Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

So in other words, you want to pull down the ladder behind you.

Not at all. I don’t think my kid should be up against MCPS kids who get Bs and then “show improvement” and all of a sudden it’s an A. Give me a break.

What does this even mean? I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I imagine your implication is that public schools hand out As like candy. While there is grade inflation, a lot of it is at the lower end so that kids who are failing actually end up graduating. Some easy electives like Tech, Forensics or a class like PE\Health do give out easy As but generally Honors and AP classes are very teacher dependent. Some of the teachers are very tough even in public school. College admissions officers are not completely dumb by the way. They look at a 3.8 GPA from Sidwell very differently than a 3.8 GPA from public school

This was our experience. Tech and PE/Health were required, but you only took them in semesters when your scheduled was heavily loaded up on APs. My kids had teachers who were stingy with As, too.

Yes but in MCPS the letter grades from each quarter are averaged. You can get an 89.5 quarter one (A) and a 79.5 quarter two (B) and you get a 4.0 (A). A 4.0!!!!

At NCS percentages are averaged. So at NCS an 89.5 first quarter and a 79.5 second quarter is averaged to a 84.5 which is a straight B. or a 3.0. A MASSIVE difference in GPA despite the kid getting the IDENTICAL percentages each quarter as the MCPS kid.

Can you see how much harder it is to do well under the NCS system???

Do you think UMD's admissions officers aren't aware of this? Even if the first cut is AI, there will be a flag for the type of school. This is admissions 101.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t really matter due to advent of TO, the point of the APs is not the test score, it’s the GPA boost

NO.

It's not, and never has been, about the GPA boost. Colleges look at UNWEIGHTED GPA, not weighted GPA. This point has been repeated over and over again on this thread, and over and over on DCUM for at least since my oldest kid was applying five years ago, in the pre-TO era. How many more times before you get it?

For kids going to state schools and many SLACs, a 4-5 on an AP will let them skip and get credit for the intro, 100-level course, which could save them tuition or being bored for a semester. Ivies generally don't allow this and only use APs for credentialling.

The point of APs is credentialling for public school kids, where the quality of teaching may be more uneven and colleges want assurance that A in AP Statistics reflects a solid understanding of the material.

Result: A kid who scores 4 or 5 on an AP will send in their scores, TO or not.

Rather than just repeating this claim over and over, it would probably be more effective if you could get state flagships to make public statements explaining this. Because right now many of them say they give bumps for APs, or use your school’s weighted GPA. And no one is going to trust some anonymous comment on DCUM when the schools themselves are issuing official statements that say the opposite.

This is the heart of the problem these kids are facing, by the way: the privates are so optimized for getting hooked kids into T15s that when a kid strikes out in the T30 and decides to go for a state flagship, they wind up falling pretty far down the list.

Nobody is disputing that a 4 or 5 on an AP will give your kid a bump. The whole point is that colleges use it to make sure your kid's A in chem is for real--if your kid scores high on AP chem, it's clear they actually know the material, regardless of the quality of the class or the teacher. So that's a strawman right there.

So have your kid take the AP test even if their class wasn't labelled "AP." Although a tutor might help, I know kids who have done this, and done well, even without tutoring--like my kid. It was actually only a few week's work to figure out the material that wasn't covered in the class but could be on the AP test. Buy the relevant AP test prep book. Maybe it's too late for private school kids in this round, but going forward private school families might consider this.

Ha.

I got a C+ in my AP bio class junior year and then a 5 on the AP exam. I mentioned it to my teacher in passing the following fall, and he changed my grade to an A-. Go figure.

Is this private? FCPS has told us no grades can be changed after they’ve been entered.

Sorry--previous poster here.

Did not mean to type in all bold.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

So in other words, you want to pull down the ladder behind you.

Not at all. I don’t think my kid should be up against MCPS kids who get Bs and then “show improvement” and all of a sudden it’s an A. Give me a break.

What does this even mean? I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I imagine your implication is that public schools hand out As like candy. While there is grade inflation, a lot of it is at the lower end so that kids who are failing actually end up graduating. Some easy electives like Tech, Forensics or a class like PE\Health do give out easy As but generally Honors and AP classes are very teacher dependent. Some of the teachers are very tough even in public school. College admissions officers are not completely dumb by the way. They look at a 3.8 GPA from Sidwell very differently than a 3.8 GPA from public school

This was our experience. Tech and PE/Health were required, but you only took them in semesters when your scheduled was heavily loaded up on APs. My kids had teachers who were stingy with As, too.

Yes but in MCPS the letter grades from each quarter are averaged. You can get an 89.5 quarter one (A) and a 79.5 quarter two (B) and you get a 4.0 (A). A 4.0!!!!

At NCS percentages are averaged. So at NCS an 89.5 first quarter and a 79.5 second quarter is averaged to a 84.5 which is a straight B. or a 3.0. A MASSIVE difference in GPA despite the kid getting the IDENTICAL percentages each quarter as the MCPS kid.

Can you see how much harder it is to do well under the NCS system???

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

So in other words, you want to pull down the ladder behind you.

Not at all. I don’t think my kid should be up against MCPS kids who get Bs and then “show improvement” and all of a sudden it’s an A. Give me a break.

What does this even mean? I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I imagine your implication is that public schools hand out As like candy. While there is grade inflation, a lot of it is at the lower end so that kids who are failing actually end up graduating. Some easy electives like Tech, Forensics or a class like PE\Health do give out easy As but generally Honors and AP classes are very teacher dependent. Some of the teachers are very tough even in public school. College admissions officers are not completely dumb by the way. They look at a 3.8 GPA from Sidwell very differently than a 3.8 GPA from public school

https://rockvillerampage.com/13421/opinion/mcps-needs-to-address-grade-inflation-head-on

Uh, yes, they do, in comparison.

Once again, public school kids are not the enemy, and they are not the reason your Larlo didn't get into Columbia. Your kid's real problem is that they were competing with their own classmates who were athletic recruits, received national recognition in an EC, or had higher grades, better teacher recs, or a rich or famous parent.

The real myth here is that Larlo can waltz into Columbia with average ECs and grades relative to his own classmates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

So in other words, you want to pull down the ladder behind you.

Not at all. I don’t think my kid should be up against MCPS kids who get Bs and then “show improvement” and all of a sudden it’s an A. Give me a break.

What does this even mean? I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I imagine your implication is that public schools hand out As like candy. While there is grade inflation, a lot of it is at the lower end so that kids who are failing actually end up graduating. Some easy electives like Tech, Forensics or a class like PE\Health do give out easy As but generally Honors and AP classes are very teacher dependent. Some of the teachers are very tough even in public school. College admissions officers are not completely dumb by the way. They look at a 3.8 GPA from Sidwell very differently than a 3.8 GPA from public school

https://rockvillerampage.com/13421/opinion/mcps-needs-to-address-grade-inflation-head-on

Uh, yes, they do, in comparison.

DP. Did you read the rest of the post? Most of the inflation is to help kids at the bottom graduate. That was our experience, too. College-bound kids took a different set of classes with little inflation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

So in other words, you want to pull down the ladder behind you.

Not at all. I don’t think my kid should be up against MCPS kids who get Bs and then “show improvement” and all of a sudden it’s an A. Give me a break.

What does this even mean? I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I imagine your implication is that public schools hand out As like candy. While there is grade inflation, a lot of it is at the lower end so that kids who are failing actually end up graduating. Some easy electives like Tech, Forensics or a class like PE\Health do give out easy As but generally Honors and AP classes are very teacher dependent. Some of the teachers are very tough even in public school. College admissions officers are not completely dumb by the way. They look at a 3.8 GPA from Sidwell very differently than a 3.8 GPA from public school

This was our experience. Tech and PE/Health were required, but you only took them in semesters when your scheduled was heavily loaded up on APs. My kids had teachers who were stingy with As, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

So in other words, you want to pull down the ladder behind you.

Not at all. I don’t think my kid should be up against MCPS kids who get Bs and then “show improvement” and all of a sudden it’s an A. Give me a break.

What does this even mean? I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I imagine your implication is that public schools hand out As like candy. While there is grade inflation, a lot of it is at the lower end so that kids who are failing actually end up graduating. Some easy electives like Tech, Forensics or a class like PE\Health do give out easy As but generally Honors and AP classes are very teacher dependent. Some of the teachers are very tough even in public school. College admissions officers are not completely dumb by the way. They look at a 3.8 GPA from Sidwell very differently than a 3.8 GPA from public school

https://rockvillerampage.com/13421/opinion/mcps-needs-to-address-grade-inflation-head-on

Uh, yes, they do, in comparison.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

DP. You just don't want to accept the truth, do you? College admissions reps understand all about grading at different schools and they factor this into their decisions. Most top colleges even have their own, proprietary weighting systems, where they take your kid's transcript apart and reweight everything according to what they value. How many times does this need to be repeated?

I'm sorry your kid didn't get into their first choice. But you spending hours here blaming everybody else is a bad look.

No they aren’t weighing the schools properly and factoring this into their decisions. This is what 1/2 the people on this thread have been saying. And my kid isn’t apply to school yet.

A few bitter private school parents (maybe even just one prolific private school parent) have been claiming this. They're ignorant.

Colleges--ivies and many state schools--DO reweight a kid's transcript. Fact.

Many colleges, from ivies to UMD and UVA, know all about the rigor at different schools in the DMV, and they DO take this into consideration. Fact.

LOL at "they're not weighting the schools properly." It may be true that UMD sees its mission as helping lower- and middle-income kids and isn't impressed by a Sidwell diploma, I don't know.

Any school that has a regional rep will have reporting on the distinction between a so-called Big3 and other indepdent schools, in terms of rigor. The schools also include a completely course description in the school profiles, so the admissions officers can gain the context of the grade points and relative grades compared to peers within the schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t really matter due to advent of TO, the point of the APs is not the test score, it’s the GPA boost

NO.

It's not, and never has been, about the GPA boost. Colleges look at UNWEIGHTED GPA, not weighted GPA. This point has been repeated over and over again on this thread, and over and over on DCUM for at least since my oldest kid was applying five years ago, in the pre-TO era. How many more times before you get it?

For kids going to state schools and many SLACs, a 4-5 on an AP will let them skip and get credit for the intro, 100-level course, which could save them tuition or being bored for a semester. Ivies generally don't allow this and only use APs for credentialling.

The point of APs is credentialling for public school kids, where the quality of teaching may be more uneven and colleges want assurance that A in AP Statistics reflects a solid understanding of the material.

Result: A kid who scores 4 or 5 on an AP will send in their scores, TO or not.

Rather than just repeating this claim over and over, it would probably be more effective if you could get state flagships to make public statements explaining this. Because right now many of them say they give bumps for APs, or use your school’s weighted GPA. And no one is going to trust some anonymous comment on DCUM when the schools themselves are issuing official statements that say the opposite.

This is the heart of the problem these kids are facing, by the way: the privates are so optimized for getting hooked kids into T15s that when a kid strikes out in the T30 and decides to go for a state flagship, they wind up falling pretty far down the list.

Nobody is disputing that a 4 or 5 on an AP will give your kid a bump. The whole point is that colleges use it to make sure your kid's A in chem is for real--if your kid scores high on AP chem, it's clear they actually know the material, regardless of the quality of the class or the teacher. So that's a strawman right there.

So have your kid take the AP test even if their class wasn't labelled "AP." Although a tutor might help, I know kids who have done this, and done well, even without tutoring--like my kid. It was actually only a few week's work to figure out the material that wasn't covered in the class but could be on the AP test. Buy the relevant AP test prep book. Maybe it's too late for private school kids in this round, but going forward private school families might consider this.

You misunderstand me. Flagships are admitting by formula, or at least using a formula to narrow the pool. And that formula includes GPA. And for many schools, that GPA is either the weighted GPA as calculated by your high school (Georgia does it that way) or a recalculated GPA that weights for an official AP course, but not for a private school’s proprietary “advanced” course (the UC schools do it that way). Yes, the exam scores will help too—if the kid’s private school GPA is high enough to make it past that first cut.

If this is true (and I'm not 100% convinced), then you need to bring it up with your private school admin. They'd need to develop a credible way to weight some classes higher. That is, weigh the advanced math classes higher, don't just say "we're Sidwell."

Which might entail a whole re-thinking of the private school modus operandi, tbh. I don't buy that private school kids work harder than college-bound kids in public schools who are taking 6-8-10 APs. But in public schools, it's the 6-8-10 APs that separate these kids from the rest who are taking lower-pressure honors classes. In public schools, Honors English and AP English are two very different animals, and that's what justifies the higher weights for AP classes.

Maybe even the top privates need to find tracks for kids who don't want to kill themselves and know they're not going to win the dogfight to get into Yale anyway. Harvard used to have a "happy bottom quarter." The kids who want to grind the hardest classes, like the public school kids taking all those APs, get their classes weighted accordingly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t really matter due to advent of TO, the point of the APs is not the test score, it’s the GPA boost

NO.

It's not, and never has been, about the GPA boost. Colleges look at UNWEIGHTED GPA, not weighted GPA. This point has been repeated over and over again on this thread, and over and over on DCUM for at least since my oldest kid was applying five years ago, in the pre-TO era. How many more times before you get it?

For kids going to state schools and many SLACs, a 4-5 on an AP will let them skip and get credit for the intro, 100-level course, which could save them tuition or being bored for a semester. Ivies generally don't allow this and only use APs for credentialling.

The point of APs is credentialling for public school kids, where the quality of teaching may be more uneven and colleges want assurance that A in AP Statistics reflects a solid understanding of the material.

Result: A kid who scores 4 or 5 on an AP will send in their scores, TO or not.

Rather than just repeating this claim over and over, it would probably be more effective if you could get state flagships to make public statements explaining this. Because right now many of them say they give bumps for APs, or use your school’s weighted GPA. And no one is going to trust some anonymous comment on DCUM when the schools themselves are issuing official statements that say the opposite.

This is the heart of the problem these kids are facing, by the way: the privates are so optimized for getting hooked kids into T15s that when a kid strikes out in the T30 and decides to go for a state flagship, they wind up falling pretty far down the list.

Nobody is disputing that a 4 or 5 on an AP will give your kid a bump. The whole point is that colleges use it to make sure your kid's A in chem is for real--if your kid scores high on AP chem, it's clear they actually know the material, regardless of the quality of the class or the teacher. So that's a strawman right there.

So have your kid take the AP test even if their class wasn't labelled "AP." Although a tutor might help, I know kids who have done this, and done well, even without tutoring--like my kid. It was actually only a few week's work to figure out the material that wasn't covered in the class but could be on the AP test. Buy the relevant AP test prep book. Maybe it's too late for private school kids in this round, but going forward private school families might consider this.

Ha.

I got a C+ in my AP bio class junior year and then a 5 on the AP exam. I mentioned it to my teacher in passing the following fall, and he changed my grade to an A-. Go figure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t really matter due to advent of TO, the point of the APs is not the test score, it’s the GPA boost

NO.

It's not, and never has been, about the GPA boost. Colleges look at UNWEIGHTED GPA, not weighted GPA. This point has been repeated over and over again on this thread, and over and over on DCUM for at least since my oldest kid was applying five years ago, in the pre-TO era. How many more times before you get it?

For kids going to state schools and many SLACs, a 4-5 on an AP will let them skip and get credit for the intro, 100-level course, which could save them tuition or being bored for a semester. Ivies generally don't allow this and only use APs for credentialling.

The point of APs is credentialling for public school kids, where the quality of teaching may be more uneven and colleges want assurance that A in AP Statistics reflects a solid understanding of the material.

Result: A kid who scores 4 or 5 on an AP will send in their scores, TO or not.

Rather than just repeating this claim over and over, it would probably be more effective if you could get state flagships to make public statements explaining this. Because right now many of them say they give bumps for APs, or use your school’s weighted GPA. And no one is going to trust some anonymous comment on DCUM when the schools themselves are issuing official statements that say the opposite.

This is the heart of the problem these kids are facing, by the way: the privates are so optimized for getting hooked kids into T15s that when a kid strikes out in the T30 and decides to go for a state flagship, they wind up falling pretty far down the list.

The schools have their own GPA reporting formula that incorporates APs and other rigor elements.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow- I went to a TT SLAC in the 90s from NCS with a similar GPA and a 1480 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“You may have more data at NCS but there are plenty of unhappy parents and students regarding college outcomes at NCS. Yes, the education is outstanding but it is hard for students not to question why they worked so hard in HS to end up at a school like Bates or Wisconsin. “

I am an NCS parent of a senior. We would be dancing on the rooftops if our DD got into Wisconsin. It was a rejection. We are looking at options much, much lower on the USNWR list. Think 75-120.

what is your child's approx. GPA? NCS parent here.

GPA is 3.4. ACT is 33

That truly sucks. All the grade inflation at public schools and test optional is so frustrating.

This is so tone deaf. You realize that “back in the day,” elite colleges only let in certain types of people (originally WASP-Y men from certain families and high schools). Broadening access to a wider swath of kids is a GOOD thing for the colleges and for the country vs having something more like an oligarchy of access. Private school kids do not need MORE protection and benefits. They are going to be fine.

-parent of private school kid who didn’t have a great college outcome

I don’t need a lesson from you about “back in the day”, but thanks private school parent. I was first gen to go to college from LM family. No one said anything about protections or benefits. A meritocracy should be the goal. Not for public schools to inflate grades so that a 4.0 has no more meaning.

So in other words, you want to pull down the ladder behind you.

Not at all. I don’t think my kid should be up against MCPS kids who get Bs and then “show improvement” and all of a sudden it’s an A. Give me a break.

What does this even mean? I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I imagine your implication is that public schools hand out As like candy. While there is grade inflation, a lot of it is at the lower end so that kids who are failing actually end up graduating. Some easy electives like Tech, Forensics or a class like PE\Health do give out easy As but generally Honors and AP classes are very teacher dependent. Some of the teachers are very tough even in public school. College admissions officers are not completely dumb by the way. They look at a 3.8 GPA from Sidwell very differently than a 3.8 GPA from public school

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t really matter due to advent of TO, the point of the APs is not the test score, it’s the GPA boost

NO.

It's not, and never has been, about the GPA boost. Colleges look at UNWEIGHTED GPA, not weighted GPA. This point has been repeated over and over again on this thread, and over and over on DCUM for at least since my oldest kid was applying five years ago, in the pre-TO era. How many more times before you get it?

For kids going to state schools and many SLACs, a 4-5 on an AP will let them skip and get credit for the intro, 100-level course, which could save them tuition or being bored for a semester. Ivies generally don't allow this and only use APs for credentialling.

The point of APs is credentialling for public school kids, where the quality of teaching may be more uneven and colleges want assurance that A in AP Statistics reflects a solid understanding of the material.

Result: A kid who scores 4 or 5 on an AP will send in their scores, TO or not.

Rather than just repeating this claim over and over, it would probably be more effective if you could get state flagships to make public statements explaining this. Because right now many of them say they give bumps for APs, or use your school’s weighted GPA. And no one is going to trust some anonymous comment on DCUM when the schools themselves are issuing official statements that say the opposite.

This is the heart of the problem these kids are facing, by the way: the privates are so optimized for getting hooked kids into T15s that when a kid strikes out in the T30 and decides to go for a state flagship, they wind up falling pretty far down the list.

Nobody is disputing that a 4 or 5 on an AP will give your kid a bump. The whole point is that colleges use it to make sure your kid's A in chem is for real--if your kid scores high on AP chem, it's clear they actually know the material, regardless of the quality of the class or the teacher. So that's a strawman right there.

So have your kid take the AP test even if their class wasn't labelled "AP." Although a tutor might help, I know kids who have done this, and done well, even without tutoring--like my kid. It was actually only a few week's work to figure out the material that wasn't covered in the class but could be on the AP test. Buy the relevant AP test prep book. Maybe it's too late for private school kids in this round, but going forward private school families might consider this.

You misunderstand me. Flagships are admitting by formula, or at least using a formula to narrow the pool. And that formula includes GPA. And for many schools, that GPA is either the weighted GPA as calculated by your high school (Georgia does it that way) or a recalculated GPA that weights for an official AP course, but not for a private school’s proprietary “advanced” course (the UC schools do it that way). Yes, the exam scores will help too—if the kid’s private school GPA is high enough to make it past that first cut.

If this is true (and I'm not 100% convinced), then you need to bring it up with your private school admin. They'd need to develop a credible way to weight some classes higher. That is, weigh the advanced math classes higher, don't just say "we're Sidwell."

Probably more effective for an unhooked family to just choose a school that does this already—Holton, for example—or a school like Visi or Burke or WIS that offers AP/IB courses.

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a 10th grader at GDS. I don’t particularly obsess over top 10 schools but an admit to a top 50 would be nice.
Do parents who have just gone through the college application experience recommend we hire an outside college consultant?
My kid will not have a legacy or URM advantage

The only thing an outside consultant will do is act as a filter between you and your kid in terms of setting deadlines for essay drafts etc. They are not there to magically get your kid into a school and will have access to the same resources in terms of school choices as you have (Fiske etc)