Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This thread is 28 pages, and AFAICT not a single pro-RTO person has explained why it is better or necessary to have people commute to an office 5d/week where they will be on virtual calls at least half the time.

I don't know anyone who has no childcare and WFH. That's a strawman. But if you WFH, it's much easier to find and afford childcare since you don't have to account for commuting time.

This is the issue. FT RTO is being proposed solely to punish federal workers, for no other reason. And if you think that private sector employers won't see that they can also use this tactic with impunity (rather than layoffs with severance), you are an idiot.

Lots of people have made arguments, you just disagree with them. That’s fine, but don’t pretend the arguments done exist. I will try to briefly summarize, not to argue big just to clarify: Many federal employees wouldn’t spend half their day on Teams if everyone was in person. They would be interacting with their colleagues and there is arguably some benefit to in person interaction. Also, downtown DC would benefit from a returning federal employee customer base. Finally, there is some benefit to federal managers and leaders who often find it easier to manage in person.

Again, you don’t have to agree with any of these arguments. But don’t pretend that everyone who disagrees with you is entirely mean-spirited or everyone who doesn’t adopt your views an idiot.

This is such an insane comment and I can’t believe someone believes it. You’re clueless about how the nature of work has changed.

No, we wouldn’t stop using Teams. It makes it easier and better to share documents and conduct a meeting. Just like it’s easier and better to share a document via email versus a fax. Do you think we’d all go back to printing out documents and handing them to each other if we RTO? Nope, we’d still use email.

No one said you would stop using teams, they said “Many federal employees wouldn’t spend half their day on Teams if everyone was in person.” Many is not all and this is in response to someone saying they currently spend half their day on teams, could that go down in the slightest if some of your colleagues were in person with you?

Honestly the screeching obstinance on this RTO issue comes through loud and clear and is playing into the hands of those who would end all flexibility. You people sound insane and incapable of imagining anything different from what you currently have.

+1 I can't wait to be able to stand at someone's desk so they can't ignore me after I've messaged and called and emailed for two weeks. I'm so sick of people hiding behind Teams and pretending like they are busy. So much easier to be an a-hole when you don't have to actually encounter a human being.

If this is a real problem, it doesn't sound like a WFH issue.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Another reason why 1950s America was better.

my mom had to quit her job when she married. She was not allowed to have a credit card in her name until 1972. She was white. It was NOT better in the 1950’s.

My mom was kicked out of the military for getting pregnant. But yeah. It was totally better back then.

This doesn’t seem unreasonable.

did men get kicked out for getting a woman pregnant?

I’m truly sorry that you don’t understand basic biology. A pregnancy can actually impact a woman’s ability to do her job, particularly in highly physical jobs such as the military.

If it’s just punishment for a rules violation, a woman is easier to catch (I would think this would be obvious) because… she’s pregnant.

True, it’s impossible to reassign someone temporarily due to a physical condition. I’m sure every man in the military was dismissed if he got injured.

Many men *were* (and still are) dismissed if they got injured, actually. Have you never heard of a discharge?

Sounds like the PP’s mom got knocked up, against the rules of her employment, and wants to cry sexism when she suffered the consequences of her actions.

The point is that the rule is sexist. If my employer required me to wear a skirt to work it would be predictable that I'd be fired if I wore pants. It would also be sexist.

Nature is sexist. Women get pregnant, men do not. Being in a physically demanding job while pregnant is a problem; being in a physically demanding job while someone else is pregnant (even if you impregnated them) is not.

Welcome to reality.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another reason why 1950s America was better.

my mom had to quit her job when she married. She was not allowed to have a credit card in her name until 1972. She was white. It was NOT better in the 1950’s.

My mom was kicked out of the military for getting pregnant. But yeah. It was totally better back then.

This doesn’t seem unreasonable.

did men get kicked out for getting a woman pregnant?

I’m truly sorry that you don’t understand basic biology. A pregnancy can actually impact a woman’s ability to do her job, particularly in highly physical jobs such as the military.

If it’s just punishment for a rules violation, a woman is easier to catch (I would think this would be obvious) because… she’s pregnant.

True, it’s impossible to reassign someone temporarily due to a physical condition. I’m sure every man in the military was dismissed if he got injured.

Many men *were* (and still are) dismissed if they got injured, actually. Have you never heard of a discharge?

Sounds like the PP’s mom got knocked up, against the rules of her employment, and wants to cry sexism when she suffered the consequences of her actions.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another reason why 1950s America was better.

my mom had to quit her job when she married. She was not allowed to have a credit card in her name until 1972. She was white. It was NOT better in the 1950’s.

My mom was kicked out of the military for getting pregnant. But yeah. It was totally better back then.

This doesn’t seem unreasonable.

Yeah, she totally couldn't handle her supply officer duties while pregnant.

If the terms of her employment included her not being pregnant, she simply should not have chosen to get pregnant if she wanted to keep her job. It’s not complicated.

You know birth control fails, right? And forced abortions are gross? And the Supreme Court overturned this because it was patently wrong, not to mention immoral?

But no one forced her to have an abortion, did they? They honorably discharged her. Quite different.

You never served, did you? POS.

LOL. Do you throw tantrums about everything that doesn’t go your way? Your parents failed you spectacularly.

Truth hurts, huh? Go harass someone else with your pathetic sexism. By the way, women service in combat now. I hope that chaps your butt raw.

And do you think that *pregnant women* should be serving in freaking COMBAT?

Nobody said that you moron.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a bit of an outlier here in that our only kid still at home is a middle schooler so I fully remember the pre-Covid times of paying for aftercare at the parochial school our kid attends. We'll make RTO work but it comes with logistical challenges and financial tradeoffs.

For neighborhood families with younger kids in public school, there are very limited after-school options even at the beginning of the school year. Incoming kindergarten parents are often scrambling and being wait listed at places.

I live in Howard County and HCPS elementary schools offer before and aftercare for working parents. I assumed other elementary schools did as well…

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Anonymous wrote:In reading the threads about RTO, I have been amazed at how many could not return because they lack childcare. I have said for years, one positive of COVID has been the bandwidth for working mothers that generous telework has allowed. As I went from active duty military to FED, I have always had childcare and still do; but I recognize that is because my military career embedded that need. There is a childcare shortage in this country - especially in NOVA. Could you not RTO due to lack of childcare? Or the cost of childcare would make it uneconomical? If so, are you a woman?

Why are parents entitled to outsourcing their child for cheap? Hiring a complete stranger to essentially parent your child is a luxury, as caregivers have just as many living expenses as you do.

I’ve thought about this too. They’re taking care of your precious kids! Don’t go cheap.

I had two kids who were in daycare from the time they were 12 weeks old, until they started kindergarten. It wasn’t cheap, I didn’t make a lot and DH made even less for a while when we had our first. So no fancy extras for us, one inexpensive vacation a year, not many meals out, only one car payment.

I think a certain number of people have gotten used to not paying for daycare or before-after care and are spending that money elsewhere and don’t want to make cuts to lifestyle.

Anonymous wrote:
Not only is there a lack of childcare in general, there is a distinct lack of GOOD childcare. Also, even bad childcare is too expensive. Childcare should be subsidized by the government if they're serious about leveling the playing field for women, because the burden of house and children still falls disproportionately on women.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another reason why 1950s America was better.

my mom had to quit her job when she married. She was not allowed to have a credit card in her name until 1972. She was white. It was NOT better in the 1950’s.

My mom was kicked out of the military for getting pregnant. But yeah. It was totally better back then.

This doesn’t seem unreasonable.

Yeah, she totally couldn't handle her supply officer duties while pregnant.

If the terms of her employment included her not being pregnant, she simply should not have chosen to get pregnant if she wanted to keep her job. It’s not complicated.

You know birth control fails, right? And forced abortions are gross? And the Supreme Court overturned this because it was patently wrong, not to mention immoral?

But no one forced her to have an abortion, did they? They honorably discharged her. Quite different.

You never served, did you? POS.

LOL. Do you throw tantrums about everything that doesn’t go your way? Your parents failed you spectacularly.

Truth hurts, huh? Go harass someone else with your pathetic sexism. By the way, women service in combat now. I hope that chaps your butt raw.

Anonymous wrote:I can’t even find expensive after school childcare, short of hearing a personal nanny or chauffeur for my kid. This problem is nobody’s responsibility to solve except each family in their own. It’s a failure of society

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Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

“Couldn’t find a better father?” Really? That is so rude and uncalled for.

Sorry your husband might be out of a job in IT and actually have to work? So many people I know in tech and IT are getting laid off and those who finally found new roles have a rude awakening. One friend a PhD / MD but in biotech was laid off and is now complaining that he can’t pick his kids up at 3 and be done for the day, he now has to actually work!

Many people don’t have that same reality- talk to teachers, nurses, health aides, lawyers, etc, who have to be in the office or hospital. They actually work when they are meant to instead of having “work / life balance” and go do the grocery run in the middle of the day?

Also it was your choice to live where you are living I am kind of sick of this commute business. I grew up
In a small town with mediocre schools so I could be close to my mom’s work. I worked hard and got myself into a good college. You don’t need a McMansion an hour from your job and if that’s what you want good for you but then stop complaining about the commute.

My husband and I live in a small house and we can both walk or bike to work. Our child is in a good school although if we moved out the public schools are considered “better” but we made our choice.

If you aren’t happy with what is on offer then get a new job. It’s a two way street.

I know I'm a million pages behind, but this comparison right here is not the same. Aside from lawyers (many of whom I know work from home and have flexible schedules and are also compensated very well), teachers, nurses and health aides have pretty flexible schedules. My school district has days off all the time (not including summer), and the parking lot is empty 20 minutes after school is over. This is nothing against teachers, but the argument here is 50 hours/week in the office with long commutes on both sides. We need to compare apples to apples here which this is not doing.

Let’s set this record straight.

I’m a teacher. I do NOT have a flexible job when it comes to childcare. I often can’t take leave. My kid is sick? I need to go in because I can’t get a sub, so I have to rely on my small network. And doctors’ appts? I’m limited to Saturdays or appts after 4pm, which means I wait months to go. And my own children’s events? Forget about it. I’ve never made one since they are during school hours. I experience them through pictures other parents take. Again: limited subs.

And hours? I work over 60 a week. Minimum. I was at work at 6am this morning and left at 4. I brought home about 2-3 hours to prep for tomorrow. So when you saw me leave early? You didn’t know I ARRIVED early and still have work to do at home.

And commutes? I work 35 minutes from home.

So let’s avoid telling me I somehow have it so much easier than you. I don’t make assumptions about your job, so kindly don’t make assumptions about mine.

DP, I would not call teaching a flexible job but I’m calling BS on the idea that you’re putting in a 60 hour work week. You can make legitimate points without relying on that kind of ridiculous exaggeration.

I hate having my reality questioned by others. So here we go:

I collected 140 essays today, each 3-5 pages in length. Handwritten. I need to comment on each (let’s say 15 minutes minimum). So that’s 35 hours of grading if I take NO STOPS to eat, sleep, etc.

And I get 1 hour a day at work to plan, grade, email, eat lunch. Half the time it’s taken from me so I can sub another class. So: 35 work hours during which I can’t get anything done.

And I also have to plan lessons (5-6 hours a week), respond to approximately 120 emails a week, attend multiple team meetings, oh (let’s not forget) TEACH 25 classes a week.

So guess what? 60 is a good week. 70 hours is normal, too.

Don’t speak when you’re ignorant. It isn’t a good look.

You’re going to double down with 70 hours a week? You just described actual teaching for 35 hours a week, which includes perhaps 1 hour per day for grading, responding to emails, etc., and then 5-6 hours of lesson planning a week, which is getting you to about a 40 hour work week, and then you threw 35 hours of grading per week on there. That isn’t real. If you are actually having to spend 70 hours per week on your job as a teacher you are woefully deficient at time management.

I’ve seen this poster many times. She’s always about to quit. But never does.

I’m a burned out humanities teacher too but I do an adequate job in my 35-40 hour week. I keep encouraging this poster to take shortcuts and just do less. They would still be well above average!

But they are right about the lack of flexibility. That’s rough on teachers.

But in a sense, you are proving my point about teaching. The only way to survive is to “do less.” Essentially, don’t do what I’m tasked to do: teach.

And you also mention you are burned out doing your 35-40 hours of “less”. What does that state about teaching?

I initially posted on this thread because PPs were saying that teachers don’t have the stress of commutes, childcare needs, and inflexible schedules. All of that isn’t true.

And when it turns to defending my profession, I’m going to do that. This site is notoriously anti-teacher, and I care enough about this profession to fight. There aren’t many of us left.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

“Couldn’t find a better father?” Really? That is so rude and uncalled for.

Sorry your husband might be out of a job in IT and actually have to work? So many people I know in tech and IT are getting laid off and those who finally found new roles have a rude awakening. One friend a PhD / MD but in biotech was laid off and is now complaining that he can’t pick his kids up at 3 and be done for the day, he now has to actually work!

Many people don’t have that same reality- talk to teachers, nurses, health aides, lawyers, etc, who have to be in the office or hospital. They actually work when they are meant to instead of having “work / life balance” and go do the grocery run in the middle of the day?

Also it was your choice to live where you are living I am kind of sick of this commute business. I grew up
In a small town with mediocre schools so I could be close to my mom’s work. I worked hard and got myself into a good college. You don’t need a McMansion an hour from your job and if that’s what you want good for you but then stop complaining about the commute.

My husband and I live in a small house and we can both walk or bike to work. Our child is in a good school although if we moved out the public schools are considered “better” but we made our choice.

If you aren’t happy with what is on offer then get a new job. It’s a two way street.

I know I'm a million pages behind, but this comparison right here is not the same. Aside from lawyers (many of whom I know work from home and have flexible schedules and are also compensated very well), teachers, nurses and health aides have pretty flexible schedules. My school district has days off all the time (not including summer), and the parking lot is empty 20 minutes after school is over. This is nothing against teachers, but the argument here is 50 hours/week in the office with long commutes on both sides. We need to compare apples to apples here which this is not doing.

Let’s set this record straight.

I’m a teacher. I do NOT have a flexible job when it comes to childcare. I often can’t take leave. My kid is sick? I need to go in because I can’t get a sub, so I have to rely on my small network. And doctors’ appts? I’m limited to Saturdays or appts after 4pm, which means I wait months to go. And my own children’s events? Forget about it. I’ve never made one since they are during school hours. I experience them through pictures other parents take. Again: limited subs.

And hours? I work over 60 a week. Minimum. I was at work at 6am this morning and left at 4. I brought home about 2-3 hours to prep for tomorrow. So when you saw me leave early? You didn’t know I ARRIVED early and still have work to do at home.

And commutes? I work 35 minutes from home.

So let’s avoid telling me I somehow have it so much easier than you. I don’t make assumptions about your job, so kindly don’t make assumptions about mine.

DP, I would not call teaching a flexible job but I’m calling BS on the idea that you’re putting in a 60 hour work week. You can make legitimate points without relying on that kind of ridiculous exaggeration.

I hate having my reality questioned by others. So here we go:

I collected 140 essays today, each 3-5 pages in length. Handwritten. I need to comment on each (let’s say 15 minutes minimum). So that’s 35 hours of grading if I take NO STOPS to eat, sleep, etc.

And I get 1 hour a day at work to plan, grade, email, eat lunch. Half the time it’s taken from me so I can sub another class. So: 35 work hours during which I can’t get anything done.

And I also have to plan lessons (5-6 hours a week), respond to approximately 120 emails a week, attend multiple team meetings, oh (let’s not forget) TEACH 25 classes a week.

So guess what? 60 is a good week. 70 hours is normal, too.

Don’t speak when you’re ignorant. It isn’t a good look.

You’re going to double down with 70 hours a week? You just described actual teaching for 35 hours a week, which includes perhaps 1 hour per day for grading, responding to emails, etc., and then 5-6 hours of lesson planning a week, which is getting you to about a 40 hour work week, and then you threw 35 hours of grading per week on there. That isn’t real. If you are actually having to spend 70 hours per week on your job as a teacher you are woefully deficient at time management.

I’ve seen this poster many times. She’s always about to quit. But never does.

I’m a burned out humanities teacher too but I do an adequate job in my 35-40 hour week. I keep encouraging this poster to take shortcuts and just do less. They would still be well above average!

But they are right about the lack of flexibility. That’s rough on teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

“Couldn’t find a better father?” Really? That is so rude and uncalled for.

Sorry your husband might be out of a job in IT and actually have to work? So many people I know in tech and IT are getting laid off and those who finally found new roles have a rude awakening. One friend a PhD / MD but in biotech was laid off and is now complaining that he can’t pick his kids up at 3 and be done for the day, he now has to actually work!

Many people don’t have that same reality- talk to teachers, nurses, health aides, lawyers, etc, who have to be in the office or hospital. They actually work when they are meant to instead of having “work / life balance” and go do the grocery run in the middle of the day?

Also it was your choice to live where you are living I am kind of sick of this commute business. I grew up
In a small town with mediocre schools so I could be close to my mom’s work. I worked hard and got myself into a good college. You don’t need a McMansion an hour from your job and if that’s what you want good for you but then stop complaining about the commute.

My husband and I live in a small house and we can both walk or bike to work. Our child is in a good school although if we moved out the public schools are considered “better” but we made our choice.

If you aren’t happy with what is on offer then get a new job. It’s a two way street.

I know I'm a million pages behind, but this comparison right here is not the same. Aside from lawyers (many of whom I know work from home and have flexible schedules and are also compensated very well), teachers, nurses and health aides have pretty flexible schedules. My school district has days off all the time (not including summer), and the parking lot is empty 20 minutes after school is over. This is nothing against teachers, but the argument here is 50 hours/week in the office with long commutes on both sides. We need to compare apples to apples here which this is not doing.

Let’s set this record straight.

I’m a teacher. I do NOT have a flexible job when it comes to childcare. I often can’t take leave. My kid is sick? I need to go in because I can’t get a sub, so I have to rely on my small network. And doctors’ appts? I’m limited to Saturdays or appts after 4pm, which means I wait months to go. And my own children’s events? Forget about it. I’ve never made one since they are during school hours. I experience them through pictures other parents take. Again: limited subs.

And hours? I work over 60 a week. Minimum. I was at work at 6am this morning and left at 4. I brought home about 2-3 hours to prep for tomorrow. So when you saw me leave early? You didn’t know I ARRIVED early and still have work to do at home.

And commutes? I work 35 minutes from home.

So let’s avoid telling me I somehow have it so much easier than you. I don’t make assumptions about your job, so kindly don’t make assumptions about mine.

DP, I would not call teaching a flexible job but I’m calling BS on the idea that you’re putting in a 60 hour work week. You can make legitimate points without relying on that kind of ridiculous exaggeration.

I hate having my reality questioned by others. So here we go:

I collected 140 essays today, each 3-5 pages in length. Handwritten. I need to comment on each (let’s say 15 minutes minimum). So that’s 35 hours of grading if I take NO STOPS to eat, sleep, etc.

And I get 1 hour a day at work to plan, grade, email, eat lunch. Half the time it’s taken from me so I can sub another class. So: 35 work hours during which I can’t get anything done.

And I also have to plan lessons (5-6 hours a week), respond to approximately 120 emails a week, attend multiple team meetings, oh (let’s not forget) TEACH 25 classes a week.

So guess what? 60 is a good week. 70 hours is normal, too.

Don’t speak when you’re ignorant. It isn’t a good look.

You’re going to double down with 70 hours a week? You just described actual teaching for 35 hours a week, which includes perhaps 1 hour per day for grading, responding to emails, etc., and then 5-6 hours of lesson planning a week, which is getting you to about a 40 hour work week, and then you threw 35 hours of grading per week on there. That isn’t real. If you are actually having to spend 70 hours per week on your job as a teacher you are woefully deficient at time management.

I’ve seen this poster many times. She’s always about to quit. But never does.

I’m a burned out humanities teacher too but I do an adequate job in my 35-40 hour week. I keep encouraging this poster to take shortcuts and just do less. They would still be well above average!

But they are right about the lack of flexibility. That’s rough on teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

“Couldn’t find a better father?” Really? That is so rude and uncalled for.

Sorry your husband might be out of a job in IT and actually have to work? So many people I know in tech and IT are getting laid off and those who finally found new roles have a rude awakening. One friend a PhD / MD but in biotech was laid off and is now complaining that he can’t pick his kids up at 3 and be done for the day, he now has to actually work!

Many people don’t have that same reality- talk to teachers, nurses, health aides, lawyers, etc, who have to be in the office or hospital. They actually work when they are meant to instead of having “work / life balance” and go do the grocery run in the middle of the day?

Also it was your choice to live where you are living I am kind of sick of this commute business. I grew up
In a small town with mediocre schools so I could be close to my mom’s work. I worked hard and got myself into a good college. You don’t need a McMansion an hour from your job and if that’s what you want good for you but then stop complaining about the commute.

My husband and I live in a small house and we can both walk or bike to work. Our child is in a good school although if we moved out the public schools are considered “better” but we made our choice.

If you aren’t happy with what is on offer then get a new job. It’s a two way street.

I know I'm a million pages behind, but this comparison right here is not the same. Aside from lawyers (many of whom I know work from home and have flexible schedules and are also compensated very well), teachers, nurses and health aides have pretty flexible schedules. My school district has days off all the time (not including summer), and the parking lot is empty 20 minutes after school is over. This is nothing against teachers, but the argument here is 50 hours/week in the office with long commutes on both sides. We need to compare apples to apples here which this is not doing.

Let’s set this record straight.

I’m a teacher. I do NOT have a flexible job when it comes to childcare. I often can’t take leave. My kid is sick? I need to go in because I can’t get a sub, so I have to rely on my small network. And doctors’ appts? I’m limited to Saturdays or appts after 4pm, which means I wait months to go. And my own children’s events? Forget about it. I’ve never made one since they are during school hours. I experience them through pictures other parents take. Again: limited subs.

And hours? I work over 60 a week. Minimum. I was at work at 6am this morning and left at 4. I brought home about 2-3 hours to prep for tomorrow. So when you saw me leave early? You didn’t know I ARRIVED early and still have work to do at home.

And commutes? I work 35 minutes from home.

So let’s avoid telling me I somehow have it so much easier than you. I don’t make assumptions about your job, so kindly don’t make assumptions about mine.

DP, I would not call teaching a flexible job but I’m calling BS on the idea that you’re putting in a 60 hour work week. You can make legitimate points without relying on that kind of ridiculous exaggeration.

I hate having my reality questioned by others. So here we go:

I collected 140 essays today, each 3-5 pages in length. Handwritten. I need to comment on each (let’s say 15 minutes minimum). So that’s 35 hours of grading if I take NO STOPS to eat, sleep, etc.

And I get 1 hour a day at work to plan, grade, email, eat lunch. Half the time it’s taken from me so I can sub another class. So: 35 work hours during which I can’t get anything done.

And I also have to plan lessons (5-6 hours a week), respond to approximately 120 emails a week, attend multiple team meetings, oh (let’s not forget) TEACH 25 classes a week.

So guess what? 60 is a good week. 70 hours is normal, too.

Don’t speak when you’re ignorant. It isn’t a good look.

You’re going to double down with 70 hours a week? You just described actual teaching for 35 hours a week, which includes perhaps 1 hour per day for grading, responding to emails, etc., and then 5-6 hours of lesson planning a week, which is getting you to about a 40 hour work week, and then you threw 35 hours of grading per week on there. That isn’t real. If you are actually having to spend 70 hours per week on your job as a teacher you are woefully deficient at time management.