Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Additionally, I think a by-product of the Supreme Court ruling will be the dismantlement of the historically black colleges and universities. They will no longer qualify for federal funding because that would be “racist” under the SC’s twisted logic. I give HCBUs maybe a decade before the vast majority are shut down due to disqualification for federal funds and programs.

The consequences of this decision will be Orwellian.

Nobody is barred from going to an HBCU

The "H" stands for historically, not "only". Howard, for example, has the largest number of Nepalese students of any school in the US

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really want to hear someone defend athletic recruiting to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary the travel, parental involvement and training required for a child to be recruitable are.

I really want to hear someone defend private secondary schools pipeline to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend standardized testing and paid test prep, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend the common app essay and the paid prep and adult assistance, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....

If only we could all have equal outcomes.

There are public magnets to rival private prep schools.

Standardized tests can be prepped for alone using free prep books from the library.

Acquiring help in Common App essays is cheating, and no one defends that.

Meanwhile sports cannot be paid by oneself, requires high fees + high parental involvement. It's also entirely irrelevant to academics. There's no way to defend it.

Are you saying that only rich kids play sports in college? Please, defend that.

Nobody is saying “only rich kids play sports in college,” but yeah, the vast majority college athletes across the spectrum of schools are rich white kids.

NCAA has 326,000 white student athletes in 2022. Hardly plausible that the vast majority are rich. Vast majority are probably upper middle class.

Go look at an Ivy League, ACC, SEC or Big East rowing, xc, lacrosse, soccer, tennis, swimming or golf roster and get back to me

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this whattaboutism is a ridiculous distraction by racist leftwingers. Nobody cares about legacy admits, about sports, about white males. WE WANT ASIAN CHILDREN TO STOP BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IN SCHOOLS OF ALL LEVELS.

Sorry that Biden, FCPS school board, and apparently the rest of the nationwide bleeding heart liberals hate asian kids

Same thing happened in San Francisco.

I agree that schools shouldn't discriminate against Asian-American kids. I also think that the Supreme Court will end affirmative action in college admissions. However, I think it is naive to think that this will end discrimination against Asian students. Elite universities will still find ways to keep the schools from becoming majority Asian and that will be through other hooks like legacy and sports. Also, if you do the math, ending AA at schools will not open as many seats as I think people imagine. Harvard will open about 100 seats (the plaintiffs presented these numbers in their brief). The admit rate for a non-hooked kid will not dramatically change at T20 schools--I would even extend that to T50 schools.

Well, you have to start somewhere.

Just accepting racial discrimination for ever, the current status quo, is a non starter.

I don't disagree but looking at this thread, I think many parents think there will be a sea change starting with the class of 2024. I was talking a neighbor and realized that she doesn't realize how many high stats students are applying to the same 20 schools and also how test optional has made the situation even crazier.

Not to derail but there is no excuse these days for any parent to not realize the current college admission landscape. No matter the socioeconomic status, most everyone has a smart phone these days and sites just like this one, which if read enough does provide a background and source for information, is available for free. Shame on anyone these days who is out of touch of what is going on.

The problem is it’s hard to know who to trust. Everyone wants to sell you something- their book, their coaching, their program…and fear sells

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really want to hear someone defend athletic recruiting to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary the travel, parental involvement and training required for a child to be recruitable are.

I really want to hear someone defend private secondary schools pipeline to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend standardized testing and paid test prep, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend the common app essay and the paid prep and adult assistance, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....

If only we could all have equal outcomes.

There are public magnets to rival private prep schools.

Standardized tests can be prepped for alone using free prep books from the library.

Acquiring help in Common App essays is cheating, and no one defends that.

Meanwhile sports cannot be paid by oneself, requires high fees + high parental involvement. It's also entirely irrelevant to academics. There's no way to defend it.

Are you saying that only rich kids play sports in college? Please, defend that.

Nobody is saying “only rich kids play sports in college,” but yeah, the vast majority college athletes across the spectrum of schools are rich white kids.

NCAA has 326,000 white student athletes in 2022. Hardly plausible that the vast majority are rich. Vast majority are probably upper middle class.

DCUM definition of upper middle class is rich in reality. Lots of 10th graders would love to swim or play soccer at UVa, Amherst, JMU, etc but do not have the resources to train to do so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions workers are miserable racists. They hate poor white people.

+1

Do a lot of "poor white people" even apply to selective colleges?

It's not like a whole bunch of kids from Appalachia are pining to go to HYPS.



Probably not. Community colleges maybe.

Do a lot of "poor Black people" even apply to selective colleges?

It's not like a whole bunch of kids from the inner city are pining to go to HYPS.

Probably not. Community colleges maybe

**see what I did there? Comments like yours exemplify the prejudice that many coastal liberals have against poor white people.

Whites have had advantages in America since birth. Generations had a leg up based on free labor from slavery. No excuses. Many of the poor in small towns remain ignorant, insular, grievance-filled and racist - especially in much of the southern states ( not talking immigrants from Europe here).

Not prejudice. Just the truth.

There are now a lot of liberals who agree with everything you just said but still see AA as a counterproductive policy. The existence of anti-Black racism and its profound impact on the achievement gap is not really in question. What is in question is whether AA can possibly be implemented in a fair way and whether it really achieves its aims. No, and no.

So what is the answer? Ignore it?

Of course not. The answer is for Black people to prioritize education, study hard and compete. Even if the playing field isn’t fair, which is true for many groups. This is society’s problem, but it is not society’s problem to solve. It’s a Black problem with a Black solution.

I like this logic. The next time I run someone over with my car I’ll tell them the solution was for them to have prioritized getting out of my way. Even though it is unfair to hit them with a two ton vehicle that’s not my problem to solve. It’s their problem.

You would hopefully agree that the most important question is not who is at fault, but what is the most effective way to avoid an accident. That is the analogy here. Our society is at fault. That doesn't mean that we can fix the problem.

When the accident had already happened, our entire justice system is geared towards determining who is at fault. If society is at fault, then it’s up to society to fix it. Or do you only believe in responsibility and accountability for the victims?

Justice and effectiveness are two different matters. On justice / fault, we agree. On effectiveness, there is really only so much that external help can do. To continue your analogy, you got hit by a car. You're in a hospital doing therapy. It sucks that it's true, and it's not fair, but really the only way for that therapy to work is for you to put in the effort. It has to be you, nobody else can do it. Again, concede not fair. That's not the point.

Well the guy who hit me with their car is paying for my hospital bills, my therapy, my lost wages and my pain and suffering. So if you prefer straight reparations to affirmative action I guess you’ve made the case.

If your theory of AA is that it is compensatory, this works. Assuming the people actually compensated are disadvantaged, which in practice is dubious. If it's supposed to change things, it seems to be failing.

How is it failing? Because you personally don’t think the recipients are deserving?

DP: it is failing because it isn't working. Heard of massive debts? Of massive drop out rates? Of massive and open racial discrimination against minority groups?

The point of AA is to increase minority representation. How is it not working?

Well, it goes to the heart of what should be the point of AA. Should it be to help a minority graduating from Anacostia HS...or should it function as it currently does where the vast majority of African Americans at elite schools are coming from elite backgrounds. From a Harvard economist:

"Seventy-one percent of Harvard’s Black and Hispanic students come from wealthy backgrounds. A tiny fraction attended underperforming public high schools. First- and second-generation African immigrants, despite constituting only about 10 percent of the U.S. Black population, make up about 41 percent of all Black students in the Ivy League, and Black immigrants are wealthier and better educated than many native-born Black Americans."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really want to hear someone defend athletic recruiting to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary the travel, parental involvement and training required for a child to be recruitable are.

I really want to hear someone defend private secondary schools pipeline to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend standardized testing and paid test prep, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend the common app essay and the paid prep and adult assistance, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....

If only we could all have equal outcomes.

There are public magnets to rival private prep schools.

Standardized tests can be prepped for alone using free prep books from the library.

Acquiring help in Common App essays is cheating, and no one defends that.

Meanwhile sports cannot be paid by oneself, requires high fees + high parental involvement. It's also entirely irrelevant to academics. There's no way to defend it.

Are you saying that only rich kids play sports in college? Please, defend that.

Nobody is saying “only rich kids play sports in college,” but yeah, the vast majority college athletes across the spectrum of schools are rich white kids.

+1
It’s takes a ton of money to get to that level and most sports require traveling and private coaching to get there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this whattaboutism is a ridiculous distraction by racist leftwingers. Nobody cares about legacy admits, about sports, about white males. WE WANT ASIAN CHILDREN TO STOP BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IN SCHOOLS OF ALL LEVELS.

Sorry that Biden, FCPS school board, and apparently the rest of the nationwide bleeding heart liberals hate asian kids

Same thing happened in San Francisco.

I agree that schools shouldn't discriminate against Asian-American kids. I also think that the Supreme Court will end affirmative action in college admissions. However, I think it is naive to think that this will end discrimination against Asian students. Elite universities will still find ways to keep the schools from becoming majority Asian and that will be through other hooks like legacy and sports. Also, if you do the math, ending AA at schools will not open as many seats as I think people imagine. Harvard will open about 100 seats (the plaintiffs presented these numbers in their brief). The admit rate for a non-hooked kid will not dramatically change at T20 schools--I would even extend that to T50 schools.

Well, you have to start somewhere.

Just accepting racial discrimination for ever, the current status quo, is a non starter.

I don't disagree but looking at this thread, I think many parents think there will be a sea change starting with the class of 2024. I was talking a neighbor and realized that she doesn't realize how many high stats students are applying to the same 20 schools and also how test optional has made the situation even crazier.

Not to derail but there is no excuse these days for any parent to not realize the current college admission landscape. No matter the socioeconomic status, most everyone has a smart phone these days and sites just like this one, which if read enough does provide a background and source for information, is available for free. Shame on anyone these days who is out of touch of what is going on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions workers are miserable racists. They hate poor white people.

+1

Do a lot of "poor white people" even apply to selective colleges?

It's not like a whole bunch of kids from Appalachia are pining to go to HYPS.



Probably not. Community colleges maybe.

Do a lot of "poor Black people" even apply to selective colleges?

It's not like a whole bunch of kids from the inner city are pining to go to HYPS.

Probably not. Community colleges maybe

**see what I did there? Comments like yours exemplify the prejudice that many coastal liberals have against poor white people.

Whites have had advantages in America since birth. Generations had a leg up based on free labor from slavery. No excuses. Many of the poor in small towns remain ignorant, insular, grievance-filled and racist - especially in much of the southern states ( not talking immigrants from Europe here).

Not prejudice. Just the truth.

There are now a lot of liberals who agree with everything you just said but still see AA as a counterproductive policy. The existence of anti-Black racism and its profound impact on the achievement gap is not really in question. What is in question is whether AA can possibly be implemented in a fair way and whether it really achieves its aims. No, and no.

So what is the answer? Ignore it?

Of course not. The answer is for Black people to prioritize education, study hard and compete. Even if the playing field isn’t fair, which is true for many groups. This is society’s problem, but it is not society’s problem to solve. It’s a Black problem with a Black solution.

I like this logic. The next time I run someone over with my car I’ll tell them the solution was for them to have prioritized getting out of my way. Even though it is unfair to hit them with a two ton vehicle that’s not my problem to solve. It’s their problem.

You would hopefully agree that the most important question is not who is at fault, but what is the most effective way to avoid an accident. That is the analogy here. Our society is at fault. That doesn't mean that we can fix the problem.

When the accident had already happened, our entire justice system is geared towards determining who is at fault. If society is at fault, then it’s up to society to fix it. Or do you only believe in responsibility and accountability for the victims?

Justice and effectiveness are two different matters. On justice / fault, we agree. On effectiveness, there is really only so much that external help can do. To continue your analogy, you got hit by a car. You're in a hospital doing therapy. It sucks that it's true, and it's not fair, but really the only way for that therapy to work is for you to put in the effort. It has to be you, nobody else can do it. Again, concede not fair. That's not the point.

Well the guy who hit me with their car is paying for my hospital bills, my therapy, my lost wages and my pain and suffering. So if you prefer straight reparations to affirmative action I guess you’ve made the case.

If your theory of AA is that it is compensatory, this works. Assuming the people actually compensated are disadvantaged, which in practice is dubious. If it's supposed to change things, it seems to be failing.

How is it failing? Because you personally don’t think the recipients are deserving?

DP: it is failing because it isn't working. Heard of massive debts? Of massive drop out rates? Of massive and open racial discrimination against minority groups?

The point of AA is to increase minority representation. How is it not working?

I think the point was that eventually you wouldn’t need a thumb in the scale. That has very clearly not materialized.

Anonymous wrote:All this whattaboutism is a ridiculous distraction by racist leftwingers. Nobody cares about legacy admits, about sports, about white males. WE WANT ASIAN CHILDREN TO STOP BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IN SCHOOLS OF ALL LEVELS.

Sorry that Biden, FCPS school board, and apparently the rest of the nationwide bleeding heart liberals hate asian kids

What you really want is to stick it to black people. You’re just using Asians as a fig leaf to do it. Asians know what you really think of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions workers are miserable racists. They hate poor white people.

+1

Do a lot of "poor white people" even apply to selective colleges?

It's not like a whole bunch of kids from Appalachia are pining to go to HYPS.



Probably not. Community colleges maybe.

Do a lot of "poor Black people" even apply to selective colleges?

It's not like a whole bunch of kids from the inner city are pining to go to HYPS.

Probably not. Community colleges maybe

**see what I did there? Comments like yours exemplify the prejudice that many coastal liberals have against poor white people.

Whites have had advantages in America since birth. Generations had a leg up based on free labor from slavery. No excuses. Many of the poor in small towns remain ignorant, insular, grievance-filled and racist - especially in much of the southern states ( not talking immigrants from Europe here).

Not prejudice. Just the truth.

There are now a lot of liberals who agree with everything you just said but still see AA as a counterproductive policy. The existence of anti-Black racism and its profound impact on the achievement gap is not really in question. What is in question is whether AA can possibly be implemented in a fair way and whether it really achieves its aims. No, and no.

So what is the answer? Ignore it?

Of course not. The answer is for Black people to prioritize education, study hard and compete. Even if the playing field isn’t fair, which is true for many groups. This is society’s problem, but it is not society’s problem to solve. It’s a Black problem with a Black solution.

I like this logic. The next time I run someone over with my car I’ll tell them the solution was for them to have prioritized getting out of my way. Even though it is unfair to hit them with a two ton vehicle that’s not my problem to solve. It’s their problem.

You would hopefully agree that the most important question is not who is at fault, but what is the most effective way to avoid an accident. That is the analogy here. Our society is at fault. That doesn't mean that we can fix the problem.

When the accident had already happened, our entire justice system is geared towards determining who is at fault. If society is at fault, then it’s up to society to fix it. Or do you only believe in responsibility and accountability for the victims?

Justice and effectiveness are two different matters. On justice / fault, we agree. On effectiveness, there is really only so much that external help can do. To continue your analogy, you got hit by a car. You're in a hospital doing therapy. It sucks that it's true, and it's not fair, but really the only way for that therapy to work is for you to put in the effort. It has to be you, nobody else can do it. Again, concede not fair. That's not the point.

Well the guy who hit me with their car is paying for my hospital bills, my therapy, my lost wages and my pain and suffering. So if you prefer straight reparations to affirmative action I guess you’ve made the case.

If your theory of AA is that it is compensatory, this works. Assuming the people actually compensated are disadvantaged, which in practice is dubious. If it's supposed to change things, it seems to be failing.

How is it failing? Because you personally don’t think the recipients are deserving?

DP: it is failing because it isn't working. Heard of massive debts? Of massive drop out rates? Of massive and open racial discrimination against minority groups?

The point of AA is to increase minority representation. How is it not working?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really want to hear someone defend athletic recruiting to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary the travel, parental involvement and training required for a child to be recruitable are.

I really want to hear someone defend private secondary schools pipeline to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend standardized testing and paid test prep, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend the common app essay and the paid prep and adult assistance, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....

If only we could all have equal outcomes.

There are public magnets to rival private prep schools.

Standardized tests can be prepped for alone using free prep books from the library.

Acquiring help in Common App essays is cheating, and no one defends that.

Meanwhile sports cannot be paid by oneself, requires high fees + high parental involvement. It's also entirely irrelevant to academics. There's no way to defend it.

Are you saying that only rich kids play sports in college? Please, defend that.

Nobody is saying “only rich kids play sports in college,” but yeah, the vast majority college athletes across the spectrum of schools are rich white kids.

NCAA has 326,000 white student athletes in 2022. Hardly plausible that the vast majority are rich. Vast majority are probably upper middle class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really want to hear someone defend athletic recruiting to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary the travel, parental involvement and training required for a child to be recruitable are.

I really want to hear someone defend private secondary schools pipeline to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend standardized testing and paid test prep, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend the common app essay and the paid prep and adult assistance, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....

If only we could all have equal outcomes.

There are public magnets to rival private prep schools.

Standardized tests can be prepped for alone using free prep books from the library.

Acquiring help in Common App essays is cheating, and no one defends that.

Meanwhile sports cannot be paid by oneself, requires high fees + high parental involvement. It's also entirely irrelevant to academics. There's no way to defend it.

Are you saying that only rich kids play sports in college? Please, defend that.

Nobody is saying “only rich kids play sports in college,” but yeah, the vast majority college athletes across the spectrum of schools are rich white kids.

People in the DC area, particularly lawyers, have a real tough time with averages.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really want to hear someone defend athletic recruiting to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary the travel, parental involvement and training required for a child to be recruitable are.

I really want to hear someone defend private secondary schools pipeline to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend standardized testing and paid test prep, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend the common app essay and the paid prep and adult assistance, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....

If only we could all have equal outcomes.

There are public magnets to rival private prep schools.

Standardized tests can be prepped for alone using free prep books from the library.

Acquiring help in Common App essays is cheating, and no one defends that.

Meanwhile sports cannot be paid by oneself, requires high fees + high parental involvement. It's also entirely irrelevant to academics. There's no way to defend it.

Are you saying that only rich kids play sports in college? Please, defend that.

Nobody is saying “only rich kids play sports in college,” but yeah, the vast majority college athletes across the spectrum of schools are rich white kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this whattaboutism is a ridiculous distraction by racist leftwingers. Nobody cares about legacy admits, about sports, about white males. WE WANT ASIAN CHILDREN TO STOP BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IN SCHOOLS OF ALL LEVELS.

Sorry that Biden, FCPS school board, and apparently the rest of the nationwide bleeding heart liberals hate asian kids

But they aren't. You are delusional.

I think all the claims of racism are coming from one teenager ticked off about not getting into their first choice college. The anonymity of boards like this can be great for getting people to say what they really believe, but we can also fall prey to thinking a bunch of posts are coming from people who agree with one another when it's actually just one very prolific poster.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really want to hear someone defend athletic recruiting to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary the travel, parental involvement and training required for a child to be recruitable are.

I really want to hear someone defend private secondary schools pipeline to elite schools, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend standardized testing and paid test prep, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....
I really want to hear someone defend the common app essay and the paid prep and adult assistance, considering how expensive and therefore exclusionary....

If only we could all have equal outcomes.

There are public magnets to rival private prep schools.

Standardized tests can be prepped for alone using free prep books from the library.

Acquiring help in Common App essays is cheating, and no one defends that.

Meanwhile sports cannot be paid by oneself, requires high fees + high parental involvement. It's also entirely irrelevant to academics. There's no way to defend it.

Are you saying that only rich kids play sports in college? Please, defend that.