Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:46
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
For me the issue is 100% the juxtaposition of:
Larson’s emails to Dorland in which she claims to value their relationship and says her story was only tangentially inspired by Dorland
And
The group chat
I don’t care if these people hate Dorland. Maybe I would hate her too, I don’t know! But if I did, I would not reassure her that I valued her friendship and respected her recent organ donation because while I am as petty, insecure, and hypocritical as any other human, I’m not an actual Bond villain.
Oh, I also don’t pass off other people’s material as my own because I’m not a plagiarist.
People can talk all the sh!t they want in the group chat! That’s what it is for. Just have some modicum of integrity in the rest of your life, and said group chat will never be anyone else’s business, as God intended.
Larson’s emails to Dorland in which she claims to value their relationship and says her story was only tangentially inspired by Dorland
And
The group chat
I don’t care if these people hate Dorland. Maybe I would hate her too, I don’t know! But if I did, I would not reassure her that I valued her friendship and respected her recent organ donation because while I am as petty, insecure, and hypocritical as any other human, I’m not an actual Bond villain.
Oh, I also don’t pass off other people’s material as my own because I’m not a plagiarist.
People can talk all the sh!t they want in the group chat! That’s what it is for. Just have some modicum of integrity in the rest of your life, and said group chat will never be anyone else’s business, as God intended.
Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:44
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I found this Tumblr really interesting, sorry if it was posted before.
https://tienriu.tumblr.com/post/664620642675671040/i-am-so-awake-it-hurts-and-its-been-a-week-of
Holy mother — did Roxane Gay really just suggest that Dawn FAKED her kidney donation for attention?
What is wrong with that woman???
That is awful. Really awful.
Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:36
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
shan1212 wrote:Has anyone else keyword searched their own texts to make sure they're not more Sonya than they know?
I discovered that I have not ever said, "F*** so and so." I have used it as an adjective to describe a situation. I have a couple of friends who do say it in a group chat, and sometimes I will be like, "Well obviously I have reason not to be a fan of that person who has literally harassed me, but also I know that hatred just hurts me so I aim for indifference." Or sometimes I let it go because I'm mad in the moment too, or because no one wants someone to lecture them all the time. But I suppose if these conversations were subpoenaed I would feel like I was guilty of cattyness too.
I thought of another situation recently where in a group of friends who were ostensibly coming together for support, one friend kept singling out another. To make a long story short, I stood up to the bully, and she turned on me, but then apologized and said I was right the next day (not that I doubted it!). If one person isn't safe in a group, then no one is safe. I feel like I'm the person who has to say the hard things because no one else can handle it, or maybe they just convince me of that to get out of it themselves. During a contentious local issue in which people kept using white privilege to hoard public goods, my friends kept saying, "Oh, someone should talk to the news! Oh, someone should start a petition!" but they were all "too afraid" to do it, so I did. It's not that I don't care what others think, but I think I care less than the average person, and that helps in these situations. If I believe I'm right, I'm OK with others thinking I'm wrong. But maybe that's not common.
To be honest, I'm totally fine with people talking shit about people privately and even in private group chats - even saying "F*ck so-and-so". I think the issue at hand is the sheer volume and the years for which this took place; the massive amount of gaslighting, manipulation, duciplity; the twisting of the narrative to villainize the victim; and then the insane lengths to which these people went after being exposed to justify their demented hatred of someone.
Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:32
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
shan1212 wrote:Has anyone else keyword searched their own texts to make sure they're not more Sonya than they know?
I discovered that I have not ever said, "F*** so and so." I have used it as an adjective to describe a situation. I have a couple of friends who do say it in a group chat, and sometimes I will be like, "Well obviously I have reason not to be a fan of that person who has literally harassed me, but also I know that hatred just hurts me so I aim for indifference." Or sometimes I let it go because I'm mad in the moment too, or because no one wants someone to lecture them all the time. But I suppose if these conversations were subpoenaed I would feel like I was guilty of cattyness too.
I thought of another situation recently where in a group of friends who were ostensibly coming together for support, one friend kept singling out another. To make a long story short, I stood up to the bully, and she turned on me, but then apologized and said I was right the next day (not that I doubted it!). If one person isn't safe in a group, then no one is safe. I feel like I'm the person who has to say the hard things because no one else can handle it, or maybe they just convince me of that to get out of it themselves. During a contentious local issue in which people kept using white privilege to hoard public goods, my friends kept saying, "Oh, someone should talk to the news! Oh, someone should start a petition!" but they were all "too afraid" to do it, so I did. It's not that I don't care what others think, but I think I care less than the average person, and that helps in these situations. If I believe I'm right, I'm OK with others thinking I'm wrong. But maybe that's not common.
Yes, I have been catty, but not so catty that I wrote a short story as take-down and gave it a title that made it obvious so my friends could laugh. If she had gotten away with it, the whole city of Boston would have been reading that trash short story. So glad for Dawn that was stopped.
But yeah, you sound like you are not that common. We range from the best to the worst, from Dawns to Sonyas. I have been in between, like most.
Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:27
Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's still on Twitter quite a bit, but the main blue checks have mostly gone silent or made their accounts private, and they are waiting it out until they can pretend they didn't do what they did. Celeste Ng is tweeting endlessly about Afghan refugees.
Nothing will happen.
I would like all these associated names to end up on DNR lists, for there to be some boycott movement, for people in the industries that they schmooze in to at least be aware of this. That's the only language that these people understand and will respect.
It won't happen. I mean yes there will be some DNR lists, but look at the history of Twitter mobs. The perpetrators never really suffer consequences. I suspect Sonya Larsen will get more publisher attention now, not less.
Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:24
Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's still on Twitter quite a bit, but the main blue checks have mostly gone silent or made their accounts private, and they are waiting it out until they can pretend they didn't do what they did. Celeste Ng is tweeting endlessly about Afghan refugees.
Nothing will happen.
Is she getting called out for her obfuscation?
Yes, but not by the east coast Twitterati.
shan1212
10/11/2021 22:21
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Has anyone else keyword searched their own texts to make sure they're not more Sonya than they know?
I discovered that I have not ever said, "F*** so and so." I have used it as an adjective to describe a situation. I have a couple of friends who do say it in a group chat, and sometimes I will be like, "Well obviously I have reason not to be a fan of that person who has literally harassed me, but also I know that hatred just hurts me so I aim for indifference." Or sometimes I let it go because I'm mad in the moment too, or because no one wants someone to lecture them all the time. But I suppose if these conversations were subpoenaed I would feel like I was guilty of cattyness too.
I thought of another situation recently where in a group of friends who were ostensibly coming together for support, one friend kept singling out another. To make a long story short, I stood up to the bully, and she turned on me, but then apologized and said I was right the next day (not that I doubted it!). If one person isn't safe in a group, then no one is safe. I feel like I'm the person who has to say the hard things because no one else can handle it, or maybe they just convince me of that to get out of it themselves. During a contentious local issue in which people kept using white privilege to hoard public goods, my friends kept saying, "Oh, someone should talk to the news! Oh, someone should start a petition!" but they were all "too afraid" to do it, so I did. It's not that I don't care what others think, but I think I care less than the average person, and that helps in these situations. If I believe I'm right, I'm OK with others thinking I'm wrong. But maybe that's not common.
I discovered that I have not ever said, "F*** so and so." I have used it as an adjective to describe a situation. I have a couple of friends who do say it in a group chat, and sometimes I will be like, "Well obviously I have reason not to be a fan of that person who has literally harassed me, but also I know that hatred just hurts me so I aim for indifference." Or sometimes I let it go because I'm mad in the moment too, or because no one wants someone to lecture them all the time. But I suppose if these conversations were subpoenaed I would feel like I was guilty of cattyness too.
I thought of another situation recently where in a group of friends who were ostensibly coming together for support, one friend kept singling out another. To make a long story short, I stood up to the bully, and she turned on me, but then apologized and said I was right the next day (not that I doubted it!). If one person isn't safe in a group, then no one is safe. I feel like I'm the person who has to say the hard things because no one else can handle it, or maybe they just convince me of that to get out of it themselves. During a contentious local issue in which people kept using white privilege to hoard public goods, my friends kept saying, "Oh, someone should talk to the news! Oh, someone should start a petition!" but they were all "too afraid" to do it, so I did. It's not that I don't care what others think, but I think I care less than the average person, and that helps in these situations. If I believe I'm right, I'm OK with others thinking I'm wrong. But maybe that's not common.
Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:20
Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:It's still on Twitter quite a bit, but the main blue checks have mostly gone silent or made their accounts private, and they are waiting it out until they can pretend they didn't do what they did. Celeste Ng is tweeting endlessly about Afghan refugees.
Nothing will happen.
Is she getting called out for her obfuscation?
Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:18
Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:It's still on Twitter quite a bit, but the main blue checks have mostly gone silent or made their accounts private, and they are waiting it out until they can pretend they didn't do what they did. Celeste Ng is tweeting endlessly about Afghan refugees.
Nothing will happen.
I would like all these associated names to end up on DNR lists, for there to be some boycott movement, for people in the industries that they schmooze in to at least be aware of this. That's the only language that these people understand and will respect.
Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:12
Subject: Bad Art Friend
It's still on Twitter quite a bit, but the main blue checks have mostly gone silent or made their accounts private, and they are waiting it out until they can pretend they didn't do what they did. Celeste Ng is tweeting endlessly about Afghan refugees.
Nothing will happen.
Nothing will happen.
Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:06
Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:@kidneygate’s chronology of the emails between Dawn and Sonya is more damning than I can even describe. I’m not on Twitter but anyone on and interested: can you share broadly?
https://mobile.twitter.com/kidneygate/status/1447625724052004864
Wow, Dawn was not badgering her at all. She genuinely talked about why she was confused and hurt because she thought they were friends. Sonya went above and beyond to string her along. It definitely shows a clearer story, not the dramatization in the NYT.
Yeah, I'm pissed at Kolker.
I wonder if he’s connected to Grub Street or the monkeys
I can't quite figure out his angle here. Did he not read the court documents? Does he worry about being kept from publishing by friends of powerful writers like Gay and Ng? Why would he publish something like that article, knowing that the receipts would all be checked, that there is not a factual dispute about what actually happened? Is the NYC literary culture so insular that the bald words on the page are irrelevant? I don't understand.
Omg. That greasy little sh*t. And Celeste Ng couldn’t wait to say how Dawn pitched the story, which appears to be another lie. Seems like the evidence says no. Where is her apology? Is this still raging on Twitter or is t just a few of us DCUM folks still watching? My husband didn’t even know about this.
Ding, ding, ding...Twitter sleuths strike again. Kolker went in to the project favoring Larson, and for whatever reason had to sell himself.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NY_popcorn/status/1447671480200929283/photo/1
Anonymous
10/11/2021 22:03
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I found this Tumblr really interesting, sorry if it was posted before.
https://tienriu.tumblr.com/post/664620642675671040/i-am-so-awake-it-hurts-and-its-been-a-week-of
Holy mother — did Roxane Gay really just suggest that Dawn FAKED her kidney donation for attention?
What is wrong with that woman???
Genuinely disgusted by the blue check response to this entire story.
Anonymous
10/11/2021 21:55
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I found this Tumblr really interesting, sorry if it was posted before.
https://tienriu.tumblr.com/post/664620642675671040/i-am-so-awake-it-hurts-and-its-been-a-week-of
Holy mother — did Roxane Gay really just suggest that Dawn FAKED her kidney donation for attention?
What is wrong with that woman???
Roxane doesn’t understand this kind of sacrifice: it’s not conceivable for her.
Anonymous
10/11/2021 21:44
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:I found this Tumblr really interesting, sorry if it was posted before.
https://tienriu.tumblr.com/post/664620642675671040/i-am-so-awake-it-hurts-and-its-been-a-week-of
Holy mother — did Roxane Gay really just suggest that Dawn FAKED her kidney donation for attention?
What is wrong with that woman???
Anonymous
10/11/2021 21:41
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I looked up Deborah Porter. She is a beautiful woman and clearly a badass! She must have been very righteously pissed. This email is such a slap, from the first-name familiarity, to the lack of salutation, to the "Kindly," which I didn't notice at first. This email says "Step back b!!ch." It is about concise as it can be, and includes a threat. It is master!
The subject line is Cease and Desist. That is a goddamned mic drop. “Sonya, as you’re familiar with a C&D letter, due to Dawn Dorland’s counsel having sent you such a letter, as a result of your ethical violation(s), please understand that if you take this a millimeter further, you’ll regret ever hearing about the festival.”
So very satisfying.