Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 11:18     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


Not by the Colorado SC.


Colorado has no jurisdiction for an alleged crime in DC.


That is not the question. They have jurisdiction over their ballot, which in turn is dependent on a reading of the constitution, The Constitution simply says insurrection or rebellion, it does not say anything at all about criminal conviction or any of the other things you wish or imagine it said, Remember that there were not hundreds of thousands of criminal trials for every single person who participated in or supported the confederacy, the authors of the 14th Amendment did not require it.


A conviction is required, the confederates who fought in a civil war are not analogous (and some served post war in the federal government anyway) and this is a federal election (see Bush v Gore). Some of you actually think this Colorado case will stand. It won’t.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 11:16     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


Not by the Colorado SC.


Colorado has no jurisdiction for an alleged crime in DC.


That is not the question. They have jurisdiction over their ballot, which in turn is dependent on a reading of the constitution, The Constitution simply says insurrection or rebellion, it does not say anything at all about criminal conviction or any of the other things you wish or imagine it said, Remember that there were not hundreds of thousands of criminal trials for every single person who participated in or supported the confederacy, the authors of the 14th Amendment did not require it.


According to PP, Jefferson Davis, Robert Lee, and Nathan Bedford Forrest were all eligible for office under the 14th because they were never convicted of insurrection.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 11:07     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


Not by the Colorado SC.


Colorado has no jurisdiction for an alleged crime in DC.


That is not the question. They have jurisdiction over their ballot, which in turn is dependent on a reading of the constitution, The Constitution simply says insurrection or rebellion, it does not say anything at all about criminal conviction or any of the other things you wish or imagine it said, Remember that there were not hundreds of thousands of criminal trials for every single person who participated in or supported the confederacy, the authors of the 14th Amendment did not require it.


I'd give it up. PP is too simple-minded to grasp what you're saying.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 10:34     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


Not by the Colorado SC.


Colorado has no jurisdiction for an alleged crime in DC.


That is not the question. They have jurisdiction over their ballot, which in turn is dependent on a reading of the constitution, The Constitution simply says insurrection or rebellion, it does not say anything at all about criminal conviction or any of the other things you wish or imagine it said, Remember that there were not hundreds of thousands of criminal trials for every single person who participated in or supported the confederacy, the authors of the 14th Amendment did not require it.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 10:25     Subject: Re:Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:I'm really hoping that the Supreme Court passes on this case on states' rights grounds. Not sure why they would want/need to get involved, especially since doing so would open up multiple cans of worms for little benefit to anyone.


Of course they are going to act, otherwise you’ll see Biden disqualified for spurious causes from other state ballots with no recourse as will candidates on both sides of the aisle moving forward. Naive to think this stops at one candidate.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 10:19     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can’t sit for a federal trial when you haven’t even been charged!

You can show up to defend yourself when Colorado subpoenas you but he didn’t.


The state of Colorado didn’t produce charge for insurrection either.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 09:18     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:You can’t sit for a federal trial when you haven’t even been charged!

You can show up to defend yourself when Colorado subpoenas you but he didn’t.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 09:12     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

You can’t sit for a federal trial when you haven’t even been charged!
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 08:15     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


Not by the Colorado SC.


Colorado has no jurisdiction for an alleged crime in DC.

Colorado has jurisdiction over who appears on its state ballot, and has determined that Trump is not eligible.


They do not have jurisdiction for a finding of insurrection which needs to come first. If you don’t believe in due process for that finding, then prepare for border state courts to do the same to Biden with no second guessing. You can’t have it both ways.


Trump refuses to sit for his federal trial on this. He's a corrupt, criminal coward who knows he's guilty so he's playing the drag-it-out appeals game. Not that it matters in Colorado since conviction isn't required. It's a state's right issue as to who gets to appear on the ballot.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 05:59     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


Not by the Colorado SC.


Colorado has no jurisdiction for an alleged crime in DC.

Colorado has jurisdiction over who appears on its state ballot, and has determined that Trump is not eligible.


They do not have jurisdiction for a finding of insurrection which needs to come first. If you don’t believe in due process for that finding, then prepare for border state courts to do the same to Biden with no second guessing. You can’t have it both ways.


Trump is a national menace.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 03:15     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


Not by the Colorado SC.


Colorado has no jurisdiction for an alleged crime in DC.

Colorado has jurisdiction over who appears on its state ballot, and has determined that Trump is not eligible.


They do not have jurisdiction for a finding of insurrection which needs to come first. If you don’t believe in due process for that finding, then prepare for border state courts to do the same to Biden with no second guessing. You can’t have it both ways.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 03:05     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


Not by the Colorado SC.


Colorado has no jurisdiction for an alleged crime in DC.

Colorado has jurisdiction over who appears on its state ballot, and has determined that Trump is not eligible.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 02:38     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


People don’t remember it because you made it up.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/13/us/politics/trump-impeachment.html



Impeachment has two votes associated; one to convict and a second to bar from running in the future, or holding any federal office. The second requires only a majority, so if you lose the first and the Senate decides to take the second vote you are done, since the odds of losing that one are near 100%.

There's plenty of reason to believe Biden has committed potentially-impeachable offenses. Not just the shenanigans that allegedly involve bribery and Hunter either -- one can argue quite-cleanly that refusing to protect the nation from unbridled illegal immigration is impeachable as well. Remember that impeachment is a political, not a criminal process; that is, it doesn't have to involve a felony.

So what stops Florida and Texas, for example, from removing Biden from the ballot without him being impeached and removed first under the exact same set of standards? How about every single GOP Governor state doing the same thing? Nothing prohibits that if what Colorado did stands; it is the precise same thing -- the imposition of a punishment without due process, and just as in the case of the 14th Amendment there is such a punishment available in the event of impeachment.


There is actually no reason to believe Joe Biden has engaged in any treasonous acts. None. The rest of your post is drivel because it eminates from something that has no basis in reality.


The point is that a single (unelected) court can decide differently and no one could second guess that if this holds, including you.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 02:21     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


You are conflating two completely differnent things. Trump was impeached for his January 6 contributions by the House of Representatives. The impeachment then goes to the Senate for trial. But this is a congressional trial, not a judicial trial. In the Congressional trial, the only choices by the Senate are 2/3 majority voting to remove from office or not. But regardless of the outcome, that is only a Congressional trial for consideration of removal from office.

The trial for his insurrection has not gone to trial yet. This is what Jack Smith is currently trying to bring to trial, but Trump and his lawyers keep obstructing and delaying. Their goal is to delay this trial until after the November 2024 election. He has not been acquitted of that. He hasn't even been to trial due to all the legal maneuverings. In the most recent actions, Trump attempted to claim presidential immunity for his actions. The federal court rejected his claim of immunity and he appealed. In order to keep the trial on it's targeted March deadline, Jack Smith has asked SCOTUS to consider reviewing the presidential immunity claim and ruling on that, so that the trudge through the appellate court, then verdict, to then be appealed to the SCOTUS will not derail or delay the March target trial schedule. Trump is doing everything he and his lawyers possibly can to derail and delay the start of his trial.

But he has not gone on trial for insurrection yet.


Right. Because he hasn’t even been charged.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2023 02:19     Subject: Colorado case. To keep Trump off ballot

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay so when the Supreme Court reverses this because it violates due process are progs going to riot? It will be reversed


You don't know what you're talking about. The Supreme Court would have to upend a lot of due process law to accomplish that. Even if you regard the ability to seek office as a property or liberty right, usually all due process requires is notice, a meaningful opportunity to be heard, and a neutral decision-maker. He got all that in the five day trial where he was represented by counsel, presented evidence, and had his case decided by a member of the judiciary.


+1. Without getting into whether I agree, I expect this to get reversed, but it'll be on political question grounds, not due process.

+1 I’m sure it will be reversed because enough of them will want to reverse it. Curious about how they justify getting there, though.


I think it'll be stayed, but not reversed, on presumed innocence grounds because he hasn't been convicted yet.


Guilt, innocence, and presumption of innocence has nothing to do with it. This is not a criminal proceeding. How often does that have to get said before it sinks in?

If you're under 35, a court can still keep you off the ballot even if you're not convicted of being under 35. It's a question of fact for the court to determine; just like whether you've engaged in insurrection. Confederate officers were excluded from office even though they were never convicted of anything.


Confederate officers were part of an organized and defined insurrectionist entity. They had a uniform and got a paycheck. There was no plausible question of whether they were involved. Membership had its consequences as it were.

While Trump certainly committed insurrection it was a different sort of insurrection. The massive delay in both his charges and his proceedings also has consequences unfortunately. But more importantly it provides an excuse.

I think it is clear that a President is eligible under the clause so they aren't going to overturn it but they'll throw it out on a technicality (lack of conviction).


Trump was acquitted on the insurrection charge. When are people going to remember this?


Not by the Colorado SC.


Colorado has no jurisdiction for an alleged crime in DC.