Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They won't answer that question. It's just easier to complain about some few bad apples. I really think these people should volunteer in the HS and be the ones responsible for badly behaving students.

What do a few bad apples do? They spoil the whole barrel.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/one-bad-apple-spoil-the-barrel-metaphor-phrase

This is why I think the incident last year played such a vital role in swinging public opinion. As someone who is very involved in local politics, I can tell you that abolishing SROs was a fringe position before that time. Yes, some elected officials were supportive, but they were largely not willing to take a public stand.

Then you get a video of police abusing a kid barely out of preK, and public opinion moved quickly once it became clear that MPD was disinclined to punish the officers at all. There were zero professional consequences. So, you had people who would have been in the mushy middle move into the abolish camp because it laid bare how unwilling the police (even in Montgomery County) are to hold their own accountable for their actions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They won't answer that question. It's just easier to complain about some few bad apples. I really think these people should volunteer in the HS and be the ones responsible for badly behaving students.

What do a few bad apples do? They spoil the whole barrel.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/one-bad-apple-spoil-the-barrel-metaphor-phrase

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They won't answer that question. It's just easier to complain about some few bad apples. I really think these people should volunteer in the HS and be the ones responsible for badly behaving students.

What do a few bad apples do? They spoil the whole barrel.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/one-bad-apple-spoil-the-barrel-metaphor-phrase

Anonymous wrote:

And to add to this, it doesn't matter who exhibits this type of behavior, people of color (as the above poster put it), or the skinny white girl in the back of the classroom. They should be quickly escorted out and the same consequence applied. And in my view that should be a talking to by staff followed by an automatic suspension... at least this is how things were handled in schools in the past during saner times.

I mean, sure, and we can give them all unicorns to ride to school.

If we didn't have decades of experience and reams of actual data to show that SROs are particularly vicious to kids of color, then we would be having a different conversation. If abusive cops were subject to accountability, oversight, or consequences, we'd be having a different conversation right now.

But that's not the world we live in, and that's not the reality of policing in 2021.

Anonymous wrote:
They won't answer that question. It's just easier to complain about some few bad apples. I really think these people should volunteer in the HS and be the ones responsible for badly behaving students.

And to add to this, it doesn't matter who exhibits this type of behavior, people of color (as the above poster put it), or the skinny white girl in the back of the classroom. They should be quickly escorted out and the same consequence applied. And in my view that should be a talking to by staff followed by an automatic suspension... at least this is how things were handled in schools in the past during saner times.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez. 48 assaults that resulted in cops being called from September this year vs. 51 for the WHOLE school year in 2019-2020. Hmmm, besides covid, what else changed this year?? https://www.fox5dc.com/news/seneca-valley-high-schools-principal-calls-on-dads[

Lol besides returning to full time in person education after a year and a half of virtual/hybrid? You really don't get what that experience was like for a lot of kids.

Absolutely I do. Even more reason NOT to remove SROs this year. I know that SROs were removed this year after many years of supporting high schools and despite requests from principals not to do so. Top it off with the fact that they didn't hire the mental health workers that they promised and assumed would be effective in taking their place. Frankly I'm shocked at the incompetence.

+1 If they know that kids are suffering mental health issues from the stress of the past year, it makes more sense to have more security, not less. Sure, hire more mental health professionals, but we also need more security. We can chew gum and walk at the same time, no? For me, my kids' safety is paramount.

You can add security guards for that. You can call the police when someone is getting stabbed or someone brings a weapon to school. But having police there proactively just means they will arrest more kids (data show that SRO programs increase arrests most in offenses like "disorderly conduct"). Arresting a bunch of kids for nonviolent offenses will not help their mental health.

Sure, but they aren't doing that, either. What would the security guard do with a student who is committing "disorderly conduct"? Do they just send them back to class? Send them home, only for them to come back and repeat? How is that helpful to anyone? What do security guards do when there is a student with a knife? Call the cops, right? Why do the Principals want SROs in the schools? Why did the Blair Prinicpal want the cops there?
Do you deal with students day in and day out? Do you know more than the Principals?

In any case, they could also train the SROs to deal with students who have mental health issues.

Do you hear yourself? Let's just arrest the kids? Yes, it's terrible that MCPS can't handle unruly students. That doesn't mean you take them away in handcuffs.

I hear myself. Do you hear yourself? I don't think you do.. because you can't even answer my questions. You have repeatedly ignored the question. You also clearly have no answer about what to do with students who commit "disorderly conduct". What do you do with a 6' 16 yr old who is repeatedly belligerent in class? Should that student be put back in the class? Give him a hug and all will be well. Answer that.

As others have already said, there are alternatives to either arresting a student, or "give him a hug and all will be well". I am sure you would not want your child arrested because he happens to be 6' tall and was disruptive during class. The only reason you think this is a reasonable alternative is because you know it won't be your child who gets arrested. MCPS does not know how to educate students of color, they sure AF do not know how to deal with behavior issues among students of color so of course they want the police there, it is a way of passing the buck.

Enlighten us then... how would you deal with a student yelling, swearing and making threats in class?

They won't answer that question. It's just easier to complain about some few bad apples. I really think these people should volunteer in the HS and be the ones responsible for badly behaving students.

Exactly, it's all crickets. Because there is no real way for anyone in the classroom to de-escalate, and someone has to come in and escort the student out. Whether it's an SRO, or someone else, it has to be someone who can come quickly and take charge, because when this type of behavior occurs, it's frankly terrifying and should not impact the whole classroom including the teacher, and frankly there is nothing the teacher or other students can do at that point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez. 48 assaults that resulted in cops being called from September this year vs. 51 for the WHOLE school year in 2019-2020. Hmmm, besides covid, what else changed this year?? https://www.fox5dc.com/news/seneca-valley-high-schools-principal-calls-on-dads[

Lol besides returning to full time in person education after a year and a half of virtual/hybrid? You really don't get what that experience was like for a lot of kids.

Absolutely I do. Even more reason NOT to remove SROs this year. I know that SROs were removed this year after many years of supporting high schools and despite requests from principals not to do so. Top it off with the fact that they didn't hire the mental health workers that they promised and assumed would be effective in taking their place. Frankly I'm shocked at the incompetence.

+1 If they know that kids are suffering mental health issues from the stress of the past year, it makes more sense to have more security, not less. Sure, hire more mental health professionals, but we also need more security. We can chew gum and walk at the same time, no? For me, my kids' safety is paramount.

You can add security guards for that. You can call the police when someone is getting stabbed or someone brings a weapon to school. But having police there proactively just means they will arrest more kids (data show that SRO programs increase arrests most in offenses like "disorderly conduct"). Arresting a bunch of kids for nonviolent offenses will not help their mental health.

Sure, but they aren't doing that, either. What would the security guard do with a student who is committing "disorderly conduct"? Do they just send them back to class? Send them home, only for them to come back and repeat? How is that helpful to anyone? What do security guards do when there is a student with a knife? Call the cops, right? Why do the Principals want SROs in the schools? Why did the Blair Prinicpal want the cops there?
Do you deal with students day in and day out? Do you know more than the Principals?

In any case, they could also train the SROs to deal with students who have mental health issues.

Do you hear yourself? Let's just arrest the kids? Yes, it's terrible that MCPS can't handle unruly students. That doesn't mean you take them away in handcuffs.

I hear myself. Do you hear yourself? I don't think you do.. because you can't even answer my questions. You have repeatedly ignored the question. You also clearly have no answer about what to do with students who commit "disorderly conduct". What do you do with a 6' 16 yr old who is repeatedly belligerent in class? Should that student be put back in the class? Give him a hug and all will be well. Answer that.

As others have already said, there are alternatives to either arresting a student, or "give him a hug and all will be well". I am sure you would not want your child arrested because he happens to be 6' tall and was disruptive during class. The only reason you think this is a reasonable alternative is because you know it won't be your child who gets arrested. MCPS does not know how to educate students of color, they sure AF do not know how to deal with behavior issues among students of color so of course they want the police there, it is a way of passing the buck.

Enlighten us then... how would you deal with a student yelling, swearing and making threats in class?

They won't answer that question. It's just easier to complain about some few bad apples. I really think these people should volunteer in the HS and be the ones responsible for badly behaving students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez. 48 assaults that resulted in cops being called from September this year vs. 51 for the WHOLE school year in 2019-2020. Hmmm, besides covid, what else changed this year?? https://www.fox5dc.com/news/seneca-valley-high-schools-principal-calls-on-dads[

Lol besides returning to full time in person education after a year and a half of virtual/hybrid? You really don't get what that experience was like for a lot of kids.

Absolutely I do. Even more reason NOT to remove SROs this year. I know that SROs were removed this year after many years of supporting high schools and despite requests from principals not to do so. Top it off with the fact that they didn't hire the mental health workers that they promised and assumed would be effective in taking their place. Frankly I'm shocked at the incompetence.

+1 If they know that kids are suffering mental health issues from the stress of the past year, it makes more sense to have more security, not less. Sure, hire more mental health professionals, but we also need more security. We can chew gum and walk at the same time, no? For me, my kids' safety is paramount.

You can add security guards for that. You can call the police when someone is getting stabbed or someone brings a weapon to school. But having police there proactively just means they will arrest more kids (data show that SRO programs increase arrests most in offenses like "disorderly conduct"). Arresting a bunch of kids for nonviolent offenses will not help their mental health.

Sure, but they aren't doing that, either. What would the security guard do with a student who is committing "disorderly conduct"? Do they just send them back to class? Send them home, only for them to come back and repeat? How is that helpful to anyone? What do security guards do when there is a student with a knife? Call the cops, right? Why do the Principals want SROs in the schools? Why did the Blair Prinicpal want the cops there?
Do you deal with students day in and day out? Do you know more than the Principals?

In any case, they could also train the SROs to deal with students who have mental health issues.

Do you hear yourself? Let's just arrest the kids? Yes, it's terrible that MCPS can't handle unruly students. That doesn't mean you take them away in handcuffs.

I hear myself. Do you hear yourself? I don't think you do.. because you can't even answer my questions. You have repeatedly ignored the question. You also clearly have no answer about what to do with students who commit "disorderly conduct". What do you do with a 6' 16 yr old who is repeatedly belligerent in class? Should that student be put back in the class? Give him a hug and all will be well. Answer that.

As others have already said, there are alternatives to either arresting a student, or "give him a hug and all will be well". I am sure you would not want your child arrested because he happens to be 6' tall and was disruptive during class. The only reason you think this is a reasonable alternative is because you know it won't be your child who gets arrested. MCPS does not know how to educate students of color, they sure AF do not know how to deal with behavior issues among students of color so of course they want the police there, it is a way of passing the buck.

Enlighten us then... how would you deal with a student yelling, swearing and making threats in class?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 Some people want to make decisions based on data, except when they don't.

The people making the decision aren't even in the schools. They sit in their cushy offices and make decisions that impact those who are actually doing the work everyday.

Not one anti-SRO person has answered the question of why Principals, those who interact with the students day in and day out, want SROs. Why did the Blair Principal want the cops there?

Why don't some of you anti-SRO people volunteer as "security guards" in the HSs and see for yourself what Principals and staff have to deal with everyday.

The push to remove the SROs came from high school students - i.e., the people who are impacted, in the schools, without offices (cushy or otherwise).

Some people are spending a lot of energy attacking people for attacking the police. I wish that they would spend half of that energy attacking the problems that lead people to attack the police, instead of minimizing those problems as "a few bad apples." What do bad apples do, proverbially? They spoil the whole barrel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez. 48 assaults that resulted in cops being called from September this year vs. 51 for the WHOLE school year in 2019-2020. Hmmm, besides covid, what else changed this year?? https://www.fox5dc.com/news/seneca-valley-high-schools-principal-calls-on-dads[

Lol besides returning to full time in person education after a year and a half of virtual/hybrid? You really don't get what that experience was like for a lot of kids.

Absolutely I do. Even more reason NOT to remove SROs this year. I know that SROs were removed this year after many years of supporting high schools and despite requests from principals not to do so. Top it off with the fact that they didn't hire the mental health workers that they promised and assumed would be effective in taking their place. Frankly I'm shocked at the incompetence.

+1 If they know that kids are suffering mental health issues from the stress of the past year, it makes more sense to have more security, not less. Sure, hire more mental health professionals, but we also need more security. We can chew gum and walk at the same time, no? For me, my kids' safety is paramount.

You can add security guards for that. You can call the police when someone is getting stabbed or someone brings a weapon to school. But having police there proactively just means they will arrest more kids (data show that SRO programs increase arrests most in offenses like "disorderly conduct"). Arresting a bunch of kids for nonviolent offenses will not help their mental health.

Sure, but they aren't doing that, either. What would the security guard do with a student who is committing "disorderly conduct"? Do they just send them back to class? Send them home, only for them to come back and repeat? How is that helpful to anyone? What do security guards do when there is a student with a knife? Call the cops, right? Why do the Principals want SROs in the schools? Why did the Blair Prinicpal want the cops there?
Do you deal with students day in and day out? Do you know more than the Principals?

In any case, they could also train the SROs to deal with students who have mental health issues.

Do you hear yourself? Let's just arrest the kids? Yes, it's terrible that MCPS can't handle unruly students. That doesn't mean you take them away in handcuffs.

I hear myself. Do you hear yourself? I don't think you do.. because you can't even answer my questions. You have repeatedly ignored the question. You also clearly have no answer about what to do with students who commit "disorderly conduct". What do you do with a 6' 16 yr old who is repeatedly belligerent in class? Should that student be put back in the class? Give him a hug and all will be well. Answer that.

As others have already said, there are alternatives to either arresting a student, or "give him a hug and all will be well". I am sure you would not want your child arrested because he happens to be 6' tall and was disruptive during class. The only reason you think this is a reasonable alternative is because you know it won't be your child who gets arrested. MCPS does not know how to educate students of color, they sure AF do not know how to deal with behavior issues among students of color so of course they want the police there, it is a way of passing the buck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez. 48 assaults that resulted in cops being called from September this year vs. 51 for the WHOLE school year in 2019-2020. Hmmm, besides covid, what else changed this year?? https://www.fox5dc.com/news/seneca-valley-high-schools-principal-calls-on-dads[

Lol besides returning to full time in person education after a year and a half of virtual/hybrid? You really don't get what that experience was like for a lot of kids.

Absolutely I do. Even more reason NOT to remove SROs this year. I know that SROs were removed this year after many years of supporting high schools and despite requests from principals not to do so. Top it off with the fact that they didn't hire the mental health workers that they promised and assumed would be effective in taking their place. Frankly I'm shocked at the incompetence.

+1 If they know that kids are suffering mental health issues from the stress of the past year, it makes more sense to have more security, not less. Sure, hire more mental health professionals, but we also need more security. We can chew gum and walk at the same time, no? For me, my kids' safety is paramount.

You can add security guards for that. You can call the police when someone is getting stabbed or someone brings a weapon to school. But having police there proactively just means they will arrest more kids (data show that SRO programs increase arrests most in offenses like "disorderly conduct"). Arresting a bunch of kids for nonviolent offenses will not help their mental health.

Sure, but they aren't doing that, either. What would the security guard do with a student who is committing "disorderly conduct"? Do they just send them back to class? Send them home, only for them to come back and repeat? How is that helpful to anyone? What do security guards do when there is a student with a knife? Call the cops, right? Why do the Principals want SROs in the schools? Why did the Blair Prinicpal want the cops there?
Do you deal with students day in and day out? Do you know more than the Principals?

In any case, they could also train the SROs to deal with students who have mental health issues.

Do you hear yourself? Let's just arrest the kids? Yes, it's terrible that MCPS can't handle unruly students. That doesn't mean you take them away in handcuffs.

I hear myself. Do you hear yourself? I don't think you do.. because you can't even answer my questions. You have repeatedly ignored the question. You also clearly have no answer about what to do with students who commit "disorderly conduct". What do you do with a 6' 16 yr old who is repeatedly belligerent in class? Should that student be put back in the class? Give him a hug and all will be well. Answer that.

Anonymous wrote:

You are literally taking one terrible incident, although inexcusable and using that as the reason to dismantle a program instead of doing a comprehensive analysis on what is going on at MCPS schools. We should've been looking at the data and not making massive decisions without a transition plan. Have we not learned not to paint a group with a broad brush? There are terrible racist teachers too..should we get rid of them?

Anonymous wrote:
+1 Some people want to make decisions based on data, except when they don't.

The people making the decision aren't even in the schools. They sit in their cushy offices and make decisions that impact those who are actually doing the work everyday.

Not one anti-SRO person has answered the question of why Principals, those who interact with the students day in and day out, want SROs. Why did the Blair Principal want the cops there?

Why don't some of you anti-SRO people volunteer as "security guards" in the HSs and see for yourself what Principals and staff have to deal with everyday.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of pushback on this thread to the idea that there might be more wrong with American policing than a few bad apples, which means we are talking past each other.

For those who think that police institutions are fine, and there are no systemic issues, I'd invite you to read this article or scroll through this Twitter thread. It paints a picture of a culture of corruption across the culture, and a culture that has gone terribly terribly wrong. Note that this is a real, investigative piece and they found hundreds of cases of systemic corruption. The "good cops" were pushed out of the departments, while only the bad cops remained to protect one another.

https://twitter.com/BrettMmurphy/status/1458082591144304651?s=20

I share this because that's how some of us have long seen the police, and if you see them in this light, it's really hard to accept giving them casual access to your children because you know that any wrong-doing will be covered up and there will be zero accountability.

Yes. There's some fixing to do with policing. My point is the county should have looked at the data in THIS county and assess it before making major decisions that could impact the safety of all students especially coming from a disastrous pandemic year when a large number of students were isolated at home. Do this before dismantling a long-standing program that was unanimously supported by ALL HS principals; a program that has NO evidence of significantly arresting students. In fact, the DATA shows just the opposite. Only 3% of arrests were initiated by SROs at MCPS.

How can you look at an article about comphrehensive top-to-bottom corruption and say there is "some fixing" to do? How about the police undertake real reforms, introduce accountability for abusive cops, and rebuild community trust, and then we can discuss letting them around our kids again.

I mean, despite the national mood, I honestly think the tipping point fo MCPS was that video of a police officer verbally abusing a 5 year-old in an MCPS school last year. If the police had held bad cops accountable right then, and worked to rebuild trust in the impacted communities, I don't think SROs would be gone today.