Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

No one cares, you worthless troll. This is not a campaign website. People are under no obligation to smile politely while the orange insurrectionist marches in and spits all over them.

Ridiculous overreaction to a good point. DP

Your children don’t need to do extracurriculars at 5 pm! Why are you getting mad at someone who pays a babysitter to watch and drive children around for a few hours after school because they have to work during that time when for years you have not been working during that time? Maybe check your privilege and consider other families make sacrifices financially to pay for childcare from 3:30-5:30 while you just stopped working at 3:30. Check your own privilege. It’s actually really rare to not have to pay for any after school care for elementary aged kids when both parents work.

I’m sorry you think it was a “privilege” for me to graduate college with honors and a super high LSAT score, receive scholarships to a number of highly ranked law schools, serve as editor of a law journal, clerk for a year and then use my qualifications to land a flexible government job in lieu of making private sector pay.

Do you really think that anyone who has something you don’t (whether the ability to work flexible hours, or make huge bonuses, or have a client expense account, or whatever it is) is more privileged than you? Or could it be that they worked hard and made strategic decisions?

You are welcome to have followed the same career path. Oh and I come from a very working class family, no lawyers in my family. I had to bust my butt through school for all of this.

I have never read such a narcissistic post about…childcare? Is this about childcare? I think the only biographical information you left out was your blood type.

I’m sure you’ll be able to figure out after school childcare just like the millions of people who figure it out despite the fact that they weren’t the head of the environmental law review at Fordham.

PP’s point is that there are many over-qualified feds who took the job because of the flexibility and benefits - and we wouldn’t be in the public sector without it. So making the job worse means the quality of the workforce will decrease. this is pretty basic economics.

The flexibility was never not having to worry about childcare for children below the age of about 9 - until COVID.

+100

It's insane so many Feds are short on childcare. You were never meant to work with your kids under your care while you work.

Anonymous wrote:The reason there is such an uproar over this is because so many have taken advantage of the system--moved far away, dropped childcare etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

No one cares, you worthless troll. This is not a campaign website. People are under no obligation to smile politely while the orange insurrectionist marches in and spits all over them.

Ridiculous overreaction to a good point. DP

Your children don’t need to do extracurriculars at 5 pm! Why are you getting mad at someone who pays a babysitter to watch and drive children around for a few hours after school because they have to work during that time when for years you have not been working during that time? Maybe check your privilege and consider other families make sacrifices financially to pay for childcare from 3:30-5:30 while you just stopped working at 3:30. Check your own privilege. It’s actually really rare to not have to pay for any after school care for elementary aged kids when both parents work.

I’m sorry you think it was a “privilege” for me to graduate college with honors and a super high LSAT score, receive scholarships to a number of highly ranked law schools, serve as editor of a law journal, clerk for a year and then use my qualifications to land a flexible government job in lieu of making private sector pay.

Do you really think that anyone who has something you don’t (whether the ability to work flexible hours, or make huge bonuses, or have a client expense account, or whatever it is) is more privileged than you? Or could it be that they worked hard and made strategic decisions?

You are welcome to have followed the same career path. Oh and I come from a very working class family, no lawyers in my family. I had to bust my butt through school for all of this.

I have never read such a narcissistic post about…childcare? Is this about childcare? I think the only biographical information you left out was your blood type.

I’m sure you’ll be able to figure out after school childcare just like the millions of people who figure it out despite the fact that they weren’t the head of the environmental law review at Fordham.

PP’s point is that there are many over-qualified feds who took the job because of the flexibility and benefits - and we wouldn’t be in the public sector without it. So making the job worse means the quality of the workforce will decrease. this is pretty basic economics.

The flexibility was never not having to worry about childcare for children below the age of about 9 - until COVID.

+100

It's insane so many Feds are short on childcare. You were never meant to work with your kids under your care while you work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

No one cares, you worthless troll. This is not a campaign website. People are under no obligation to smile politely while the orange insurrectionist marches in and spits all over them.

Ridiculous overreaction to a good point. DP

Your children don’t need to do extracurriculars at 5 pm! Why are you getting mad at someone who pays a babysitter to watch and drive children around for a few hours after school because they have to work during that time when for years you have not been working during that time? Maybe check your privilege and consider other families make sacrifices financially to pay for childcare from 3:30-5:30 while you just stopped working at 3:30. Check your own privilege. It’s actually really rare to not have to pay for any after school care for elementary aged kids when both parents work.

I’m sorry you think it was a “privilege” for me to graduate college with honors and a super high LSAT score, receive scholarships to a number of highly ranked law schools, serve as editor of a law journal, clerk for a year and then use my qualifications to land a flexible government job in lieu of making private sector pay.

Do you really think that anyone who has something you don’t (whether the ability to work flexible hours, or make huge bonuses, or have a client expense account, or whatever it is) is more privileged than you? Or could it be that they worked hard and made strategic decisions?

You are welcome to have followed the same career path. Oh and I come from a very working class family, no lawyers in my family. I had to bust my butt through school for all of this.

I have never read such a narcissistic post about…childcare? Is this about childcare? I think the only biographical information you left out was your blood type.

I’m sure you’ll be able to figure out after school childcare just like the millions of people who figure it out despite the fact that they weren’t the head of the environmental law review at Fordham.

PP’s point is that there are many over-qualified feds who took the job because of the flexibility and benefits - and we wouldn’t be in the public sector without it. So making the job worse means the quality of the workforce will decrease. this is pretty basic economics.

The flexibility was never not having to worry about childcare for children below the age of about 9 - until COVID.

+100

It's insane so many Feds are short on childcare. You were never meant to work with your kids under your care while you work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason there is such an uproar over this is because so many have taken advantage of the system--moved far away, dropped childcare etc.

You can keep trotting out this line. It doesn’t make it true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

No one cares, you worthless troll. This is not a campaign website. People are under no obligation to smile politely while the orange insurrectionist marches in and spits all over them.

Ridiculous overreaction to a good point. DP

Your children don’t need to do extracurriculars at 5 pm! Why are you getting mad at someone who pays a babysitter to watch and drive children around for a few hours after school because they have to work during that time when for years you have not been working during that time? Maybe check your privilege and consider other families make sacrifices financially to pay for childcare from 3:30-5:30 while you just stopped working at 3:30. Check your own privilege. It’s actually really rare to not have to pay for any after school care for elementary aged kids when both parents work.

I’m sorry you think it was a “privilege” for me to graduate college with honors and a super high LSAT score, receive scholarships to a number of highly ranked law schools, serve as editor of a law journal, clerk for a year and then use my qualifications to land a flexible government job in lieu of making private sector pay.

Do you really think that anyone who has something you don’t (whether the ability to work flexible hours, or make huge bonuses, or have a client expense account, or whatever it is) is more privileged than you? Or could it be that they worked hard and made strategic decisions?

You are welcome to have followed the same career path. Oh and I come from a very working class family, no lawyers in my family. I had to bust my butt through school for all of this.

I have never read such a narcissistic post about…childcare? Is this about childcare? I think the only biographical information you left out was your blood type.

I’m sure you’ll be able to figure out after school childcare just like the millions of people who figure it out despite the fact that they weren’t the head of the environmental law review at Fordham.

PP’s point is that there are many over-qualified feds who took the job because of the flexibility and benefits - and we wouldn’t be in the public sector without it. So making the job worse means the quality of the workforce will decrease. this is pretty basic economics.

The flexibility was never not having to worry about childcare for children below the age of about 9 - until COVID.

Anonymous wrote:I just did a cursory search for private sector jobs in my industry. They all pay 30-50% more than I make and most are closer to my house. If I need to go into an office every day I may as well make more money with a shorter commute.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The answer to this, beyond challenging it with grievances, etc., is to work to the rule. Follow each and every regulation and policy to the letter. No short cuts. No time-savers. Not a second of work after the clock. Don't bring your laptop home. Don't answer calls after hours. If people don't get their disability claims approved for 10 years because the form needs to filled out in triplicate and the physician signed in the wrong place, then that's too bad. No IRS refund check because we had to quadruple check your identify and get the Treasury secretary to hand sign the check? Too bad.

THIS. FAFO. There will be no laptop at home. Answering questions on vacation. Staying for a late meeting. It’ll be 8 hours and done.

Please. Let's not pretend it's been different with y'all working at home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Yes that’s exactly what parents did. Some families can flex schedules so one parent drops off and goes in later while the other goes in earlier and does end of the day pick up. Others get nannies, after school sitters or use family help. People do before and aftercare with summer camps and camp selection often was based on work needs not kid preferences. It was common for people to do some work from home in the evenings or early mornings on those occasions where not everything got completed during the work day. And lots of vacation leave gets sucked up by days off from school if you don’t have childcare that runs during periods when schools are closed.

People who had their kids in 2019 or before would be familiar with this. It’s just going back to pre Covid life.

Oh my goodness to the majority of parents this is all common knowledge.
Are you really not aware that people who have kids and by necessity also have jobs... are making tradeoffs & piecing things together every single fcking day?
Yet you expect our taxes to pay your overcompensated salaries/benefits/vaca/snow days (omg!) ect ect while you get to sit home because god forbid you should be inconvenienced getting larla to all her extracurricular activities & camp
Welcome to the majority's reality. Hope you enjoy your stay

I mean, my org is fee funded. So, no, you don't actually pay my salary.

My job was open to the public. Anyone could have applied. If you had the right background and were qualified you to could have had a flex schedule. But you didn’t apply. I did. I planned for this life and now it is snapped up because you think I am a slacker when in reality I work really hard and had a plan to get a job like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Yes that’s exactly what parents did. Some families can flex schedules so one parent drops off and goes in later while the other goes in earlier and does end of the day pick up. Others get nannies, after school sitters or use family help. People do before and aftercare with summer camps and camp selection often was based on work needs not kid preferences. It was common for people to do some work from home in the evenings or early mornings on those occasions where not everything got completed during the work day. And lots of vacation leave gets sucked up by days off from school if you don’t have childcare that runs during periods when schools are closed.

People who had their kids in 2019 or before would be familiar with this. It’s just going back to pre Covid life.

Oh my goodness to the majority of parents this is all common knowledge.
Are you really not aware that people who have kids and by necessity also have jobs... are making tradeoffs & piecing things together every single fcking day?
Yet you expect our taxes to pay your overcompensated salaries/benefits/vaca/snow days (omg!) ect ect while you get to sit home because god forbid you should be inconvenienced getting larla to all her extracurricular activities & camp
Welcome to the majority's reality. Hope you enjoy your stay

I mean, my org is fee funded. So, no, you don't actually pay my salary.

Anonymous wrote:The answer to this, beyond challenging it with grievances, etc., is to work to the rule. Follow each and every regulation and policy to the letter. No short cuts. No time-savers. Not a second of work after the clock. Don't bring your laptop home. Don't answer calls after hours. If people don't get their disability claims approved for 10 years because the form needs to filled out in triplicate and the physician signed in the wrong place, then that's too bad. No IRS refund check because we had to quadruple check your identify and get the Treasury secretary to hand sign the check? Too bad.