My kid is a strong student but didn't care about the so-called top 20 schools, he wanted a place where his major was strong and there was a great student experience, he had 2 safeties he would be delighted to attend and a bunch of targets that were lovely. He added 2 reaches in the end but wasn't fixated on them. It made the process much smoother given he didn't focus at all on the highly rejective schools and used scoir to ensure his targets were were really targets for his HS. As a result, he got in nearly everywhere and is happy with results!

Aim realistically and don't hype up the overhyped schools, and this process can be fun not depressing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that we’re done, I’m surprised by how personally I’m taking this (awful, terrible, no good) process. My really great kid got rejected from every reach (that are reaches for everyone - he really and truly had the lottery ticket for all of them). I’m mad at myself for not grooming him more and getting him (or getting him to do) all the fake crap that other kids seem to do to for the sole purpose of getting into college. I’m mad that AOs don’t see through the bullshit and keep falling for it. and my feelings aren’t just for my kid, really. I’m sad for all the sincere, genuine kids who are KIDS and do the stuff that needs to be done because it needs to be done (student council, school clubs, tutoring, working real jobs) and get hosed.

I feel somewhat the opposite. Ive always known “who gets in and why”. It was never about any school clubs.

There are kids at my kids schools shooting daggers at mine bc my kid picked a niche humanities major that matches EC list, national ranking award; there is no evidence or hint of CS or robotics or anything anywhere bc my kid didn’t do that in high school school. Truly a humanities kid and app reads that way. Got into 3 T20 & WL 1 Ivy. Test optional.

The kid shooting daggers applied as language major and had all the CS stuff and robotics and quiz bowl all over ECs along with that state dept language program(s). Leadership in several big school clubs. Nearly perfect stats/scores. Brilliant kid but looked scattered I’m sure it looked liked a back door to CS. The application didn’t hang well and have heard tone of essays a bit righteous and activist (active in pro-Gaza demonstrations). Didn’t get into any ivies. Going to OOS flagship.

You have to market yourself and know what to omit and what to highlight.

+1
And there is nothing wrong about marketing oneself. In fact, it is a core life skill. AOs certainly seem to believe so.

We should not have kids from 12+ having to "market themselves". We need to let them be kids, explore interests and try different things (if they desire) in HS. And no, most kids should not be taking 10-14APs. Yes it's a core life skill, but doing so in your career (taking on projects that will help you get promoted or attending conferences to network and get a new job at different company) is very different than developing from age 12+ and choosing courses and activities solely to get into college. They are kids and should be allowed to choose

My kid did what they love. Didn't market themself or think about college apps until summer before senior year. Then we thought about how to "package" kid.
It worked.
You don't need to do stuff from 12+.
But the major is the key. Very very important.

Package = Market

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that we’re done, I’m surprised by how personally I’m taking this (awful, terrible, no good) process. My really great kid got rejected from every reach (that are reaches for everyone - he really and truly had the lottery ticket for all of them). I’m mad at myself for not grooming him more and getting him (or getting him to do) all the fake crap that other kids seem to do to for the sole purpose of getting into college. I’m mad that AOs don’t see through the bullshit and keep falling for it. and my feelings aren’t just for my kid, really. I’m sad for all the sincere, genuine kids who are KIDS and do the stuff that needs to be done because it needs to be done (student council, school clubs, tutoring, working real jobs) and get hosed.

I feel somewhat the opposite. Ive always known “who gets in and why”. It was never about any school clubs.

There are kids at my kids schools shooting daggers at mine bc my kid picked a niche humanities major that matches EC list, national ranking award; there is no evidence or hint of CS or robotics or anything anywhere bc my kid didn’t do that in high school school. Truly a humanities kid and app reads that way. Got into 3 T20 & WL 1 Ivy. Test optional.

The kid shooting daggers applied as language major and had all the CS stuff and robotics and quiz bowl all over ECs along with that state dept language program(s). Leadership in several big school clubs. Nearly perfect stats/scores. Brilliant kid but looked scattered I’m sure it looked liked a back door to CS. The application didn’t hang well and have heard tone of essays a bit righteous and activist (active in pro-Gaza demonstrations). Didn’t get into any ivies. Going to OOS flagship.

You have to market yourself and know what to omit and what to highlight.

+1
And there is nothing wrong about marketing oneself. In fact, it is a core life skill. AOs certainly seem to believe so.

We should not have kids from 12+ having to "market themselves". We need to let them be kids, explore interests and try different things (if they desire) in HS. And no, most kids should not be taking 10-14APs. Yes it's a core life skill, but doing so in your career (taking on projects that will help you get promoted or attending conferences to network and get a new job at different company) is very different than developing from age 12+ and choosing courses and activities solely to get into college. They are kids and should be allowed to choose

My kid did what they love. Didn't market themself or think about college apps until summer before senior year. Then we thought about how to "package" kid.
It worked.
You don't need to do stuff from 12+.
But the major is the key. Very very important.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that we’re done, I’m surprised by how personally I’m taking this (awful, terrible, no good) process. My really great kid got rejected from every reach (that are reaches for everyone - he really and truly had the lottery ticket for all of them). I’m mad at myself for not grooming him more and getting him (or getting him to do) all the fake crap that other kids seem to do to for the sole purpose of getting into college. I’m mad that AOs don’t see through the bullshit and keep falling for it. and my feelings aren’t just for my kid, really. I’m sad for all the sincere, genuine kids who are KIDS and do the stuff that needs to be done because it needs to be done (student council, school clubs, tutoring, working real jobs) and get hosed.

I feel somewhat the opposite. Ive always known “who gets in and why”. It was never about any school clubs.

There are kids at my kids schools shooting daggers at mine bc my kid picked a niche humanities major that matches EC list, national ranking award; there is no evidence or hint of CS or robotics or anything anywhere bc my kid didn’t do that in high school school. Truly a humanities kid and app reads that way. Got into 3 T20 & WL 1 Ivy. Test optional.

The kid shooting daggers applied as language major and had all the CS stuff and robotics and quiz bowl all over ECs along with that state dept language program(s). Leadership in several big school clubs. Nearly perfect stats/scores. Brilliant kid but looked scattered I’m sure it looked liked a back door to CS. The application didn’t hang well and have heard tone of essays a bit righteous and activist (active in pro-Gaza demonstrations). Didn’t get into any ivies. Going to OOS flagship.

You have to market yourself and know what to omit and what to highlight.

+1
And there is nothing wrong about marketing oneself. In fact, it is a core life skill. AOs certainly seem to believe so.

We should not have kids from 12+ having to "market themselves". We need to let them be kids, explore interests and try different things (if they desire) in HS. And no, most kids should not be taking 10-14APs. Yes it's a core life skill, but doing so in your career (taking on projects that will help you get promoted or attending conferences to network and get a new job at different company) is very different than developing from age 12+ and choosing courses and activities solely to get into college. They are kids and should be allowed to choose

Agreed! But then you must agree that it really is ok to shoot for and apply to schools other than the T25. The kids who get in to the top of top schools have the "it" factor and are able to put together their applications that genuinely show their narrative. That is what is meant by "marketing".

Anonymous wrote:The idea of perfect fit is utter BS...most kids could be happy at many different places - parents are just putting more pressure on kids to subscribe to some concept of the perfect fit when its not realistic.

No one is seeking perfection fit. I think wise parents are advising not to let rank (ie, prestige) overshadow fit.

Anonymous wrote:Two things:

1. Emphasis on prestige - I knew it was bad but good lord I can't imagine what we are doing to our kids from a stress level perspective.
2. Fixation on employable majors - the majority of 18yo kids don't really know what they want to do for the rest of their lives - be open to allowing them to explore vs pushing for some "guaranteed" money making major. If there is an obvious intersection then great but don't force your kid into a major.

DCUM skews in this direction, but not healthy parents with sound values.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I did not understand just how much benefit kids who are ALDC get. It is shocking, like a whole different process entirely.

What's ALDC?

Abby Lee Dance Company

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that we’re done, I’m surprised by how personally I’m taking this (awful, terrible, no good) process. My really great kid got rejected from every reach (that are reaches for everyone - he really and truly had the lottery ticket for all of them). I’m mad at myself for not grooming him more and getting him (or getting him to do) all the fake crap that other kids seem to do to for the sole purpose of getting into college. I’m mad that AOs don’t see through the bullshit and keep falling for it. and my feelings aren’t just for my kid, really. I’m sad for all the sincere, genuine kids who are KIDS and do the stuff that needs to be done because it needs to be done (student council, school clubs, tutoring, working real jobs) and get hosed.

I have a lot of sympathy for you (and wonder if I'll feel this way next year: I have a junior). It's tough. At the same time, dh and I are trying hard to keep reiterating to our kid that it truly doesn't matter where you go. My evidence for this is that we both went to Ivies and our lives are normal. We make less than most people. Neither of us had an amazing college experience, and neither of us have worked in fields where it matters where we went. The most successful kids from my high school class went to less selective undergrad schools and did exceptionally well. In the end it is about what you do, not where you go.

+1000

"In the end it is about what you do, not where you go."
So true, and more people need to realize it.
That is why it's so important to spend time finding the right Targets and Safeties. And choosing what I call "target but almost a Safety". Don't make all your targets be 22% acceptance rate and your kid is at 35-40% stats. Those are still "almost a reach". You need a few in the 30%+ acceptance rate where your kid is 60-70%+ for stats. And then show demonstrated interest (if the school considers it). If interviews matter, make sure to do one (they did at my kid's ultimate school ranked in the 30-40s). And most importantly find a safety or two that your kid really likes and would be excited to attend. And yes, every kid can find one or two---even with very high stats. It's all in how you help them navigate this, don't let them think "life is over if I don't get into a T20". Help them realize that they are not really "any better than anyone else"--I'd guess 75%+ of the applicants at the T25s are all "qualified and would make excellent member of the freshman classes" but 90% will get rejected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that we’re done, I’m surprised by how personally I’m taking this (awful, terrible, no good) process. My really great kid got rejected from every reach (that are reaches for everyone - he really and truly had the lottery ticket for all of them). I’m mad at myself for not grooming him more and getting him (or getting him to do) all the fake crap that other kids seem to do to for the sole purpose of getting into college. I’m mad that AOs don’t see through the bullshit and keep falling for it. and my feelings aren’t just for my kid, really. I’m sad for all the sincere, genuine kids who are KIDS and do the stuff that needs to be done because it needs to be done (student council, school clubs, tutoring, working real jobs) and get hosed.

I have a lot of sympathy for you (and wonder if I'll feel this way next year: I have a junior). It's tough. At the same time, dh and I are trying hard to keep reiterating to our kid that it truly doesn't matter where you go. My evidence for this is that we both went to Ivies and our lives are normal. We make less than most people. Neither of us had an amazing college experience, and neither of us have worked in fields where it matters where we went. The most successful kids from my high school class went to less selective undergrad schools and did exceptionally well. In the end it is about what you do, not where you go.

Well said and I agree. My wife and I also both went to ivies and our college experience was mediocre and we are doing fine, but not exceptionally well now. We keep telling our kid where he goes to college is but a just a short stop on the marathon of life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that we’re done, I’m surprised by how personally I’m taking this (awful, terrible, no good) process. My really great kid got rejected from every reach (that are reaches for everyone - he really and truly had the lottery ticket for all of them). I’m mad at myself for not grooming him more and getting him (or getting him to do) all the fake crap that other kids seem to do to for the sole purpose of getting into college. I’m mad that AOs don’t see through the bullshit and keep falling for it. and my feelings aren’t just for my kid, really. I’m sad for all the sincere, genuine kids who are KIDS and do the stuff that needs to be done because it needs to be done (student council, school clubs, tutoring, working real jobs) and get hosed.

I feel somewhat the opposite. Ive always known “who gets in and why”. It was never about any school clubs.

There are kids at my kids schools shooting daggers at mine bc my kid picked a niche humanities major that matches EC list, national ranking award; there is no evidence or hint of CS or robotics or anything anywhere bc my kid didn’t do that in high school school. Truly a humanities kid and app reads that way. Got into 3 T20 & WL 1 Ivy. Test optional.

The kid shooting daggers applied as language major and had all the CS stuff and robotics and quiz bowl all over ECs along with that state dept language program(s). Leadership in several big school clubs. Nearly perfect stats/scores. Brilliant kid but looked scattered I’m sure it looked liked a back door to CS. The application didn’t hang well and have heard tone of essays a bit righteous and activist (active in pro-Gaza demonstrations). Didn’t get into any ivies. Going to OOS flagship.

You have to market yourself and know what to omit and what to highlight.

+1
And there is nothing wrong about marketing oneself. In fact, it is a core life skill. AOs certainly seem to believe so.

We should not have kids from 12+ having to "market themselves". We need to let them be kids, explore interests and try different things (if they desire) in HS. And no, most kids should not be taking 10-14APs. Yes it's a core life skill, but doing so in your career (taking on projects that will help you get promoted or attending conferences to network and get a new job at different company) is very different than developing from age 12+ and choosing courses and activities solely to get into college. They are kids and should be allowed to choose

Anonymous wrote:Now that we’re done, I’m surprised by how personally I’m taking this (awful, terrible, no good) process. My really great kid got rejected from every reach (that are reaches for everyone - he really and truly had the lottery ticket for all of them). I’m mad at myself for not grooming him more and getting him (or getting him to do) all the fake crap that other kids seem to do to for the sole purpose of getting into college. I’m mad that AOs don’t see through the bullshit and keep falling for it. and my feelings aren’t just for my kid, really. I’m sad for all the sincere, genuine kids who are KIDS and do the stuff that needs to be done because it needs to be done (student council, school clubs, tutoring, working real jobs) and get hosed.

Each school is individual, and yes if applying to 10 Top 20 schools all with single digit acceptance rates, you have a 90%+ chance of rejection at each of them. Yes you could have attempted to curate a better "resume" but in reality your kid most likely enjoyed HS more and is genuine and will thrive at whatever school ranked 25+ they choose.

Anonymous wrote:This is cliched by now but just how many high stats (1550+, 10+ AP’s, all A’s highest rigor) kids with demonstrated extracurricular involvement are turned away. Not even waitlisted but rejected outright .I understand that no college wants to fill its class with so-called robots, but I have a hard time believe that there isn’t something that these kids bring to the table. (And no, my kid doesn’t fit this high stats profile, so this isn’t personal)

They do "bring something to the table. But it's simple math.

Harvard had over 57K apply. They accepted 1968. Of those 57K, I'm going to guestimate that 30-40K+ are all "qualified students that Harvard would happily accept". But they only want 1600-1800 students in their freshman class. See the math issue? Factually, they will be rejecting many many (10s of thousands) of highly qualified applicants.
Also, Harvard and many other schools smartly realize that a 1550/10+ AP, 4.0UW student is not any "smarter" than a 1500/8AP+/3.9UW student---both will excel at Harvard, so they look beyond that for major, EC, what the student brings to the freshman class. Your error in thinking is that 1550+ is actually different than 1500+

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I did not understand just how much benefit kids who are ALDC get. It is shocking, like a whole different process entirely.

What's ALDC?

Athlete
Legacy
Dean’s list (donor; VIP)
Children of faculty

The one that was really surprising to me was how different it is for child of faculty. I guess it makes sense that professors/administrators protect their own but wow were those kids on a different track.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that we’re done, I’m surprised by how personally I’m taking this (awful, terrible, no good) process. My really great kid got rejected from every reach (that are reaches for everyone - he really and truly had the lottery ticket for all of them). I’m mad at myself for not grooming him more and getting him (or getting him to do) all the fake crap that other kids seem to do to for the sole purpose of getting into college. I’m mad that AOs don’t see through the bullshit and keep falling for it. and my feelings aren’t just for my kid, really. I’m sad for all the sincere, genuine kids who are KIDS and do the stuff that needs to be done because it needs to be done (student council, school clubs, tutoring, working real jobs) and get hosed.

I have a lot of sympathy for you (and wonder if I'll feel this way next year: I have a junior). It's tough. At the same time, dh and I are trying hard to keep reiterating to our kid that it truly doesn't matter where you go. My evidence for this is that we both went to Ivies and our lives are normal. We make less than most people. Neither of us had an amazing college experience, and neither of us have worked in fields where it matters where we went. The most successful kids from my high school class went to less selective undergrad schools and did exceptionally well. In the end it is about what you do, not where you go.

It's NOT all about the Ivies guys.

Yes, exclusive but only 8 schools.

Get a grip.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What surprised me the most is how different and strange Stanford's acceptance criteria are. The kids from DD's school who got into Stanford today are mediocre in every way and didn't get into any good school prior to today (public or private).

Whoa? Really???

Do not fall for this. OP doesn't know these kids "in every way".