Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

No, of course it’s not optional. Many PPs are just saying that a lot of moms totally overdo it for the holidays. And they expect everyone else (usually the dad) to be on board with doing the excessive, pointless holiday tasks.

I’m in my 50s, and my parents didn’t make a big deal about holidays or birthdays. It completely sucked for me as a kid. People on this thread who are downplaying holidays and birthdays are in denial or are just completely clueless crappy parents.

Your experience is valid, but not universal. Growing up, we only celebrated the big birthdays: 3, 5, 10. For the other birthdays, they gave us money from about age 8 and bought a cake and sang Happy Birthday. By 12, if you wanted friends over for your birthday, you took the lead and helped organize. My 4 siblings and I thought it was great. Many of my kids' friends do movie night, pizza and popcorn with about 6 friends at home.

My siblings and I still think birthdays are important to the extent that we never forget to call each other and say Happy Birthday. This is what we cherish, not the parties.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

No, of course it’s not optional. Many PPs are just saying that a lot of moms totally overdo it for the holidays. And they expect everyone else (usually the dad) to be on board with doing the excessive, pointless holiday tasks.

I’m in my 50s, and my parents didn’t make a big deal about holidays or birthdays. It completely sucked for me as a kid. People on this thread who are downplaying holidays and birthdays are in denial or are just completely clueless crappy parents.

Your experience is valid, but not universal. Growing up, we only celebrated the big birthdays: 3, 5, 10. For the other birthdays, they gave us money from about age 8 and bought a cake and sang Happy Birthday. By 12, if you wanted friends over for your birthday, you took the lead and helped organize. My 4 siblings and I thought it was great. Many of my kids' friends do movie night, pizza and popcorn with about 6 friends at home.

My siblings and I still think birthdays are important to the extent that we never forget to call each other and say Happy Birthday. This is what we cherish, not the parties.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

No, of course it’s not optional. Many PPs are just saying that a lot of moms totally overdo it for the holidays. And they expect everyone else (usually the dad) to be on board with doing the excessive, pointless holiday tasks.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else? Not sure if this is a vent or what.

I’m expected or at least need to earn a living and contribute to maintain our lifestyle

But all the planning is on me. He hasn’t volunteered to do anything for Christmas. He’s never going to volunteer. I can assign him something and he will do it but he automatically assumes I will handle it all. I’m supposed to be fortunate he will contribute if asked. We both have jobs that are just as demanding.

I’m frustrated and there is not a solution. Regret getting married and signing up for this. I’ve talked to him and nothing will change. I vacillate between thinking he’s incompetent and he is taking advantage of me.

When can I be free of this? Never?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

If you get angry about it, it affects your mental health, or it affects your marriage, then yes it’s optional.

Sorry but are you pretending that “not doing the holidays” is the key problem or the fact that your life partner doesn’t participate in any aspect of family life, including holidays, is the problem?

I’d argue the latter is the root driver of ALL the marital problems. Not doing holidays is just another symptom of having a ssshitty spouse who dumps everything on the functional spouse who actually cares about things.

Are we now firmly in the part of the discussion where we have moved from optional activities to where your spouse does absolutely nothing for your children or household? Why are you married to such a dud? Accept or divorce. What else is there?

Holidays and birthdays are not actually optional. My exDH did a lot of sh*t but one of the worst was totally blowing off one of DC’s birthdays. I’ll always remember celebrating it alone in a Barnes and Noble with him. Luckily he was too young to notice. It was his 2nd birthday and we did a big party for his 1st so I wanted to be more low key. Guess exDH felt like that meant nothing at all.

A second birthday is the definition of optional. It’s for you, not the child.

+1

And yes. We’ve returned to “I’m not interested in solutions for myself or anyone else because [insert details about my failed marriage here]”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

If you get angry about it, it affects your mental health, or it affects your marriage, then yes it’s optional.

Sorry but are you pretending that “not doing the holidays” is the key problem or the fact that your life partner doesn’t participate in any aspect of family life, including holidays, is the problem?

I’d argue the latter is the root driver of ALL the marital problems. Not doing holidays is just another symptom of having a ssshitty spouse who dumps everything on the functional spouse who actually cares about things.

Are we now firmly in the part of the discussion where we have moved from optional activities to where your spouse does absolutely nothing for your children or household? Why are you married to such a dud? Accept or divorce. What else is there?

Holidays and birthdays are not actually optional. My exDH did a lot of sh*t but one of the worst was totally blowing off one of DC’s birthdays. I’ll always remember celebrating it alone in a Barnes and Noble with him. Luckily he was too young to notice. It was his 2nd birthday and we did a big party for his 1st so I wanted to be more low key. Guess exDH felt like that meant nothing at all.

Yes they are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

No, of course it’s not optional. Many PPs are just saying that a lot of moms totally overdo it for the holidays. And they expect everyone else (usually the dad) to be on board with doing the excessive, pointless holiday tasks.

I’m in my 50s, and my parents didn’t make a big deal about holidays or birthdays. It completely sucked for me as a kid. People on this thread who are downplaying holidays and birthdays are in denial or are just completely clueless crappy parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

Holidays, real vacations, sports, and experiences were not done at my aspergers in law’s home. Neither were birthday cakes.

Guess how they all turned out!?

Just fine?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

If you get angry about it, it affects your mental health, or it affects your marriage, then yes it’s optional.

Sorry but are you pretending that “not doing the holidays” is the key problem or the fact that your life partner doesn’t participate in any aspect of family life, including holidays, is the problem?

I’d argue the latter is the root driver of ALL the marital problems. Not doing holidays is just another symptom of having a ssshitty spouse who dumps everything on the functional spouse who actually cares about things.

Are we now firmly in the part of the discussion where we have moved from optional activities to where your spouse does absolutely nothing for your children or household? Why are you married to such a dud? Accept or divorce. What else is there?

Holidays and birthdays are not actually optional. My exDH did a lot of sh*t but one of the worst was totally blowing off one of DC’s birthdays. I’ll always remember celebrating it alone in a Barnes and Noble with him. Luckily he was too young to notice. It was his 2nd birthday and we did a big party for his 1st so I wanted to be more low key. Guess exDH felt like that meant nothing at all.

You are hilarious. For a 2 year old, buy a cupcake, take a picture with your cell phone. Done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

You do realize that men will say the same thing, except with regard to breadwinning.

Have you seen the stats on this? Or are you stuck in the 70s.

What’s “bread winning” mean? All you do is office work and are a paycheck? Wow.

Even not counting the 40% of pump and dump fathers who are never their children’s “breadwinner,” women are pulling their weight and more in all realms. Financial, parenting, maintaining the property, community, family traditions, emotional support, finding health treatments, schedule planning, socializing, finding appropriate ECs, etc.

Why do women marry men in the first place?? They seem to be completely unnecessary.

That's the scam. Tradition and religion both say it's important, because reasons, but both a predicated on ideas from a time when women literally had no other viable options for sustaining a life and livelihood. Owning property, having credit in her own name, working a job that can pay her own bills, etc. are all opportunities only relatively recently afforded to women, and there are plenty of "men" (in quotes, because not all men and certainly no good men) trying to revert back to rules and restrictions that would either directly or de facto remove those opportunities (keeping a woman pregnant and forcing the housework onto her mean she's less likely to have career success or even a career at all, just as an example).

Men don't know how to pull their weight because they didn't used to have to. Women don't know how not to settle because literally all the women who came before us did and that's what we saw, at least to some extent (yes, including your granny who stayed married for 60 years or whatever). Women who refuse to cater to men and capitulate to The Way Things Are are pariahs, and the people who will treat them most cruelly are actually other women who haven't the strength or the courage to try to correct the inequalities in their own homes and marriages. Just look at this thread.

+1! There is no need to get married and have kids. You can have kids on your own if you want them, or best arrangement— be in a house with other women and raise all your kids together. If you want sex there are always young guys available, but permanently attaching yourself to one is stupid.

+2. The only reason women marry is because they fear the judgment of other women. Like crabs in a jar.

Speak for yourself.

No way I was raising kids by myself.

So you’d rather raise kids with someone who only causes you additional problems instead of helping you? You are the problem then. Stop complaining and accept what you deliberately chose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Who gets to decide when is the home happy?
Women just can't grasp how little it actually takes to make a man happy. They need about 3 things and women need about 1,000. And women can't understand why men don't just jump and complete 500 chores that he doesn't care about or even think to do because happiness was achieved 997 chores ago

What about the kids?

450 of those chores are for the kids. You misinterpret them as being for your wife's "happiness" when she's really just trying to help you fulfill your obligation as a dad.

AND because she has the ability to engage in planning a long term thinking, she also understand that a lot of what she's trying to get you to do is actually essential to your longterm happiness. Because if you do what you want, which is the bare minimum, your kids will eventually come to resent you and not want to spend time with you. And there is going to come a day when you suddenly want a family around you who cares about you. And you're going to be mad when your kids are like "Sorry, Dad, I'm so busy with work. Happy birthday though." Even though this is literally what you did to them and your wife for decades. This is precisely what all those things she's trying to get you to do is designed to prevent, but you are too shortsighted to realize this.

You will wind up angry and alone and wondering why your family has abandoned you, and I'm here to tell you that it's because you refused to give a damn about the happiness of your wife or children so they stopped giving a damn about yours.

This is a thread about optional tasks. It’s clear many of the posters here are unable to decide what’s important and prioritize.

The only person who ends up angry is the person who cannot prioritize and thinks her whole family should do the things she thinks is important.
-a woman who doesn’t engage in fake work

Is celebrating the holidays optional when you have kids?

No, of course it’s not optional. Many PPs are just saying that a lot of moms totally overdo it for the holidays. And they expect everyone else (usually the dad) to be on board with doing the excessive, pointless holiday tasks.