Anonymous wrote:Op here. I haven’t been on in a few days. Dh got back from his trip, I had therapy, and I’ve obviously been busy solo with my dd for the week. I’ve been trying really hard to dwell on the positive and give him the benefit of the doubt. We had our normal day schedule today. I spent the morning doing things that made me feel good. Went to a Zumba class, went thrift store shopping etc. I had plans to take dd to a very cool
Playground far from our house and to make a nice outing of it. I asked dh if he wanted to join to make it a family outing. He said he wanted to but was too tired from his trip. He took dd to play in the sandbox at our neighborhood playground this morning. Looks like she had a good time, bc there is a pile of sand from her shoes that dh dumped out by the front door. I
Like an actual small pile of sand. I cheerfully asked dh this afternoon what that was about. He said dd’s shoes were full of sand and he hadn’t gotten around to vacuuming it up yet. I cheerfully said ok, cool.

Dh has spent the evening watching boxing and basketball. The pile of sand is still there.
(No this isn’t me being petty about sand)
It’s a microcosm. A part of me wants to clean it up (martyr?) just to be done with it already.
A part of me says, hell no! He’s an able bodied adult in this home. Why should I clean up a mess he made?
Another part of me- that incessant drum beat- is saying…this is never going to change. If I ask him to clean it up, he will accuse me of being a nag. I know it’s not even on his radar to clean it. He’s just waiting for me to handle it.

We used to have a lot of fun. We used to be wildly madly into each other. As someone posted earlier, it’s hard to be that carefree easygoing girl I was at 21 when we met, when so much has changed. I miss the peace quiet and routine me and dd had while he was gone. I’m tired of walking on eggshells. Literally ruminating on whether it’s worth it to “disturb the peace” and mention that the sand again. I’d rather jsut clean it myself (martyr) than risk the blowback I’ll get from asking him to do it. That will fuel my resentful fire. Lather rinse repeat.

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. Things of note:
-I would never quit my job. For one, I like making my own money. I would never make myself financial dependent on a man. Also, I have carried the health benefits for our family for the last 6 years. And I don’t trust my husband in terms of job stability
-Guess what I also often do on my “sat am free time”…other than working out for an hour and maybe reading for 30min or so. Grocery shopping. Trader Joe’s. Amazon returns to the ups store. Target runs for earth day items for dd’s school. Aka things for my f-ing family that aren’t even on dh’s radar or he assumes/expects that I will handle. Because I always have.
- I didn’t throw a tantrum or yell in front of dd. I literally said: “excited to play with you all afternoon after your nap” I told my dh: “you got nap and lunch” it was my dh who said “me? Why would I do it?” And I said why wouldn’t you. What did I do after dd got up from her nap? Took her to the museum, had a wonderful day. What did dh do? Pack for his work trip, leave the house for a few hours, and didn’t see dd for the rest of the day. He left in the morning for a week long trip. And didn’t see dd after giving her lunch and putting her down for nap. Dd woke up asking where daddy was. I said he went on an airplane for work and will come back. “Why didn’t he kiss me goodnight?” Now talk to me about parental engagement and involvement.
- as he packed, I told dh I was sorry his feelings were hurt but that I needed to talk to him about what happened. His reply “I vented and I think I’m good now.” He has texted me from his work trip as if nothing happened. Sending pictures of meals at restaurants and telling me about the weather. Literally as if nothing happened.

I haven’t left bc I think custody wouid be a nightmare and the finances of two homes an even bigger one.

OP, you clearly LOATHE your husband. Everything you’ve said about him reeks of bitterness and dislike. I think you should stop complaining and just get a divorce

+1

DH didn’t think it was a big deal because it wasn’t a big deal. OP is a high maintenance drama queen who acts like spending time with her daughter is like scrubbing toilets.

DH didn’t want to spend that time with his daughter either after passing her off to his mom all morning. Yet you only bash the OP.

But OP was mad at what he didn't do on her time. He didn't even kiss her goodnight! It cuts both ways. She didn't tuck her kid in for nap either, or fix her lunch, or want to spend time before getting the daughter handed off on her time. The kid wants both her parents involved not just one or the other. Instead she has these two yahoos playing hot potato.

There’s a huge difference between lunch and a goodnight kiss. No one really loves to make lunch for their kid—we do it because we have to. But a goodnight kiss? I want to kiss my kids goodnight, and miss it terribly when I’m traveling. The fact that he doesn’t want to…well, it says something about his relationship to his child.

That's what I think about a mother who shoos her kid away and tells her she will see her after the nap. Poor kid to end up with these two parents. Peas in a pod.

But she has a parent who will make her lunch. Anyone can make a kid lunch. Lunch isn’t a kiss. Mom’s kiss isn’t the same as Dad’s kiss.

Oh stop it. Both people can be wrong here. Dad may be slightly more wrong but neither look good. And the kiss stuff is just ick. No need to go there.

I have no idea what you mean by the kiss stuff being “ick.” Are you reading something sexual into this? If so, you’re the pervert, not me. What a disgusting person you are.

Go on then weirdo, tell us why mom's kiss is better than dad's kiss?

If you actually read for comprehension, you would see that I said mom’s kiss and dad’s kiss aren’t the same. Like, you can’t just substitute one or the other—you need both. Whereas who TF cares who makes the tuna fish sandwich. It’s just a sandwich, it’s not a personal expression of love.

Disagree. At that age, time and proximity is what they want - those are acts of love. Choosing not to see your kid until 3pm+ each Saturday is not an act of love.

+100. That poor child.

Fast forward 30 years and OP will be wondering why her dear daughter never calls or visits

I do think OP is being too rigid but no one, NO ONE, would ever say this about a father who golfs every Saturday til 3.

I’m not rigid and, frankly, I do do more child rearing related labor (meals, cleanup, bathtimes, bedtimes etc). It’s tough because a lot of partners won’t carry their weight unless the other person is rigid and strict. It’s a lose lose where you pick up extra slack to maintain peace and present as a good wife and mom but at the expense of your own time or you set rigid expectations and get your free time but with the perception that you are controlling and uncooperative.

I agree with your point that these challenges are mainly dealt with by women and that there are lower expectations for dads. I hope things continue changing for the better!

You don’t “hope” things continue to change for the better. You, as a woman, STAND UP to the child’s father and insist he do his share. That’s how it changes, family by family, and the next generation sees that Dad sitting on his ass watching TV or plating videogames while mom does everything isn’t how the world is expected to work anymore.

+1

Nah, DH is not into the family life and not into his martyr wife. Dad won't be around much longer. OP did herself no favors in picking this guy and her kid no favors either. We cannot control other people. OP might have outsourced or incentivized him differently or a variety of other tactics but this marriage is toast. And the kid is going to be messed up, it's inevitable. Sidestepping power struggles was possible in a few different ways. OP is going to HATE paying him child support. He'll have a girlfriend soon who will provide childcare, if there is not one in the wings.

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. Things of note:
-I would never quit my job. For one, I like making my own money. I would never make myself financial dependent on a man. Also, I have carried the health benefits for our family for the last 6 years. And I don’t trust my husband in terms of job stability
-Guess what I also often do on my “sat am free time”…other than working out for an hour and maybe reading for 30min or so. Grocery shopping. Trader Joe’s. Amazon returns to the ups store. Target runs for earth day items for dd’s school. Aka things for my f-ing family that aren’t even on dh’s radar or he assumes/expects that I will handle. Because I always have.
- I didn’t throw a tantrum or yell in front of dd. I literally said: “excited to play with you all afternoon after your nap” I told my dh: “you got nap and lunch” it was my dh who said “me? Why would I do it?” And I said why wouldn’t you. What did I do after dd got up from her nap? Took her to the museum, had a wonderful day. What did dh do? Pack for his work trip, leave the house for a few hours, and didn’t see dd for the rest of the day. He left in the morning for a week long trip. And didn’t see dd after giving her lunch and putting her down for nap. Dd woke up asking where daddy was. I said he went on an airplane for work and will come back. “Why didn’t he kiss me goodnight?” Now talk to me about parental engagement and involvement.
- as he packed, I told dh I was sorry his feelings were hurt but that I needed to talk to him about what happened. His reply “I vented and I think I’m good now.” He has texted me from his work trip as if nothing happened. Sending pictures of meals at restaurants and telling me about the weather. Literally as if nothing happened.

I haven’t left bc I think custody wouid be a nightmare and the finances of two homes an even bigger one.

OP, you clearly LOATHE your husband. Everything you’ve said about him reeks of bitterness and dislike. I think you should stop complaining and just get a divorce

+1

DH didn’t think it was a big deal because it wasn’t a big deal. OP is a high maintenance drama queen who acts like spending time with her daughter is like scrubbing toilets.

DH didn’t want to spend that time with his daughter either after passing her off to his mom all morning. Yet you only bash the OP.

But OP was mad at what he didn't do on her time. He didn't even kiss her goodnight! It cuts both ways. She didn't tuck her kid in for nap either, or fix her lunch, or want to spend time before getting the daughter handed off on her time. The kid wants both her parents involved not just one or the other. Instead she has these two yahoos playing hot potato.

There’s a huge difference between lunch and a goodnight kiss. No one really loves to make lunch for their kid—we do it because we have to. But a goodnight kiss? I want to kiss my kids goodnight, and miss it terribly when I’m traveling. The fact that he doesn’t want to…well, it says something about his relationship to his child.

That's what I think about a mother who shoos her kid away and tells her she will see her after the nap. Poor kid to end up with these two parents. Peas in a pod.

But she has a parent who will make her lunch. Anyone can make a kid lunch. Lunch isn’t a kiss. Mom’s kiss isn’t the same as Dad’s kiss.

Oh stop it. Both people can be wrong here. Dad may be slightly more wrong but neither look good. And the kiss stuff is just ick. No need to go there.

I have no idea what you mean by the kiss stuff being “ick.” Are you reading something sexual into this? If so, you’re the pervert, not me. What a disgusting person you are.

Go on then weirdo, tell us why mom's kiss is better than dad's kiss?

If you actually read for comprehension, you would see that I said mom’s kiss and dad’s kiss aren’t the same. Like, you can’t just substitute one or the other—you need both. Whereas who TF cares who makes the tuna fish sandwich. It’s just a sandwich, it’s not a personal expression of love.

Disagree. At that age, time and proximity is what they want - those are acts of love. Choosing not to see your kid until 3pm+ each Saturday is not an act of love.

+100. That poor child.

Fast forward 30 years and OP will be wondering why her dear daughter never calls or visits

I do think OP is being too rigid but no one, NO ONE, would ever say this about a father who golfs every Saturday til 3.

I’m not rigid and, frankly, I do do more child rearing related labor (meals, cleanup, bathtimes, bedtimes etc). It’s tough because a lot of partners won’t carry their weight unless the other person is rigid and strict. It’s a lose lose where you pick up extra slack to maintain peace and present as a good wife and mom but at the expense of your own time or you set rigid expectations and get your free time but with the perception that you are controlling and uncooperative.

I agree with your point that these challenges are mainly dealt with by women and that there are lower expectations for dads. I hope things continue changing for the better!

You don’t “hope” things continue to change for the better. You, as a woman, STAND UP to the child’s father and insist he do his share. That’s how it changes, family by family, and the next generation sees that Dad sitting on his ass watching TV or plating videogames while mom does everything isn’t how the world is expected to work anymore.

+1

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. Things of note:
-I would never quit my job. For one, I like making my own money. I would never make myself financial dependent on a man. Also, I have carried the health benefits for our family for the last 6 years. And I don’t trust my husband in terms of job stability
-Guess what I also often do on my “sat am free time”…other than working out for an hour and maybe reading for 30min or so. Grocery shopping. Trader Joe’s. Amazon returns to the ups store. Target runs for earth day items for dd’s school. Aka things for my f-ing family that aren’t even on dh’s radar or he assumes/expects that I will handle. Because I always have.
- I didn’t throw a tantrum or yell in front of dd. I literally said: “excited to play with you all afternoon after your nap” I told my dh: “you got nap and lunch” it was my dh who said “me? Why would I do it?” And I said why wouldn’t you. What did I do after dd got up from her nap? Took her to the museum, had a wonderful day. What did dh do? Pack for his work trip, leave the house for a few hours, and didn’t see dd for the rest of the day. He left in the morning for a week long trip. And didn’t see dd after giving her lunch and putting her down for nap. Dd woke up asking where daddy was. I said he went on an airplane for work and will come back. “Why didn’t he kiss me goodnight?” Now talk to me about parental engagement and involvement.
- as he packed, I told dh I was sorry his feelings were hurt but that I needed to talk to him about what happened. His reply “I vented and I think I’m good now.” He has texted me from his work trip as if nothing happened. Sending pictures of meals at restaurants and telling me about the weather. Literally as if nothing happened.

I haven’t left bc I think custody wouid be a nightmare and the finances of two homes an even bigger one.

OP, you clearly LOATHE your husband. Everything you’ve said about him reeks of bitterness and dislike. I think you should stop complaining and just get a divorce

+1

DH didn’t think it was a big deal because it wasn’t a big deal. OP is a high maintenance drama queen who acts like spending time with her daughter is like scrubbing toilets.

DH didn’t want to spend that time with his daughter either after passing her off to his mom all morning. Yet you only bash the OP.

But OP was mad at what he didn't do on her time. He didn't even kiss her goodnight! It cuts both ways. She didn't tuck her kid in for nap either, or fix her lunch, or want to spend time before getting the daughter handed off on her time. The kid wants both her parents involved not just one or the other. Instead she has these two yahoos playing hot potato.

There’s a huge difference between lunch and a goodnight kiss. No one really loves to make lunch for their kid—we do it because we have to. But a goodnight kiss? I want to kiss my kids goodnight, and miss it terribly when I’m traveling. The fact that he doesn’t want to…well, it says something about his relationship to his child.

That's what I think about a mother who shoos her kid away and tells her she will see her after the nap. Poor kid to end up with these two parents. Peas in a pod.

But she has a parent who will make her lunch. Anyone can make a kid lunch. Lunch isn’t a kiss. Mom’s kiss isn’t the same as Dad’s kiss.

Oh stop it. Both people can be wrong here. Dad may be slightly more wrong but neither look good. And the kiss stuff is just ick. No need to go there.

I have no idea what you mean by the kiss stuff being “ick.” Are you reading something sexual into this? If so, you’re the pervert, not me. What a disgusting person you are.

Go on then weirdo, tell us why mom's kiss is better than dad's kiss?

If you actually read for comprehension, you would see that I said mom’s kiss and dad’s kiss aren’t the same. Like, you can’t just substitute one or the other—you need both. Whereas who TF cares who makes the tuna fish sandwich. It’s just a sandwich, it’s not a personal expression of love.

Disagree. At that age, time and proximity is what they want - those are acts of love. Choosing not to see your kid until 3pm+ each Saturday is not an act of love.

+100. That poor child.

Fast forward 30 years and OP will be wondering why her dear daughter never calls or visits

I do think OP is being too rigid but no one, NO ONE, would ever say this about a father who golfs every Saturday til 3.

I’m not rigid and, frankly, I do do more child rearing related labor (meals, cleanup, bathtimes, bedtimes etc). It’s tough because a lot of partners won’t carry their weight unless the other person is rigid and strict. It’s a lose lose where you pick up extra slack to maintain peace and present as a good wife and mom but at the expense of your own time or you set rigid expectations and get your free time but with the perception that you are controlling and uncooperative.

I agree with your point that these challenges are mainly dealt with by women and that there are lower expectations for dads. I hope things continue changing for the better!

You don’t “hope” things continue to change for the better. You, as a woman, STAND UP to the child’s father and insist he do his share. That’s how it changes, family by family, and the next generation sees that Dad sitting on his ass watching TV or plating videogames while mom does everything isn’t how the world is expected to work anymore.

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Anonymous wrote:No mention of anything they all do together, enjoy, look forward to.

It's so sad for the child.

No dance parties, pancakes with faces, watching cartoons, blowing bubbles mentioned, nothing silly or joyful. No movie nights with neighbors or picnics with friends from law school. Dad's on a screen and mom only does enrichment and goes to war with dad. BOTH using withdrawal from the kid to wind the other up. This is very sick. Both parents really suck. That child is doomed to attachment issues and no one even seems to care who is in her life. They are so determined to overtly or covertly stick it to one another and score points like it is moot court not a FAMILY.

True. OP at no point described pancakes with faces. Very concerning. Should we call cps?

Maybe. She might take my title as World's Okayest Mom.

Anonymous wrote:I've been with my husband 25 years and we've had a power struggle or two, and I'm sure if I wrote out all the details everyone would agree that it was mainly his fault and he was being shitty, entitled, etc. (It even culminated in him having an affair.) And kind of like you describe, I really didn't see it at first. We were teenagers when we met and I guess I just assumed we'd magically turn into mature grown-ups some day. Instead, we had a baby and he was going out four nights a week like nothing in our lives changed.

The silver lining of the affair was that it gave me cover to leave. He knew I wasn't going to stay with the status quo, so he could change, or we'd separate. Yadda yadda yadda (skipping over a lot of hard work and some intervening years) and today I'd say we have a really loving, positive, selfless relationship and family life. I can't work due to illness and he carries the entire financial load and a lot of the household load too, but we're good about identifying when we need to tag out and wanting each other to have that time. He is so appreciative of all the ways I do contribute to our family life (admittedly nowhere near what I'd wish in an ideal world) and so understanding of my limitations. And I hope I am the same way for him.

I'm sharing this story just to explain that I can relate but also . . . I can't. Because you really do seem to be addicted to the power struggle. I never wanted one and when I saw that I was in one, I took immediate action to get out. If the only relationship my husband can offer me is a toxic one, I'm out. Due to having children together and having made a commitment, I'm willing to give him a reasonable amount of time to recover from a screw up, but I'm not going to maintain a toxic cycle. You really seem to be doing that. You gloss over why you can't leave. You don't respond to any suggestions that you work on a genuine relationship with your husband. You seem to just want to cast him as the villain and you as the put-upon martyr. And friend, no one wants that for you. Yeah, it's addictive, and swallowing your ego can be hard (trust, I know), but you've got to do it, or you've got to bounce.

What if we all agree that your husband is the worst? Congratulations? You . . . win a shitty husband? Proving that he sucks isn't a solution. It isn't going to fill your heart with love or provide a calm environment for your daughter. You have to accept that it is what it is and then take ownership of your decision to stay or leave.

When you argue and win, your brain floods with different hormones: adrenaline and dopamine, which makes you feel good, dominant, even invincible. It’s a the feeling any of us would want to replicate. So the next time we’re in a tense situation, we fight again. We get addicted to being right.

If one person is getting high off his or her dominance, others are being drummed into submission, experiencing the fight, flight, freeze or appease response I described before, which diminishes their collaborative impulses.

Luckily, there’s another hormone that can feel just as good as adrenaline: oxytocin. It’s activated by human connection and it opens up the networks in our executive brain, or prefrontal cortex, further increasing our ability to trust and open ourselves to sharing. Your goal as a leader should be to spur the production of oxytocin in yourself and others, while avoiding (at least in the context of communication) those spikes of cortisol and adrenaline.

Connecting and bonding with others trumps conflict. I’ve found that even the best fighters — the proverbial smartest guys in the room — can break their addiction to being right by getting hooked on oxytocin-inducing behavior instead.

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Anonymous wrote:No mention of anything they all do together, enjoy, look forward to.

It's so sad for the child.

No dance parties, pancakes with faces, watching cartoons, blowing bubbles mentioned, nothing silly or joyful. No movie nights with neighbors or picnics with friends from law school. Dad's on a screen and mom only does enrichment and goes to war with dad. BOTH using withdrawal from the kid to wind the other up. This is very sick. Both parents really suck. That child is doomed to attachment issues and no one even seems to care who is in her life. They are so determined to overtly or covertly stick it to one another and score points like it is moot court not a FAMILY.

True. OP at no point described pancakes with faces. Very concerning. Should we call cps?