Anonymous wrote:The admission systems described here sound like a quota system. I'm not surprised but still shocking to hear that the schools divided kids by into piles based on race/class. I know Asians have being trying to bring a lawsuit against Princeton (?) and UNC and now I can understand why.

Anonymous wrote:I have asked, and nobody seems to know. Maybe answers will be forthcoming in the next year or two.

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Anonymous wrote:There are about 90 kids per grade at Jefferson. If 10 more kids who were on grade level went to Jefferson next year, its 6th grade proficiency rate would rise from 11%/14% (ELA/Math) to 20%/23%. That's basically the same as Stuart-Hobson (6th grade there was 24%/18%)

Hardy was 42%/27% for 6th grade. Getting to that ELA level at Jefferson just through demographic changes would require about 50 more on-grade-level 6th graders...but if you assume as so many Hill families do, that mere proximity to on-grade-level students would help the underperformers, then you don't need that many.

Math is less daunting. To get to Hardy's level of math proficiency, JA would need to attract 16 more 6th graders who are on grade level. Brent has too few 5th graders to see its proficiency rate, but 13% of 5th graders at Tyler and 7% of 5th graders at Amidon were proficient in math. How many of them go to JA already, and how many more could be convinced to do so? How many proficient 5th graders will Van Ness have in a few years, and will any pick JA? And the kids don't just need to be from feeder schools. Will families in Wards 7 and 8 with proficient kids be willing to send kids to JA instead of SH or Hardy or charters? It really doesn't take that many kids to change proficiency levels at JA to match the middle schools that are currently more desired--and Jefferson used to be just as desirable, if not more so, than SH or Hardy.

But getting 10 or 16 or 50 kids who perform on grade level to pick Jefferson is not easy. Nobody want to be the first mover.

If Jefferson could guarantee honors class offerings on a par with SH's for starters, your ask would be a lot easier.

They have said, repeatedly, that if there are enough kids to fill a class, they will be there. But they aren't going to 'guarantee' it only to have 2 kids from Brent show up.

But then of course those families are worried there won't be a whole class the first year and there won't be anything for their kids.

I'd be grateful if one of the Jefferson boosters (for lack of a better term) would please explain how the honors class placements would likely work at JA.

Let's say 20 current 4th grade Brent families commit to "the big jump," since this appears to be in the works. They return for 5th. However, in the spring and summer before 6th, half a dozen get cold feet. They bail for wherever, so you're down to 14 or 15 kids/families. Then, during the first week of 6th, another few bail because they get off WLs at BASIS, Latin, Hardy, Hobson etc. as part of the traditional first-week-of-school shuffle. Now you're down to 9 or 10 Brent kids going to JA, and presumably a few more performing at or above grade level coming in from other feeders. What happens then? These dozen kids are put into all their own academic classes...? How many kids performing at or above grade level mandates the creation of an honors class, in which subjects, and at which stage in the game? JA hires extra teachers to teach these classes...during the first week of school? Thanks.

You enroll your kids in school, work with the school to make sure learning is differentiated in the classroom, keep tabs on homework, etc. If the year is bumpy you take it as a valuable learning experience and part of your family values. If you need to have something perfect (a "turn key" solution as someone said way upthread) and are extremely risk adverse, you move.

I'm lost. There won't be any honors classes at JA, at least in the first year of the big jump, no matter how many kids working at or above grade level turn up? Perfection is not the issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There are about 90 kids per grade at Jefferson. If 10 more kids who were on grade level went to Jefferson next year, its 6th grade proficiency rate would rise from 11%/14% (ELA/Math) to 20%/23%. That's basically the same as Stuart-Hobson (6th grade there was 24%/18%)

Hardy was 42%/27% for 6th grade. Getting to that ELA level at Jefferson just through demographic changes would require about 50 more on-grade-level 6th graders...but if you assume as so many Hill families do, that mere proximity to on-grade-level students would help the underperformers, then you don't need that many.

Math is less daunting. To get to Hardy's level of math proficiency, JA would need to attract 16 more 6th graders who are on grade level. Brent has too few 5th graders to see its proficiency rate, but 13% of 5th graders at Tyler and 7% of 5th graders at Amidon were proficient in math. How many of them go to JA already, and how many more could be convinced to do so? How many proficient 5th graders will Van Ness have in a few years, and will any pick JA? And the kids don't just need to be from feeder schools. Will families in Wards 7 and 8 with proficient kids be willing to send kids to JA instead of SH or Hardy or charters? It really doesn't take that many kids to change proficiency levels at JA to match the middle schools that are currently more desired--and Jefferson used to be just as desirable, if not more so, than SH or Hardy.

But getting 10 or 16 or 50 kids who perform on grade level to pick Jefferson is not easy. Nobody want to be the first mover.

If Jefferson could guarantee honors class offerings on a par with SH's for starters, your ask would be a lot easier.

They have said, repeatedly, that if there are enough kids to fill a class, they will be there. But they aren't going to 'guarantee' it only to have 2 kids from Brent show up.

But then of course those families are worried there won't be a whole class the first year and there won't be anything for their kids.

I'd be grateful if one of the Jefferson boosters (for lack of a better term) would please explain how the honors class placements would likely work at JA.

Let's say 20 current 4th grade Brent families commit to "the big jump," since this appears to be in the works. They return for 5th. However, in the spring and summer before 6th, half a dozen get cold feet. They bail for wherever, so you're down to 14 or 15 kids/families. Then, during the first week of 6th, another few bail because they get off WLs at BASIS, Latin, Hardy, Hobson etc. as part of the traditional first-week-of-school shuffle. Now you're down to 9 or 10 Brent kids going to JA, and presumably a few more performing at or above grade level coming in from other feeders. What happens then? These dozen kids are put into all their own academic classes...? How many kids performing at or above grade level mandates the creation of an honors class, in which subjects, and at which stage in the game? JA hires extra teachers to teach these classes...during the first week of school? Thanks.

You enroll your kids in school, work with the school to make sure learning is differentiated in the classroom, keep tabs on homework, etc. If the year is bumpy you take it as a valuable learning experience and part of your family values. If you need to have something perfect (a "turn key" solution as someone said way upthread) and are extremely risk adverse, you move.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are about 90 kids per grade at Jefferson. If 10 more kids who were on grade level went to Jefferson next year, its 6th grade proficiency rate would rise from 11%/14% (ELA/Math) to 20%/23%. That's basically the same as Stuart-Hobson (6th grade there was 24%/18%)

Hardy was 42%/27% for 6th grade. Getting to that ELA level at Jefferson just through demographic changes would require about 50 more on-grade-level 6th graders...but if you assume as so many Hill families do, that mere proximity to on-grade-level students would help the underperformers, then you don't need that many.

Math is less daunting. To get to Hardy's level of math proficiency, JA would need to attract 16 more 6th graders who are on grade level. Brent has too few 5th graders to see its proficiency rate, but 13% of 5th graders at Tyler and 7% of 5th graders at Amidon were proficient in math. How many of them go to JA already, and how many more could be convinced to do so? How many proficient 5th graders will Van Ness have in a few years, and will any pick JA? And the kids don't just need to be from feeder schools. Will families in Wards 7 and 8 with proficient kids be willing to send kids to JA instead of SH or Hardy or charters? It really doesn't take that many kids to change proficiency levels at JA to match the middle schools that are currently more desired--and Jefferson used to be just as desirable, if not more so, than SH or Hardy.

But getting 10 or 16 or 50 kids who perform on grade level to pick Jefferson is not easy. Nobody want to be the first mover.

If Jefferson could guarantee honors class offerings on a par with SH's for starters, your ask would be a lot easier.

They have said, repeatedly, that if there are enough kids to fill a class, they will be there. But they aren't going to 'guarantee' it only to have 2 kids from Brent show up.

But then of course those families are worried there won't be a whole class the first year and there won't be anything for their kids.

I'd be grateful if one of the Jefferson boosters (for lack of a better term) would please explain how the honors class placements would likely work at JA.

Let's say 20 current 4th grade Brent families commit to "the big jump," since this appears to be in the works. They return for 5th. However, in the spring and summer before 6th, half a dozen get cold feet. They bail for wherever, so you're down to 14 or 15 kids/families. Then, during the first week of 6th, another few bail because they get off WLs at BASIS, Latin, Hardy, Hobson etc. as part of the traditional first-week-of-school shuffle. Now you're down to 9 or 10 Brent kids going to JA, and presumably a few more performing at or above grade level coming in from other feeders. What happens then? These dozen kids are put into all their own academic classes...? How many kids performing at or above grade level mandates the creation of an honors class, in which subjects, and at which stage in the game? JA hires extra teachers to teach these classes...during the first week of school? Thanks.

Not going to get any coming off WLs in 6th grade after school starts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are about 90 kids per grade at Jefferson. If 10 more kids who were on grade level went to Jefferson next year, its 6th grade proficiency rate would rise from 11%/14% (ELA/Math) to 20%/23%. That's basically the same as Stuart-Hobson (6th grade there was 24%/18%)

Hardy was 42%/27% for 6th grade. Getting to that ELA level at Jefferson just through demographic changes would require about 50 more on-grade-level 6th graders...but if you assume as so many Hill families do, that mere proximity to on-grade-level students would help the underperformers, then you don't need that many.

Math is less daunting. To get to Hardy's level of math proficiency, JA would need to attract 16 more 6th graders who are on grade level. Brent has too few 5th graders to see its proficiency rate, but 13% of 5th graders at Tyler and 7% of 5th graders at Amidon were proficient in math. How many of them go to JA already, and how many more could be convinced to do so? How many proficient 5th graders will Van Ness have in a few years, and will any pick JA? And the kids don't just need to be from feeder schools. Will families in Wards 7 and 8 with proficient kids be willing to send kids to JA instead of SH or Hardy or charters? It really doesn't take that many kids to change proficiency levels at JA to match the middle schools that are currently more desired--and Jefferson used to be just as desirable, if not more so, than SH or Hardy.

But getting 10 or 16 or 50 kids who perform on grade level to pick Jefferson is not easy. Nobody want to be the first mover.

If Jefferson could guarantee honors class offerings on a par with SH's for starters, your ask would be a lot easier.

They have said, repeatedly, that if there are enough kids to fill a class, they will be there. But they aren't going to 'guarantee' it only to have 2 kids from Brent show up.

But then of course those families are worried there won't be a whole class the first year and there won't be anything for their kids.

I'd be grateful if one of the Jefferson boosters (for lack of a better term) would please explain how the honors class placements would likely work at JA.

Let's say 20 current 4th grade Brent families commit to "the big jump," since this appears to be in the works. They return for 5th. However, in the spring and summer before 6th, half a dozen get cold feet. They bail for wherever, so you're down to 14 or 15 kids/families. Then, during the first week of 6th, another few bail because they get off WLs at BASIS, Latin, Hardy, Hobson etc. as part of the traditional first-week-of-school shuffle. Now you're down to 9 or 10 Brent kids going to JA, and presumably a few more performing at or above grade level coming in from other feeders. What happens then? These dozen kids are put into all their own academic classes...? How many kids performing at or above grade level mandates the creation of an honors class, in which subjects, and at which stage in the game? JA hires extra teachers to teach these classes...during the first week of school? Thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are about 90 kids per grade at Jefferson. If 10 more kids who were on grade level went to Jefferson next year, its 6th grade proficiency rate would rise from 11%/14% (ELA/Math) to 20%/23%. That's basically the same as Stuart-Hobson (6th grade there was 24%/18%)

Hardy was 42%/27% for 6th grade. Getting to that ELA level at Jefferson just through demographic changes would require about 50 more on-grade-level 6th graders...but if you assume as so many Hill families do, that mere proximity to on-grade-level students would help the underperformers, then you don't need that many.

Math is less daunting. To get to Hardy's level of math proficiency, JA would need to attract 16 more 6th graders who are on grade level. Brent has too few 5th graders to see its proficiency rate, but 13% of 5th graders at Tyler and 7% of 5th graders at Amidon were proficient in math. How many of them go to JA already, and how many more could be convinced to do so? How many proficient 5th graders will Van Ness have in a few years, and will any pick JA? And the kids don't just need to be from feeder schools. Will families in Wards 7 and 8 with proficient kids be willing to send kids to JA instead of SH or Hardy or charters? It really doesn't take that many kids to change proficiency levels at JA to match the middle schools that are currently more desired--and Jefferson used to be just as desirable, if not more so, than SH or Hardy.

But getting 10 or 16 or 50 kids who perform on grade level to pick Jefferson is not easy. Nobody want to be the first mover.

If Jefferson could guarantee honors class offerings on a par with SH's for starters, your ask would be a lot easier.

They have said, repeatedly, that if there are enough kids to fill a class, they will be there. But they aren't going to 'guarantee' it only to have 2 kids from Brent show up.

But then of course those families are worried there won't be a whole class the first year and there won't be anything for their kids.

I'd be grateful if one of the Jefferson boosters (for lack of a better term) would please explain how the honors class placements would likely work at JA.

Let's say 20 current 4th grade Brent families commit to "the big jump," since this appears to be in the works. They return for 5th. However, in the spring and summer before 6th, half a dozen get cold feet. They bail for wherever, so you're down to 14 or 15 kids/families. Then, during the first week of 6th, another few bail because they get off WLs at BASIS, Latin, Hardy, Hobson etc. as part of the traditional first-week-of-school shuffle. Now you're down to 9 or 10 Brent kids going to JA, and presumably a few more performing at or above grade level coming in from other feeders. What happens then? These dozen kids are put into all their own academic classes...? How many kids performing at or above grade level mandates the creation of an honors class, in which subjects, and at which stage in the game? JA hires extra teachers to teach these classes...during the first week of school? Thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are about 90 kids per grade at Jefferson. If 10 more kids who were on grade level went to Jefferson next year, its 6th grade proficiency rate would rise from 11%/14% (ELA/Math) to 20%/23%. That's basically the same as Stuart-Hobson (6th grade there was 24%/18%)

Hardy was 42%/27% for 6th grade. Getting to that ELA level at Jefferson just through demographic changes would require about 50 more on-grade-level 6th graders...but if you assume as so many Hill families do, that mere proximity to on-grade-level students would help the underperformers, then you don't need that many.

Math is less daunting. To get to Hardy's level of math proficiency, JA would need to attract 16 more 6th graders who are on grade level. Brent has too few 5th graders to see its proficiency rate, but 13% of 5th graders at Tyler and 7% of 5th graders at Amidon were proficient in math. How many of them go to JA already, and how many more could be convinced to do so? How many proficient 5th graders will Van Ness have in a few years, and will any pick JA? And the kids don't just need to be from feeder schools. Will families in Wards 7 and 8 with proficient kids be willing to send kids to JA instead of SH or Hardy or charters? It really doesn't take that many kids to change proficiency levels at JA to match the middle schools that are currently more desired--and Jefferson used to be just as desirable, if not more so, than SH or Hardy.

But getting 10 or 16 or 50 kids who perform on grade level to pick Jefferson is not easy. Nobody want to be the first mover.

If Jefferson could guarantee honors class offerings on a par with SH's for starters, your ask would be a lot easier.

They have said, repeatedly, that if there are enough kids to fill a class, they will be there. But they aren't going to 'guarantee' it only to have 2 kids from Brent show up.

But then of course those families are worried there won't be a whole class the first year and there won't be anything for their kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in the admissions office of my highly-selective college for four years. They want students who can handle the academics, but, honestly, those kids are a dime a dozen. Having interesting life experiences and learning from them (including writing about them in a compelling manner) counted for a tremendous amount and was what made admission officers remember your application. They did not just tally the number of AP classes you took. Maybe things have changed and maybe this college is atypical, but the obsession with APs and IB may be unproductive.

I also worked in the admissions office of my alma mater, an Ivy, just a few years ago. What I observed is that admissions officers work off an unofficial baseline for academics, and the rest, as you point out, was what made them remember you application. The baseline for high SES whites and Asians seemed to be half a dozen (or more) AP tests with scores of 4s and 5s, an IBD points total of at least 40, SATs in the 700s (regular SAT and two subject tests), and a high GPA (but not necessarily sky high for one's high school - valedictorians didn't necessarily fare better than other applicants in the top 15% of their class). If applicants didn't meet the baseline, their application essays and alumni interview reports were not read. Their applications were promptly tossed into a digital "first round rejection" pile. Only applicants who'd met the baseline advanced to the "second read" stage, where essays were in fact read.

Interesting. From my reading, most highly selective schools compare an applicant's curriculum to the highest level curriculum offered at his/her school. Did your Ivy not do this? Many schools do not offer an extensive array of APs.