Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just can’t get my head around the fact that DC is using the Saratoga for housing homeless people. MANY middle class Ward 3 residents would love to be able to afford to live in a building that nice. What about the rest of us?

^ That was my point above. The working poor, people who are invested, people who try their best, are essentially invisible. Fall out and be a mess, and THEN you'll get support.

Heartily agree, but the "you" is curiously conditional.

The wait list for Section 8 is officially closed and decades long. These vouchers are being offered to people in encampments, among others, many of whom have no longstanding ties to DC and who may come from lower cost of living areas, drawn by the tolerance for open air drug scenes and how vouchers are implemented here. I hesitate to speculate how they not only vaulted to the front of the line ahead of lifelong DC residents, but get private buildings, not poorly managed and maintained DC properties on offer.

Someone posted on the CP listserve about a young woman they met who was moving into a building in Cathedral Heights with a voucher. She said she might get a job at Giant and go back to school. Instead she was arrested for prostitution weeks later and "associates" were openly dealing near the building. The shelter for women and children on Idaho has also been a draw of men engaged in criminal and sometimes violent behavior.

As people in 12 step programs are wont to say, a "geographic "cure fixes nothing. HF is a philosophy designed to benefit developers, landlords and those who get kickbacks. Without providing any carrots or sticks to the recipients or requiring treatment or steps toward becoming self sufficient it seems to enable continued addiction. It just does not seem financially feasible over the long run, many of the voucher recipients appear quite young. Wouldn't progress in stability and bettering one's prospects for one's kids lead to better self esteem, stronger families and a more stable community?

I can see why these buildings draw dealers if they have a large concentration of people not only home all day, but idle. Was the same for Days Inn during covid when it was a homeless quarantine shelter, dealing nearby visibly ticked up. Often people who don't pay their portion of the rent are evicted in month 7 and just move to a different nearby building, they have no skin in the game, no consequences and often, no legitimate sources of income.

Some buildings have kids who don't attend school regularly. Despite CPS visits, nothing changes. It's really stressful for other residents who try to get help for the kids who may be left alone for days, who try to get help for people severely mentally ill, etc. It's not a great environment for regular families, even before the safety issues are factored in. And rents in these older buildings, often without a lot of amenities, are at all time highs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a shooting inside Connecticut Heights about 5 years ago. They shot two shots out the back window on ground level and another bullet went through the front door.

That's the building right by Murch, right? https://www.equityapartments.com/washington-dc/van-ness/connecticut-heights-apartments Used to have a lot of families, then heard it was going downhill.

Rental buildings in Van Ness and Chevy Chase used to be a way for families who could not afford a house, for divorced moms, etc,. to get in bounds for good elementaries that fed to Deal. That the city has moved in so many violent and disruptive people, or those who associate with such people, is quite sad. There are so many people waiting for vouchers, if the program allowed better screening and revoking of vouchers for violence, drug use or dealing, threats, etc., it all could have gone so differently. It's hard to understand.

I totally did this in NW DC as a single, car-less parent. Was able to get my graduate degree, have my child in a decent school, find a great job, community, walkable etc. Today I am thriving. I agree, what about the working poor/rising middle class? So forgotten in this town. I would have been appalled to live with a high concentration of unsupervised, under monitored/serviced violent or disruptive people. There is no way I would have exposed my child OR myself to that, but what would the alternative have been? And no, I didn't demand multi unit housing to buy--I just rented an affordable, safe apartment for a few years. For far less than the illegal voucher amounts the city is doling out! Was great. If all the hardworking people flee these schools and neighborhood won't be a draw for ANYONE. That's what I don't understand about how DC government goes about things. "Let's cram a bunch of violent people in Ward 3 and leave them unsupervised. Deal for all or whatever. There are magic sprinkles in NW DC that will just make it all better. Equity!" What they don't recognize, is there is no Deal, Wilson, Eaton or cute walkable clean safe neighborhoods with functioning grovery stores and partks without a bunch of committed stakeholders who help it to be excellent. if they all don't feel safe and leave, then what?????? Ugh. So depressing.

yes, this is why I’ll be taking myself and my taxable income to Bethesda instead of NW DC. Even though rent is somewhat higher in Bethesda and I vastly prefer DC I’m not willing to live in a dangerous building with my kid.

Alternatives would be BCC cluster, I suppose for schools and walkability. But nothing nearly as affordable as Chevy Chase DC and Van Ness were in 2019 before vouchers pushed up rents. For those without cars, Chevy Chase, Cathedral Heights and Van Ness all have grocery stores + feeders to good middle and high school. That has been hard to find with walkability in DC, same is true for MoCo. Older buildings in DC are rent stabilized and often include all utilities. Losing these units for years as they literally were permanently taken out of rent stabilization program due to voucher loophole was infuriating. Parents, elderly and government workers depended on this housing. Now, those left have to choose between dangerous people having keys to the building or having rent go up tremendously. And new builds in Logan and at The Wharf have had their own drug related crime issues. Older buildings, even rented condos, accept vouchers. Feels like those who committed to stay in DC, especially with kids and without super high incomes, were the chumps.

Anonymous wrote:I just can’t get my head around the fact that DC is using the Saratoga for housing homeless people. MANY middle class Ward 3 residents would love to be able to afford to live in a building that nice. What about the rest of us?

Maybe fewer would like to live in The Saratoga these days. That a man with decades of violent felonies and dv would have an electronic key, despite not being a resident, is chilling. That he shot someone just outside at 3 on a Saturday afternoon is becoming the new normal.

Those who do not want to move especially with current interest rates, frame this as a "renters problem." Without stakeholders with clout and large numbers of nearby residents, both renters and homeowners, there is no chance of influencing DC policy. A lot of voucher holders move out of Saratoga, Brandywine and Connecticut House fairly quickly I'm told, they know better than to minimize the safety issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Black and the victim both appear to live EOTP. Concerningly Black or S2 used a key card to enter The Saratoga just before the shooting although neither is believed to live there. That gets into the door control issue from the WP article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/08/08/dc-paid-housing-chronic-homelessness/

The victim was on life support for 48 hours, needed surgery and was in the hospital 9 days. Shame Black can't be made to repay those costs from funds earned in prison. He was in violation of conditions of a plea deal from April 2023, felon in possession case, so hopefully will be off the streets for a while. It sounds as though there are witnesses and video. It also reads as though Black has associates in The Brandywine, a neighbor mentioned a large LE presence there after the shooting too. It is surreal that they then left across Forest Hills playground.

So he didn't live in the area, yet had key card access to The Saratoga and connections to The Brandywine. This really highlights the problem of how the voucher program can bring criminals to a neighborhood, even if you're able to fully completely screen and support the individual applicant (which the city isn't, at this point). Many of these people are coming from places where they're surrounded by criminal acquaintances, and giving them unsupervised access to apartments often means the acquaintances come along as well. The Washington Post article you linked to does a great job of covering this, I suggest everyone read it.

Frumin saying that we'll see whether or not the criminals are voucher recipients (when many of them aren't official recipients, but are tagging along with the recipients) or suggesting the solution is more services to the individual (which are often ignored, and have no connection to criminal friends) really demonstrates how little thought he's given this issue. I get that people like him in upper NW single-family homes, or the 20-year old transplants with no kids moving into hip neighborhoods, don't have any clue about the working class families that have traditionally lived in many of these apartments. So they can virtue signal about vouchers while they put into place a program that chases these families out.

It’s been incredible to see how tone deaf Frumin is and it’s clear he will not moderate his position on vouchers. We’re at the point when public shaming might be the only tactic left. Judging from some of the parents who spoke up at the recent meetings we may already be there.

I have written him re this very issue and he has not even deigned to respond. Incredibly frustrating. I guess he is waiting for this to blow over, but sorry we are past the tipping point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Black and the victim both appear to live EOTP. Concerningly Black or S2 used a key card to enter The Saratoga just before the shooting although neither is believed to live there. That gets into the door control issue from the WP article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/08/08/dc-paid-housing-chronic-homelessness/

The victim was on life support for 48 hours, needed surgery and was in the hospital 9 days. Shame Black can't be made to repay those costs from funds earned in prison. He was in violation of conditions of a plea deal from April 2023, felon in possession case, so hopefully will be off the streets for a while. It sounds as though there are witnesses and video. It also reads as though Black has associates in The Brandywine, a neighbor mentioned a large LE presence there after the shooting too. It is surreal that they then left across Forest Hills playground.

So he didn't live in the area, yet had key card access to The Saratoga and connections to The Brandywine. This really highlights the problem of how the voucher program can bring criminals to a neighborhood, even if you're able to fully completely screen and support the individual applicant (which the city isn't, at this point). Many of these people are coming from places where they're surrounded by criminal acquaintances, and giving them unsupervised access to apartments often means the acquaintances come along as well. The Washington Post article you linked to does a great job of covering this, I suggest everyone read it.

Frumin saying that we'll see whether or not the criminals are voucher recipients (when many of them aren't official recipients, but are tagging along with the recipients) or suggesting the solution is more services to the individual (which are often ignored, and have no connection to criminal friends) really demonstrates how little thought he's given this issue. I get that people like him in upper NW single-family homes, or the 20-year old transplants with no kids moving into hip neighborhoods, don't have any clue about the working class families that have traditionally lived in many of these apartments. So they can virtue signal about vouchers while they put into place a program that chases these families out.

It’s been incredible to see how tone deaf Frumin is and it’s clear he will not moderate his position on vouchers. We’re at the point when public shaming might be the only tactic left. Judging from some of the parents who spoke up at the recent meetings we may already be there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a shooting inside Connecticut Heights about 5 years ago. They shot two shots out the back window on ground level and another bullet went through the front door.

That's the building right by Murch, right? https://www.equityapartments.com/washington-dc/van-ness/connecticut-heights-apartments Used to have a lot of families, then heard it was going downhill.

Rental buildings in Van Ness and Chevy Chase used to be a way for families who could not afford a house, for divorced moms, etc,. to get in bounds for good elementaries that fed to Deal. That the city has moved in so many violent and disruptive people, or those who associate with such people, is quite sad. There are so many people waiting for vouchers, if the program allowed better screening and revoking of vouchers for violence, drug use or dealing, threats, etc., it all could have gone so differently. It's hard to understand.

I totally did this in NW DC as a single, car-less parent. Was able to get my graduate degree, have my child in a decent school, find a great job, community, walkable etc. Today I am thriving. I agree, what about the working poor/rising middle class? So forgotten in this town. I would have been appalled to live with a high concentration of unsupervised, under monitored/serviced violent or disruptive people. There is no way I would have exposed my child OR myself to that, but what would the alternative have been? And no, I didn't demand multi unit housing to buy--I just rented an affordable, safe apartment for a few years. For far less than the illegal voucher amounts the city is doling out! Was great. If all the hardworking people flee these schools and neighborhood won't be a draw for ANYONE. That's what I don't understand about how DC government goes about things. "Let's cram a bunch of violent people in Ward 3 and leave them unsupervised. Deal for all or whatever. There are magic sprinkles in NW DC that will just make it all better. Equity!" What they don't recognize, is there is no Deal, Wilson, Eaton or cute walkable clean safe neighborhoods with functioning grovery stores and partks without a bunch of committed stakeholders who help it to be excellent. if they all don't feel safe and leave, then what?????? Ugh. So depressing.

yes, this is why I’ll be taking myself and my taxable income to Bethesda instead of NW DC. Even though rent is somewhat higher in Bethesda and I vastly prefer DC I’m not willing to live in a dangerous building with my kid.

Anonymous wrote:
Black and the victim both appear to live EOTP. Concerningly Black or S2 used a key card to enter The Saratoga just before the shooting although neither is believed to live there. That gets into the door control issue from the WP article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/08/08/dc-paid-housing-chronic-homelessness/

The victim was on life support for 48 hours, needed surgery and was in the hospital 9 days. Shame Black can't be made to repay those costs from funds earned in prison. He was in violation of conditions of a plea deal from April 2023, felon in possession case, so hopefully will be off the streets for a while. It sounds as though there are witnesses and video. It also reads as though Black has associates in The Brandywine, a neighbor mentioned a large LE presence there after the shooting too. It is surreal that they then left across Forest Hills playground.

So he didn't live in the area, yet had key card access to The Saratoga and connections to The Brandywine. This really highlights the problem of how the voucher program can bring criminals to a neighborhood, even if you're able to fully completely screen and support the individual applicant (which the city isn't, at this point). Many of these people are coming from places where they're surrounded by criminal acquaintances, and giving them unsupervised access to apartments often means the acquaintances come along as well. The Washington Post article you linked to does a great job of covering this, I suggest everyone read it.

Frumin saying that we'll see whether or not the criminals are voucher recipients (when many of them aren't official recipients, but are tagging along with the recipients) or suggesting the solution is more services to the individual (which are often ignored, and have no connection to criminal friends) really demonstrates how little thought he's given this issue. I get that people like him in upper NW single-family homes, or the 20-year old transplants with no kids moving into hip neighborhoods, don't have any clue about the working class families that have traditionally lived in many of these apartments. So they can virtue signal about vouchers while they put into place a program that chases these families out.

Anonymous wrote:I just can’t get my head around the fact that DC is using the Saratoga for housing homeless people. MANY middle class Ward 3 residents would love to be able to afford to live in a building that nice. What about the rest of us?

^ That was my point above. The working poor, people who are invested, people who try their best, are essentially invisible. Fall out and be a mess, and THEN you'll get support.

I just can’t get my head around the fact that DC is using the Saratoga for housing homeless people. MANY middle class Ward 3 residents would love to be able to afford to live in a building that nice. What about the rest of us?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a shooting inside Connecticut Heights about 5 years ago. They shot two shots out the back window on ground level and another bullet went through the front door.

That's the building right by Murch, right? https://www.equityapartments.com/washington-dc/van-ness/connecticut-heights-apartments Used to have a lot of families, then heard it was going downhill.

Rental buildings in Van Ness and Chevy Chase used to be a way for families who could not afford a house, for divorced moms, etc,. to get in bounds for good elementaries that fed to Deal. That the city has moved in so many violent and disruptive people, or those who associate with such people, is quite sad. There are so many people waiting for vouchers, if the program allowed better screening and revoking of vouchers for violence, drug use or dealing, threats, etc., it all could have gone so differently. It's hard to understand.

I totally did this in NW DC as a single, car-less parent. Was able to get my graduate degree, have my child in a decent school, find a great job, community, walkable etc. Today I am thriving. I agree, what about the working poor/rising middle class? So forgotten in this town. I would have been appalled to live with a high concentration of unsupervised, under monitored/serviced violent or disruptive people. There is no way I would have exposed my child OR myself to that, but what would the alternative have been? And no, I didn't demand multi unit housing to buy--I just rented an affordable, safe apartment for a few years. For far less than the illegal voucher amounts the city is doling out! Was great. If all the hardworking people flee these schools and neighborhood won't be a draw for ANYONE. That's what I don't understand about how DC government goes about things. "Let's cram a bunch of violent people in Ward 3 and leave them unsupervised. Deal for all or whatever. There are magic sprinkles in NW DC that will just make it all better. Equity!" What they don't recognize, is there is no Deal, Wilson, Eaton or cute walkable clean safe neighborhoods with functioning grovery stores and partks without a bunch of committed stakeholders who help it to be excellent. if they all don't feel safe and leave, then what?????? Ugh. So depressing.

Anonymous wrote:There was a shooting inside Connecticut Heights about 5 years ago. They shot two shots out the back window on ground level and another bullet went through the front door.

That's the building right by Murch, right? https://www.equityapartments.com/washington-dc/van-ness/connecticut-heights-apartments Used to have a lot of families, then heard it was going downhill.

Rental buildings in Van Ness and Chevy Chase used to be a way for families who could not afford a house, for divorced moms, etc,. to get in bounds for good elementaries that fed to Deal. That the city has moved in so many violent and disruptive people, or those who associate with such people, is quite sad. There are so many people waiting for vouchers, if the program allowed better screening and revoking of vouchers for violence, drug use or dealing, threats, etc., it all could have gone so differently. It's hard to understand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eric Goulet also ran for W3 CM, he would have been a much better pick, imo.

Yep.

Lol. Goulet would have been more of a disaster than Frumin.

We need an adult. Goulet has proven repeatedly that he is not one.

Both are unoriginal clowns, albeit from different circuses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eric Goulet also ran for W3 CM, he would have been a much better pick, imo.

Yep.

Lol. Goulet would have been more of a disaster than Frumin.

We need an adult. Goulet has proven repeatedly that he is not one.

Monte! I hope she runs again.

Super sweet lady. Somehow to the left of Goulet despite being a Republican months before running.

There was a shooting inside Connecticut Heights about 5 years ago. They shot two shots out the back window on ground level and another bullet went through the front door.

There was a shooting inside Connecticut Heights about 5 years ago. They shot two shots out the back window on ground level and another bullet went through the front door.