Anonymous wrote:Israel is a vile, racist state and every bit as bad as Nazi Germany or South Africa under apartheid. Anyone who supports or acts as an agent of Israel deserves to be treated as an enemy of humanity.

And to think there are many supporters in America. If they think this of Palestinians, they think this of all brown and black people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Palestinian terrorism is justified because, because, because. There is no peaceful way forward, terrorism is the only way to achieve anything? That's the argument? Anyone with a scintilla of civilized blood in their veins would reject that puerile, simplistic proposition. Of course, if you accept it, all bets are off - the Palestinians should keep inflicting terror. If you adhere to that idea, you've no basis for crying when the terrorists and their supporters are suppressed. So stop whining and accept that the current condition of the Gazans is self-inflicted even as you think their actions have some kind of utility in advancing their causes and redressing their grievances.

Never mind that the Arab states surrounding Israel mostly engage in political discourse and negotiations instead of violent aggression. Those countries have avoided any recent conflicts because they have stayed within their own borders, having learned from their past adventurism that attacking Israel achieves nothing but self-destruction, a diminution in their own borders, the loss of military capacity, and embarrassment on the world stage. Iran is still figuring that one out, as are the Houthis.

The Palestinians can try to re-fight the Israeli war for independence over and over again, obtaining the same results they did in 1948. You can cheer them on from the sidelines where it's safe, but encouraging them is to urge them to continue further aggravate their hopeless state of affairs.

Please suggest civilized ways currently available to the Palestinians to resist land grab and settlement expansion. I’ll wait.

Renounce terror to start with and go from there. Nothing will change as long as terror is the exclusive foreign policy pursued by the Palestinians. It matters not what alternatives they are offered, they consistently choose terror in the utterly absurd hope that such a path will result in the disappearance of Israel and its population and the return to the status quo ante of 1947, assuming they found the British Mandate a suitable form of governance and wouldn't complain just as much about that. The sheer imbecility of this course of action is astounding - no rational person could possibly conclude, after 75 years of failed efforts, that this is a viable path forward or that it forms the basis for a useful foreign policy and path to peaceful engagement with anyone.

The assertions here that terror is the only option available is equally idiotic - doing the same thing over and over and over, obtaining the same result over and over and over, and urging more of the same is irrational as well as ineffective. It's time for a change, and that change is not gong to be Israel packing up and dissolving itself, it has to be the Palestinians recognizing that trying to address their grievances through a corrupt government and terrorism is not only unproductive but affirmatively self-destructive. Trying a path without terrorism can only be an improvement, although that requires a rejection of sponsorship by Iran, which uses terror as an instrument of their own foreign policy. They do that through proxies like Hamas, to try to insulate themselves from direct retaliation but have no objections when their surrogates get hammered instead.

If the Palestinians reject terror, prospects for peace would increase exponentially. Continue to embrace terror, and the Palestinians will continue on a path towards obliteration, all while sympathizers decry the situation. The Palestinians can end the violence this moment by rejecting Hamas and all it stands for, and ensuring the release of the hostages. Or they can keep on keeping on. it's up to them - Hamas attacked on Oct. 7, not the IDF.

And when is Israel going to reject terror? What do you think the assault on Palestinians in the West Bank is, if not terror. There are over three-quarters of a million Israeli settlers illegally occupying the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and East Jerusalem. They stole Palestinian homes and land through terrorism, which is at least in part sponsored by the state of Israel. What do you think happened to the Palestinians who were attacked and evicted from their homes.

Are you genuinely blind to your own hypocrisy? Or do you actually think Palestinians have less value than Jews, so it's acceptable to erase them and to take what is theirs?

Israel is not going to reject their version of state sponsored terror and the Palestinians cannot defeat it militarily. They need to change the paradigm if they want to "win".

Oops, WHO is antisemitic and Hamas so they must be targeted by the IDF

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israeli-airstrikes-yemen-airport-gaza/

Israel is a vile, racist state and every bit as bad as Nazi Germany or South Africa under apartheid. Anyone who supports or acts as an agent of Israel deserves to be treated as an enemy of humanity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).

You should stop living in the past, Giselle.

The PP is hardly living in the past. Ben-Gurion speaks for today's Zionists as much as for those of 1948. Zionism is a racist philosophy of erasing Palestinians (the "Uentermenschen") in favor of the "master race." Zionists illegally displacing Palestinians in the WB, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights today continue to enact his racist, ethno-centrist policies. Smotrich, Ben-Gvir, Daniella Weiss, and others continue to echo his racist beliefs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Palestinian terrorism is justified because, because, because. There is no peaceful way forward, terrorism is the only way to achieve anything? That's the argument? Anyone with a scintilla of civilized blood in their veins would reject that puerile, simplistic proposition. Of course, if you accept it, all bets are off - the Palestinians should keep inflicting terror. If you adhere to that idea, you've no basis for crying when the terrorists and their supporters are suppressed. So stop whining and accept that the current condition of the Gazans is self-inflicted even as you think their actions have some kind of utility in advancing their causes and redressing their grievances.

Never mind that the Arab states surrounding Israel mostly engage in political discourse and negotiations instead of violent aggression. Those countries have avoided any recent conflicts because they have stayed within their own borders, having learned from their past adventurism that attacking Israel achieves nothing but self-destruction, a diminution in their own borders, the loss of military capacity, and embarrassment on the world stage. Iran is still figuring that one out, as are the Houthis.

The Palestinians can try to re-fight the Israeli war for independence over and over again, obtaining the same results they did in 1948. You can cheer them on from the sidelines where it's safe, but encouraging them is to urge them to continue further aggravate their hopeless state of affairs.

Please suggest civilized ways currently available to the Palestinians to resist land grab and settlement expansion. I’ll wait.

Renounce terror to start with and go from there. Nothing will change as long as terror is the exclusive foreign policy pursued by the Palestinians. It matters not what alternatives they are offered, they consistently choose terror in the utterly absurd hope that such a path will result in the disappearance of Israel and its population and the return to the status quo ante of 1947, assuming they found the British Mandate a suitable form of governance and wouldn't complain just as much about that. The sheer imbecility of this course of action is astounding - no rational person could possibly conclude, after 75 years of failed efforts, that this is a viable path forward or that it forms the basis for a useful foreign policy and path to peaceful engagement with anyone.

The assertions here that terror is the only option available is equally idiotic - doing the same thing over and over and over, obtaining the same result over and over and over, and urging more of the same is irrational as well as ineffective. It's time for a change, and that change is not gong to be Israel packing up and dissolving itself, it has to be the Palestinians recognizing that trying to address their grievances through a corrupt government and terrorism is not only unproductive but affirmatively self-destructive. Trying a path without terrorism can only be an improvement, although that requires a rejection of sponsorship by Iran, which uses terror as an instrument of their own foreign policy. They do that through proxies like Hamas, to try to insulate themselves from direct retaliation but have no objections when their surrogates get hammered instead.

If the Palestinians reject terror, prospects for peace would increase exponentially. Continue to embrace terror, and the Palestinians will continue on a path towards obliteration, all while sympathizers decry the situation. The Palestinians can end the violence this moment by rejecting Hamas and all it stands for, and ensuring the release of the hostages. Or they can keep on keeping on. it's up to them - Hamas attacked on Oct. 7, not the IDF.

And when is Israel going to reject terror? What do you think the assault on Palestinians in the West Bank is, if not terror. There are over three-quarters of a million Israeli settlers illegally occupying the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and East Jerusalem. They stole Palestinian homes and land through terrorism, which is at least in part sponsored by the state of Israel. What do you think happened to the Palestinians who were attacked and evicted from their homes.

Are you genuinely blind to your own hypocrisy? Or do you actually think Palestinians have less value than Jews, so it's acceptable to erase them and to take what is theirs?

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how the pro-Palestinian posters will go into the weeds over whatever, but never address the main point.

Hamas or Fatah? That's the choice presently.

Until Palestinians revolt against those two options, it's hopeless. Terror and corruption are what Palestinians are all about. And have been for a very been long time.

It's sad. I know there are a lot of smart and accomplished Palestinian individuals. But, good lord, why are they choosing Hamas and Fatah? Absolutely nothing is going to be gained with that leadership.

Palestinians must revolt against Hamas and Fatah. And until they do, things are going to be dismal. They have no allies - except a very weakened Iran. Palestinians really do seem to be morons, clinically-speaking.

There really needs to be a Palestinian revolution.

And then

lol but when Ukrainians blow things up in Russia occupied territory, the Congress applauds. I don’t understand this ridiculous insistence that Palestinians are not allowed to respond to land grab, random detention, shooting with immunity and settler violence at all. What should they do to please your peace-loving soul? Sing sad songs when Moshe from hilltop youth comes and burns up the house? Tell me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).

You should stop living in the past, Giselle.

Coming from a state that has been weaponizing the Holocaust from day one? lol okay

Anonymous wrote:“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).

You should stop living in the past, Giselle.

Hey guys, look!

I found a bunch of quotes from Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot where they didn’t explicitly address and confess to the atrocities they committed!

Ergo, not bad guys, I guess.

It's interesting how the pro-Palestinian posters will go into the weeds over whatever, but never address the main point.

Hamas or Fatah? That's the choice presently.

Until Palestinians revolt against those two options, it's hopeless. Terror and corruption are what Palestinians are all about. And have been for a very been long time.

It's sad. I know there are a lot of smart and accomplished Palestinian individuals. But, good lord, why are they choosing Hamas and Fatah? Absolutely nothing is going to be gained with that leadership.

Palestinians must revolt against Hamas and Fatah. And until they do, things are going to be dismal. They have no allies - except a very weakened Iran. Palestinians really do seem to be morons, clinically-speaking.

There really needs to be a Palestinian revolution.

And then

On the 6th of February 1948, during a Mapai Party Council, Ben-Gurion responded to a remark from a member of the audience that “we have no land there” [in the hills and mountains west of Jerusalem] by saying: “The war will give us the land. The concepts of “ours” and “not ours” are peace concepts, only, and in war they lose their whole meaning”
(Ben-Gurion, War Diary, Vol. 1, entry dated 6 February 1948. p.211)

Addressing the Mapai Council the following day, Ben-Gurion declared: “From your entry into Jerusalem, through Lifta, Romema… there are no Arabs. One hundred percent Jews. Since Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, it has not been so Jewish. In many Arab neighborhoods in the west one sees not a single Arab. I do not assume that this will change… What had happened in Jerusalem… is likely to happen in many parts of the country …in the six, eight or ten months of the campaign there will certainly be great changes in the composition of the population in the country.”
(Ben-Gurion, War Diary, Vol. 1, entry dated 7 February 1948. p. 210-211)

And two months later, Ben-Gurion speaking to the Zionist Actions Committee on 6 April, Ben-Gurion declared: “We will not be able to win the war if we do not, during the war, populate upper and lower, eastern and western Galilee, the Negev and Jerusalem area….I believe that war will also bring in its wake a great change in the distribution of the Arab population.”
[Ben-Gurion, Behilahem Yisrael, Tel Aviv, Mapai Press, 1952, pp. 86-87]

Ben-Gurion wrote in his diary on 12 July 1937: “the compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the projected Jewish State…. We have to stick to this conclusion the same way we grabbed the Balfour Declaration, more than that, the same way we grabbed at Zionism itself.”
(Ben-Gurion, Zichronot [Memoirs], Vol. 4, p. 299)

12 July 1937, Ben-Gurion entered in his diary: “The compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own feet during the days of the First and Second Temple”
– a Galilee free from Arab population.

Ben-Gurion went so far to write: “We must prepare ourselves to carry out” the transfer [emphasis in original]

27 July 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in a letter to his 16 year old son Amos: “We have never wanted to dispossess the Arabs [but] because Britain is giving them part of the country which had been promised to us, it is fair that the Arabs in our state be transferred to the Arab portion”

5 October 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in a letter to his 16 year old son Amos: “We must expel the Arabs and take their places…. And, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places- then we have force at our disposal.”

“It is very possible that the Arabs of the neighboring countries will come to their aid against us. But our strength will exceed theirs. Not only because we will be better organized and equipped, but because behind us there stands a still larger force, superior in quantity and quality …the whole younger generation of Jews from Europe and America.”
Ben-Gurion, Zichronot [Memoirs], Vol. 4, p.297-299, p. 330-331.
See also Teveth, Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs, p. 182-189

Ben-Gurion in an address to the central committee of the Histadrut on 30 December 1947:
“In the area allocated to the Jewish State there are not more than 520,000 Jews and about 350,000 non-Jews, mostly Arabs. Together with the Jews of Jerusalem, the total population of the Jewish State at the time of its establishment will be about a million, including almost 40 percent non-Jews. Such a [population] composition does not provide a stable basis for a Jewish State. This [demographic] fact must be viewed in all its clarity and acuteness. With such a [population] composition, there cannot even be absolute certainty that control will remain in the hands of the Jewish majority…. There can be no stable and strong Jewish State so long as it has a Jewish majority of only 60 percent.”

“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘ Drive them out! ‘ “
Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “
— Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan.

“The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan

October, 1936, during the Jewish Agency Executive meeting Ben-Gurion arguing in favor of transfer as a policy, he said “We are not a state and Britain will not do it for us…” although “there is nothing wrong in the idea.”

“If it was permissible to move an Arab from the Galilee to Judea, why it is impossible to move an Arab from Hebron to Transjordan, which is much closer? There are vast expanses of land there and we are over crowded….Even the High Commission agrees to a transfer to Transjordan if we equip the peasants with land and money. If the Peel Commission and the London Government accept, we’ll remove the land problem from the agenda.”

“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).