Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 12:19     Subject: Re:If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
I don't want to have sex if it's just a duty. Sometimes I fantasize about someone else while I'm with DH, but goodness, do what it takes to get into it.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 12:15     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All I'm seeing on this thread is how women have to give, give, give. Some of the posts are bordering misogyny.

What are the men doing differently when the kids are young? What are they sacrificing? What additional "work" are they voluntarily putting into the care of children? Have the men actually initiated on a daily basis to pick up the labor that goes into maintaining th e household? Do your wives have to remind you what needs to be done for the kids and house, or are you an equal enough partnerto do these on your own initiative?


"Give Give Give" reallly? pp? It's just sex for crying out loud. Not donating a kidney.


You should want to have sex with your spouse. I am a woman who did 90% of the childrearing and household management, plus work outside the home longer hours than my H. I still wanted sex with him. If you don't, divorce him and let him find a true romantic partner.


I should also want to work out 6 times a week and donate half my money to the needy but I don't want to. That's not the phrasing you're looking for pp. It's you SHOULD just fucking do it, like all the other million things you don't want to do but do anyway because it keeps life moving. I'm a woman, with kids, my libido is shot, I'm tired and DH doesn't rouse my loins the way he use to. But I still have sex with him, just like I still wake up in the morning, feed the kids, go to work, come home and clean, rinse and repeat the next day.

Add it to the list of chores ladies, fake some enthusiasm and do it. Your DH doesn't know the difference and many don't even care. DH gets an extra spring in his step and like the simple puppy that he is, contributes more manpower to the household labor. May even suprise me with flowers or a foot massage. The kids see Mom and Dad getting along, their homelife still intact and are content. A little sex goes a long way. It keeps the peace, keeps a smile on everyone's faces and keeps life moving. At least in my household anyway. It's a little tiny "sacrifice".
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 12:02     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
But doesn't your wife also experience these drops in personal fulfillment after kids? We ALL share that post-kids. But many women also take on the additional responsibilities of child rearing. Which, without keeping score, kinda doubles their sacrifices. Why can't that be shared as well? So one party doesn't feel gyped?


Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Some of it isn't necessarily a sacrifice. For example, taking on a bigger mortgage was a net sacrifice for me because I absolutely did not care whether I lived in a cheap apartment or a big, nice house. So, the better house didn't increase my happiness, but the mortgage decreased it. For her, the happiness she got from the house outweighed the additional responsibility of the mortgage. And yet, I don't stop contributing to the mortgage when I get resentful that she isn't working as hard as me. Keeping score doesn't work -- not least because our own efforts and sacrifices are a lot more obvious to us than those of our spouse.

And the sex life is part of the whole package. It's a joint deal that both spouses should be working on - along with everything else. And it's important.

But, so often (not always, but often), I think the perception that the HD spouse isn't helpful around the house is more of an excuse for lack of sex instead of the reason. The lack of attraction comes first; the rationalizations come after. If I do the dishes and the laundry is that extra time really going to make her hot and bothered? Really? No. Not usually - maybe in those cases where exhaustion is so complete, and due to absolutely indispensable activities that cannot be avoided. Otherwise, I think low attraction causes the LD spouse to drop the marital sex life behind a bunch of other priorities that aren't mission critical. And, if the HD spouse takes care of some of those priorities, new ones will inevitably fill the void.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:55     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:It's both physical and emotional for me. Yes, I'm rid and would rather sleep. BUT, I resent DH for being so f'ing late every night coming home from work after I've spent all day at work, picked up the kids from school/daycare, made dinner, bathed/showered the kids, and I'm still BFing. DH doesn't t leave the office unless I call him to remind him to see his children at night. Even then, he manages to stop by the liquor store to pick up some beer--making him even later. Last night, he came home at 8:45pm. Did I mention that he's a fed, too? On Saturdays, he'd rather watch Big10 football than engage with his children. I'm fed up.

He wants me to put out, but frankly, I am feeling so unappreciated that sex has zero emotional benefit for me. And please don't tell me that if I have more sex, he'll be a better husband and father. His work habits and priorities haven't changed in good times or tough ones.


But that means you're not having sex because he's selfish. Either resolve the problem, or cut your losses. Are you willing to stay for years married to a guy whom you don't respect and don't want to sleep with? Are you absolutely sure he's not having an affair that causes him to get home late?
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:52     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:Women are SELFISH. Plain and simple. If it doesn't benefit their agenda in some way, they don't want anything to do with it, plain and simple.


Yup. And a lot of the time, they expect the guy to support them financially. No wonder so many men want me - I'm old, but I'm horny and financially self sufficient.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:49     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All I'm seeing on this thread is how women have to give, give, give. Some of the posts are bordering misogyny.

What are the men doing differently when the kids are young? What are they sacrificing? What additional "work" are they voluntarily putting into the care of children? Have the men actually initiated on a daily basis to pick up the labor that goes into maintaining th e household? Do your wives have to remind you what needs to be done for the kids and house, or are you an equal enough partnerto do these on your own initiative?


"Give Give Give" reallly? pp? It's just sex for crying out loud. Not donating a kidney.


You should want to have sex with your spouse. I am a woman who did 90% of the childrearing and household management, plus work outside the home longer hours than my H. I still wanted sex with him. If you don't, divorce him and let him find a true romantic partner.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:49     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All I'm seeing on this thread is how women have to give, give, give. Some of the posts are bordering misogyny.

What are the men doing differently when the kids are young? What are they sacrificing? What additional "work" are they voluntarily putting into the care of children? Have the men actually initiated on a daily basis to pick up the labor that goes into maintaining th e household? Do your wives have to remind you what needs to be done for the kids and house, or are you an equal enough partnerto do these on your own initiative?


Are you kidding me? Take a snapshot of my life pre-marriage, pre-kid and compare it to post-kid and married. By comparison, in the second snapshot, the number of obligations explodes. The amount of time available for activities of my choosing falls to just about zero. The amount of money available for things and activities I would like (or investments so I don't have to work until I'm 85) drops to just about nothing. My ability to just walk from my job if I don't feel like putting up with their shit anymore goes away. So, let's not pretend a married man's life is without sacrifice.

And, let's not get in a pissing match about who has it rougher. Keeping score is going to tear down a marriage every time. These sacrifices are supposed to have offsetting benefits. You have kids who, despite what relentless need factories they can be, are fantastic and not to blame for being needy. And, if you're doing it right, you have a life long partner in your spouse to whom you can give and from whom you can receive love. It's you two against the world. Someone who has your back.

Accepting ebbs and flows in sexual desire is part of the gig. Have 6-8 months after the kid where sex is less frequent or non-existent. Not a big deal. But that wasn't OP's situation -- it was pretty much one big ebb even after child 1 until his DW wanted something from sex, e.g. child #2 then she got her sexual game together long enough to get pregnant.

When the sex goes away, it starts to feel as if your partner takes you, your efforts, and your sacrifices for granted. It feels as if it's not you and your partner against the world; rather you're just a useful tool in her child raising and home financing efforts. Hell, it feels as if she doesn't even like you very much if she's willing to make an effort to undertake any number of discretionary tasks before even considering making an effort to cultivate a sex life with you. It's a harsh thing when your wife would sooner pull weeds in the garden than have sex with you. The message is clear - she's more concerned about the tomatoes dying than your sex life dying.



But doesn't your wife also experience these drops in personal fulfillment after kids? We ALL share that post-kids. But many women also take on the additional responsibilities of child rearing. Which, without keeping score, kinda doubles their sacrifices. Why can't that be shared as well? So one party doesn't feel gyped?
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:42     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:It's both physical and emotional for me. Yes, I'm rid and would rather sleep. BUT, I resent DH for being so f'ing late every night coming home from work after I've spent all day at work, picked up the kids from school/daycare, made dinner, bathed/showered the kids, and I'm still BFing. DH doesn't t leave the office unless I call him to remind him to see his children at night. Even then, he manages to stop by the liquor store to pick up some beer--making him even later. Last night, he came home at 8:45pm. Did I mention that he's a fed, too? On Saturdays, he'd rather watch Big10 football than engage with his children. I'm fed up.

He wants me to put out, but frankly, I am feeling so unappreciated that sex has zero emotional benefit for me. And please don't tell me that if I have more sex, he'll be a better husband and father. His work habits and priorities haven't changed in good times or tough ones.


PP, I get it, your case is different. But have you told him EXPLICITLY that the reason you're not having sex with him is because of all the aforementioned infractions of his? Please be honest. I'm very curious what happens in cases like these
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:35     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:All I'm seeing on this thread is how women have to give, give, give. Some of the posts are bordering misogyny.

What are the men doing differently when the kids are young? What are they sacrificing? What additional "work" are they voluntarily putting into the care of children? Have the men actually initiated on a daily basis to pick up the labor that goes into maintaining th e household? Do your wives have to remind you what needs to be done for the kids and house, or are you an equal enough partnerto do these on your own initiative?


Are you kidding me? Take a snapshot of my life pre-marriage, pre-kid and compare it to post-kid and married. By comparison, in the second snapshot, the number of obligations explodes. The amount of time available for activities of my choosing falls to just about zero. The amount of money available for things and activities I would like (or investments so I don't have to work until I'm 85) drops to just about nothing. My ability to just walk from my job if I don't feel like putting up with their shit anymore goes away. So, let's not pretend a married man's life is without sacrifice.

And, let's not get in a pissing match about who has it rougher. Keeping score is going to tear down a marriage every time. These sacrifices are supposed to have offsetting benefits. You have kids who, despite what relentless need factories they can be, are fantastic and not to blame for being needy. And, if you're doing it right, you have a life long partner in your spouse to whom you can give and from whom you can receive love. It's you two against the world. Someone who has your back.

Accepting ebbs and flows in sexual desire is part of the gig. Have 6-8 months after the kid where sex is less frequent or non-existent. Not a big deal. But that wasn't OP's situation -- it was pretty much one big ebb even after child 1 until his DW wanted something from sex, e.g. child #2 then she got her sexual game together long enough to get pregnant.

When the sex goes away, it starts to feel as if your partner takes you, your efforts, and your sacrifices for granted. It feels as if it's not you and your partner against the world; rather you're just a useful tool in her child raising and home financing efforts. Hell, it feels as if she doesn't even like you very much if she's willing to make an effort to undertake any number of discretionary tasks before even considering making an effort to cultivate a sex life with you. It's a harsh thing when your wife would sooner pull weeds in the garden than have sex with you. The message is clear - she's more concerned about the tomatoes dying than your sex life dying.

Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:32     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
It's both physical and emotional for me. Yes, I'm rid and would rather sleep. BUT, I resent DH for being so f'ing late every night coming home from work after I've spent all day at work, picked up the kids from school/daycare, made dinner, bathed/showered the kids, and I'm still BFing. DH doesn't t leave the office unless I call him to remind him to see his children at night. Even then, he manages to stop by the liquor store to pick up some beer--making him even later. Last night, he came home at 8:45pm. Did I mention that he's a fed, too? On Saturdays, he'd rather watch Big10 football than engage with his children. I'm fed up.

He wants me to put out, but frankly, I am feeling so unappreciated that sex has zero emotional benefit for me. And please don't tell me that if I have more sex, he'll be a better husband and father. His work habits and priorities haven't changed in good times or tough ones.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:21     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All I'm seeing on this thread is how women have to give, give, give. Some of the posts are bordering misogyny.

What are the men doing differently when the kids are young? What are they sacrificing? What additional "work" are they voluntarily putting into the care of children? Have the men actually initiated on a daily basis to pick up the labor that goes into maintaining th e household? Do your wives have to remind you what needs to be done for the kids and house, or are you an equal enough partnerto do these on your own initiative?


Hey, I want to GIVE my DW sex too! I want to give give give it soooo bad!


Well she doesn't want it, sorry. No matter how badly you want to give it. Diamonds on the other hand...
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:18     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All I'm seeing on this thread is how women have to give, give, give. Some of the posts are bordering misogyny.

What are the men doing differently when the kids are young? What are they sacrificing? What additional "work" are they voluntarily putting into the care of children? Have the men actually initiated on a daily basis to pick up the labor that goes into maintaining th e household? Do your wives have to remind you what needs to be done for the kids and house, or are you an equal enough partnerto do these on your own initiative?


"Give Give Give" reallly? pp? It's just sex for crying out loud. Not donating a kidney.


Seriously. Not having sex because of a medical condition where sex is painful or impossible is understandable. Not having sex because you're overall ambivalent and would rather be asleep at 9:30 vs 9:50 is just self-sabotage. It will make your spouse happy, it is not torture, it is sex, so yes, you get something out of too, and it's just such a small "sacrifice." I really can't imagine being willing to put my marriage in jeopardy because I couldn't just "suck it up" and have sex for 20 minutes a couple times a week.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:16     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:All I'm seeing on this thread is how women have to give, give, give. Some of the posts are bordering misogyny.

What are the men doing differently when the kids are young? What are they sacrificing? What additional "work" are they voluntarily putting into the care of children? Have the men actually initiated on a daily basis to pick up the labor that goes into maintaining th e household? Do your wives have to remind you what needs to be done for the kids and house, or are you an equal enough partnerto do these on your own initiative?


Hey, I want to GIVE my DW sex too! I want to give give give it soooo bad!
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:08     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
Anonymous wrote:All I'm seeing on this thread is how women have to give, give, give. Some of the posts are bordering misogyny.

What are the men doing differently when the kids are young? What are they sacrificing? What additional "work" are they voluntarily putting into the care of children? Have the men actually initiated on a daily basis to pick up the labor that goes into maintaining th e household? Do your wives have to remind you what needs to be done for the kids and house, or are you an equal enough partnerto do these on your own initiative?


"Give Give Give" reallly? pp? It's just sex for crying out loud. Not donating a kidney.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2013 11:04     Subject: If I had know this was the case, I probably wouldn't have married you.
All I'm seeing on this thread is how women have to give, give, give. Some of the posts are bordering misogyny.

What are the men doing differently when the kids are young? What are they sacrificing? What additional "work" are they voluntarily putting into the care of children? Have the men actually initiated on a daily basis to pick up the labor that goes into maintaining th e household? Do your wives have to remind you what needs to be done for the kids and house, or are you an equal enough partnerto do these on your own initiative?