I think the story deserves questioning, before these boys are crucified erroneously, like the Duke boys.

1) If she was raped atop shards of broken glass, wouldn't she be torn up, if not need stitching up? What about the rapists? They would surely have gotten cut as well.

2) The reporter who wrote the story gave this as a reason for why she was not able to contact any of the accused to get their side of the story (from the WaPo):

Erdely had been unable to locate the supposed attackers in her story in order to get their side of the tale. “They were kind of hard to get in touch with because [the fraternity’s] contact page was pretty outdated,” the Rolling Stone reporter told Slate. “I wound up getting in touch with their local president, who sent me an e-mail, and then I talked with their sort of, their national guy, who’s kind of their national crisis manager. They were both helpful in their own way, I guess.”

That's not really good investigative reporting, especially in the days of the internet.

3) The reporter seems very focused on 'the culture of rape at UVA' rather than the actual story itself. This from the WaPo:

When The Post followed up with Erdely directly on several occasions, they received an email from her in which she admonished the paper for focusing on the particulars of her story. Instead, she suggested, the overarching “culture” of this university which supposedly permitted such behavior – the existence of which is far more difficult to disprove than a criminal act – should be the media’s focus moving forward.

“I could address many of [the questions] individually .. . but by dwelling on this, you’re getting sidetracked,” she wrote in an e-mail response to The Post’s inquiry. “As I’ve already told you, the gang-rape scene that leads the story is the alarming account that Jackie — a person whom I found to be credible — told to me, told her friends, and importantly, what she told the UVA administration, which chose not to act on her allegations in any way — i.e., the overarching point of the article. THAT is the story: the culture that greeted her and so many other UVA women I interviewed, who came forward with allegations, only to be met with indifference.”

I'm not sure what's going on here, but the moment some starts in on "the culture of....", it's usually means that the truth doesn't really matter if one is trying to draw attention to a cause. Unfortunately, for the boys involved, the truth DOES matter, just like it did with the Duke boys - who were tried and convicted in the media....erroneously.

Anonymous wrote:There are many articles out there about this that elaborate on the RS article. Try reading the Charlottesville and UVA papers for starters. It has been noted in multiple articles that Charlottesville PD and the VA State police are already investigating, and UVA has hired an outside law firm to conduct an independent investigation of how UVA handled this and other reports of sexual assault. That would be the O'Melveny and Myers firm if anyone cares. UVA would not be spending $800 an hour on some big name attorneys if they didn't think this was real. One official even stated "we have the names." The Cavalier Daily has some pieces about this that go into a little more detail on the fall out and the Roanoke Times actually does a good job of it. Several names were outed on Fairfax Underground and right after that, certain of the boys (they do not deserve to called men) deleted their facebook and linkedin pages. 4Chan and Reddit had names too. There is a complete list of the member of Phi Psi at that time floating around and if the internet has it, I'm pretty sure the police have it. Shit, even I have it. It was not that hard to find. Everybody can stop defending Phi Psi and saying maybe this is all a hoax. It's only a matter of time now.

I hope those boys are shaking in their chickenshit boots, I hope they're brought to trial and convicted, and that their lives crumble.

I agree with the RS reporter that the point of this story is not to expose individual rapists' crimes or identify them publicly. The point of the article was to discuss the culture at UVA, an institution that believes that sexual assault is a crime better adjudicated internally and presents that internal process on the same level as pressing charges against rapists. They are not on the same level. Victims do not appear to be being properly advised, as in at least one case involving sexual assault at UVA, the victim was incorrectly advised by the university that Charlottesville cops do not have jurisdiction on university property.

Given the many, many stories that have come out about UVA, from the RS article (which some of you seem to be dismissing as not a reputably publication, but honestly, as far as feature magazine journalism, it's very, very good and articles like this one are well researched and fact checked to the best of a reporter and editor's ability) to the Hannah Graham and Yeardley Love and Morgan Harrington to the general culture of frat parties, binge drinking and promiscuity. It's not just THIS article talking about it. It's a lot of articles, from a lot of publications, about a lot of victims, some of whom are no longer able to press charges due to no longer being alive, all of which demonstrates a pattern of victimization and an institutional culture that condones that victimization.

Anonymous wrote:There are many articles out there about this that elaborate on the RS article. Try reading the Charlottesville and UVA papers for starters. It has been noted in multiple articles that Charlottesville PD and the VA State police are already investigating, and UVA has hired an outside law firm to conduct an independent investigation of how UVA handled this and other reports of sexual assault. That would be the O'Melveny and Myers firm if anyone cares. UVA would not be spending $800 an hour on some big name attorneys if they didn't think this was real. One official even stated "we have the names." The Cavalier Daily has some pieces about this that go into a little more detail on the fall out and the Roanoke Times actually does a good job of it. Several names were outed on Fairfax Underground and right after that, certain of the boys (they do not deserve to called men) deleted their facebook and linkedin pages. 4Chan and Reddit had names too. There is a complete list of the member of Phi Psi at that time floating around and if the internet has it, I'm pretty sure the police have it. Shit, even I have it. It was not that hard to find. Everybody can stop defending Phi Psi and saying maybe this is all a hoax. It's only a matter of time now.

Everybody is saying this is all a hoax? After the Duke case I’m just more skeptical. Many on here had those guys tried and convicted before any of the evidence came out.

Anonymous wrote:There are many articles out there about this that elaborate on the RS article. Try reading the Charlottesville and UVA papers for starters. It has been noted in multiple articles that Charlottesville PD and the VA State police are already investigating, and UVA has hired an outside law firm to conduct an independent investigation of how UVA handled this and other reports of sexual assault. That would be the O'Melveny and Myers firm if anyone cares. UVA would not be spending $800 an hour on some big name attorneys if they didn't think this was real. One official even stated "we have the names." The Cavalier Daily has some pieces about this that go into a little more detail on the fall out and the Roanoke Times actually does a good job of it. Several names were outed on Fairfax Underground and right after that, certain of the boys (they do not deserve to called men) deleted their facebook and linkedin pages. 4Chan and Reddit had names too. There is a complete list of the member of Phi Psi at that time floating around and if the internet has it, I'm pretty sure the police have it. Shit, even I have it. It was not that hard to find. Everybody can stop defending Phi Psi and saying maybe this is all a hoax. It's only a matter of time now.

Now there is a reliable source! Where is the rolling on the floor laughing emoticon?

There are many articles out there about this that elaborate on the RS article. Try reading the Charlottesville and UVA papers for starters. It has been noted in multiple articles that Charlottesville PD and the VA State police are already investigating, and UVA has hired an outside law firm to conduct an independent investigation of how UVA handled this and other reports of sexual assault. That would be the O'Melveny and Myers firm if anyone cares. UVA would not be spending $800 an hour on some big name attorneys if they didn't think this was real. One official even stated "we have the names." The Cavalier Daily has some pieces about this that go into a little more detail on the fall out and the Roanoke Times actually does a good job of it. Several names were outed on Fairfax Underground and right after that, certain of the boys (they do not deserve to called men) deleted their facebook and linkedin pages. 4Chan and Reddit had names too. There is a complete list of the member of Phi Psi at that time floating around and if the internet has it, I'm pretty sure the police have it. Shit, even I have it. It was not that hard to find. Everybody can stop defending Phi Psi and saying maybe this is all a hoax. It's only a matter of time now.

I read the article. It said she recognized one of her assailants. Has she named him?
This thread is really confusing. Some say the alleged perps confessed and their names are known, and others are saying she refuses to cooperate with the investigation and can’t or hasn’t named her assailants.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody who reads the the RS article needs to report it. The Charlottesville police and the VA State Police are already investigating this crime, and there was a crime. This is no hoax. Note that not one person now or previously in Phi Psi, not even anonymously through a lawyer, has denied that that it happened. The police have the names that are known to the victim. The article isn't clear on whether she knew or later learned all the names, but she knew Drew's and she could find out the guy in her anthropology class and I'm sure UVA could figure out more. She did report the crime, in different ways to different people, along the way. UVA first learned of it later that school year, early in the second semester or maybe even towards the end of the first as far as I know. More than two dozen people in the UVA administration knew about this for nearly two years before the RS article was released. Now we can only hope that the police do their jobs, that the Commonwealth's attorney decides to pursue this, and that the guilty are brought to court to answer for their crimes or defend themselves.

How do you know?

The article states these facts. News outlets have also reported these facts. But there is also a lot of critique of the article going on today:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/author-of-rolling-stone-story-on-alleged-u-va-rape-didnt-talk-to-accused-perpetrators/2014/12/01/e4c19408-7999-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html

Correction ... the article states these allegations. There are very few certifiable facts presented in the article ... even now RS and the author are separating themselves somewhat from the veracity of the story, instead referring to the article as a telling of "Jackie's story."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody who reads the the RS article needs to report it. The Charlottesville police and the VA State Police are already investigating this crime, and there was a crime. This is no hoax. Note that not one person now or previously in Phi Psi, not even anonymously through a lawyer, has denied that that it happened. The police have the names that are known to the victim. The article isn't clear on whether she knew or later learned all the names, but she knew Drew's and she could find out the guy in her anthropology class and I'm sure UVA could figure out more. She did report the crime, in different ways to different people, along the way. UVA first learned of it later that school year, early in the second semester or maybe even towards the end of the first as far as I know. More than two dozen people in the UVA administration knew about this for nearly two years before the RS article was released. Now we can only hope that the police do their jobs, that the Commonwealth's attorney decides to pursue this, and that the guilty are brought to court to answer for their crimes or defend themselves.

How do you know?

The article states these facts. News outlets have also reported these facts. But there is also a lot of critique of the article going on today:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/author-of-rolling-stone-story-on-alleged-u-va-rape-didnt-talk-to-accused-perpetrators/2014/12/01/e4c19408-7999-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html

Shoddy journalism now being exposed. The reporter had plenty of time to investigate, but didn't speak to the alleged perpetrators because "they were kind of hard to get in touch with."

Bin Laden was "kind of hard to get in touch with." The leadership of ISIS is "kind of hard to get in touch with." You probably need to work really hard to set up an interview with Netanyahu or Abbas. But current/former UVA students are probably not so hard to track down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody who reads the the RS article needs to report it. The Charlottesville police and the VA State Police are already investigating this crime, and there was a crime. This is no hoax. Note that not one person now or previously in Phi Psi, not even anonymously through a lawyer, has denied that that it happened. The police have the names that are known to the victim. The article isn't clear on whether she knew or later learned all the names, but she knew Drew's and she could find out the guy in her anthropology class and I'm sure UVA could figure out more. She did report the crime, in different ways to different people, along the way. UVA first learned of it later that school year, early in the second semester or maybe even towards the end of the first as far as I know. More than two dozen people in the UVA administration knew about this for nearly two years before the RS article was released. Now we can only hope that the police do their jobs, that the Commonwealth's attorney decides to pursue this, and that the guilty are brought to court to answer for their crimes or defend themselves.

How do you know?

The article states these facts. News outlets have also reported these facts. But there is also a lot of critique of the article going on today:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/author-of-rolling-stone-story-on-alleged-u-va-rape-didnt-talk-to-accused-perpetrators/2014/12/01/e4c19408-7999-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html

Anonymous wrote:Nobody who reads the the RS article needs to report it. The Charlottesville police and the VA State Police are already investigating this crime, and there was a crime. This is no hoax. Note that not one person now or previously in Phi Psi, not even anonymously through a lawyer, has denied that that it happened. The police have the names that are known to the victim. The article isn't clear on whether she knew or later learned all the names, but she knew Drew's and she could find out the guy in her anthropology class and I'm sure UVA could figure out more. She did report the crime, in different ways to different people, along the way. UVA first learned of it later that school year, early in the second semester or maybe even towards the end of the first as far as I know. More than two dozen people in the UVA administration knew about this for nearly two years before the RS article was released. Now we can only hope that the police do their jobs, that the Commonwealth's attorney decides to pursue this, and that the guilty are brought to court to answer for their crimes or defend themselves.

How do you know?

Anonymous wrote:Nobody who reads the the RS article needs to report it. The Charlottesville police and the VA State Police are already investigating this crime, and there was a crime. This is no hoax. Note that not one person now or previously in Phi Psi, not even anonymously through a lawyer, has denied that that it happened. The police have the names that are known to the victim. The article isn't clear on whether she knew or later learned all the names, but she knew Drew's and she could find out the guy in her anthropology class and I'm sure UVA could figure out more. She did report the crime, in different ways to different people, along the way. UVA first learned of it later that school year, early in the second semester or maybe even towards the end of the first as far as I know. More than two dozen people in the UVA administration knew about this for nearly two years before the RS article was released. Now we can only hope that the police do their jobs, that the Commonwealth's attorney decides to pursue this, and that the guilty are brought to court to answer for their crimes or defend themselves.

You're acting like no one has ever fabricated a sensational story.

Anonymous wrote:Nobody who reads the the RS article needs to report it. The Charlottesville police and the VA State Police are already investigating this crime, and there was a crime. This is no hoax. Note that not one person now or previously in Phi Psi, not even anonymously through a lawyer, has denied that that it happened. The police have the names that are known to the victim. The article isn't clear on whether she knew or later learned all the names, but she knew Drew's and she could find out the guy in her anthropology class and I'm sure UVA could figure out more. She did report the crime, in different ways to different people, along the way. UVA first learned of it later that school year, early in the second semester or maybe even towards the end of the first as far as I know. More than two dozen people in the UVA administration knew about this for nearly two years before the RS article was released. Now we can only hope that the police do their jobs, that the Commonwealth's attorney decides to pursue this, and that the guilty are brought to court to answer for their crimes or defend themselves.

+1 and that those in the UVA administration with knowledge of the events are held legally and perhaps criminally accountable for this unbelievable and indefensible culture they've have allowed to exist at the school.

Nobody who reads the the RS article needs to report it. The Charlottesville police and the VA State Police are already investigating this crime, and there was a crime. This is no hoax. Note that not one person now or previously in Phi Psi, not even anonymously through a lawyer, has denied that that it happened. The police have the names that are known to the victim. The article isn't clear on whether she knew or later learned all the names, but she knew Drew's and she could find out the guy in her anthropology class and I'm sure UVA could figure out more. She did report the crime, in different ways to different people, along the way. UVA first learned of it later that school year, early in the second semester or maybe even towards the end of the first as far as I know. More than two dozen people in the UVA administration knew about this for nearly two years before the RS article was released. Now we can only hope that the police do their jobs, that the Commonwealth's attorney decides to pursue this, and that the guilty are brought to court to answer for their crimes or defend themselves.

Anonymous wrote:I wish we'd stop arguing about the nitty gritty of this particular case, and start talking about the greater wrong, which is indisputable. I am the PP who was asked by another PP what we can do about this, and I do not know. But I'd like the discussion to turn to that. There is so much that needs to change for our kids to be safe. (Girls and boys) Can we brainstorm a bit on what we can do that is productive?

Ban sexual violence from video games? That seems an obvious start.

Iceland just banned pornography. That should be up for discussion. Germany just created a law that 30% of the leadership in any business needs to be female. That'd go over like a lead balloon in our quota-hating society, but I think it'd be good for us. What else?

Assemblies about sexual violence at high schools? By reformed offenders, or by survivors (though I don't want to put the burden on them.)

I went to a progressive school on the West Coast, and while I have no doubt there were things like this that occurred from time to time it was in no way entrenched in the culture the way it seems to be at UVA. UVA has a patriarchal and antiquated culture, which is pretty unique to the south, and the students obviously totally buy into it. I don't want my daughter to wear pearls to football games or talk about her ancestors at parties with men in pastel pants who think its okay to be rapists. The trappings lure people in, and they think its all charming and old money and preppy, but its just a veneer over a culture of male dominance and endorsement of objectification of women. I am not sure about the scope of the problem at other schools, but I do know women are entering colleges at larger numbers than their male peers and are doing better academically than ever before. I also think we as a society are more aware than ever before. I am guessing that the odds of getting raped or assaulted at the average non total d-bag school like UVA are about equal to going to a bar, honestly. Odds go up if you are wasted or drugged. The issue I think so many of us feel with the UVA story is the school's endorsement of the behavior.