry, there's not enough money typically, there may have been a forced marriage.

They try to love these unwanted children they were forced to have, buy the gun the forced bithers put to their head wrecks the parent child relationship.

Nobody on this forum who has unhappy birth or family circumstances has committed suicide. If given a choice, they have continue life. Saying a baby should be killed rather than be born into possibly less then optimal circumstances is a ludicrous and false. If that were true, the unhappy people here would have ended their own lives. No one has a perfect life or childhood or is born into perfection. We don’t kill unhappy, poor people because their lives aren’t fabulous.

I have a child born into a happy marriage when I was 32 who has a a panoply of special needs. If I had given birth to this child when I was pregnant and unmarried at 19 I would have absolutely killed myself by now. The only way I have been able to take proper care of him and myself is with the education, experience, family and financial support that I have now but didn’t have then.

You supposing you’d kill yourself is just words you type. You don’t know what you’d actually do in another situation and your “I’d kill myself!” drama isn’t evidence that any babies should be aborted.

No one has a perfect or always happy or easy life. No one has perfect parents or circumstances. Using the lack of perfection in life as an excuse to abort babies is garbage. No one posting here is taking their own life because of hardship or struggles, but are fine with pre-judging the entire life of a baby and saying “oh no his/her life might be hard, better to kill him/her.”

Motherhood should be voluntary.