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Anonymous wrote:So what is the line between just being terrible and plagiarizing?

Funny you ask that. I am one of the published authors who posted above and i just so happened to be turning in a MS this week and I ran this by my editor — what would you think if i included a verbatim private FB post in my book, and didn’t tell the original author? Would that be cool.

She laughed hard, and then said, “But seriously, no. Don’t do that.”

No legit author in their right mind is confused about this.

But then why are SO many writers on Twitter brushing this off or justifying it? It honestly blows my mind. I thought plagiarism was like the number one thing to NOT do, as writers?

For the purposes of this question — there are two kinds of writers. The first are “literary” writers whose heroes are Celeste Ng etc., most of whom will never publish a novel, but live off weird teaching gigs, day jobs, fellowships, and will spend their “careers” writing short stories that no one but other MFAs will read. They are a closed network, based out of few cities — Brooklyn, Boston, L.A, the Iowa writers workshop, Columbia MFA. They are a rarified bunch and very defensive about the fact that no one wants to pay money for their writing. There are so few shots at making it as an MFA writer that they are cutthroat competitive and very petty and resentful. So their currency is elitism, snobbism, classism. These are the writers in Twitter.

The second kind of writers are “commercial” writers, who get books deals, produce regularly, often collaborate with Netflix or other TV/Movie houses. The most successful of these are household names — think Lianne Moriarty or Michael Connelly — and most are not on Twitter and def.not part of this scene. They are “working” writers with deadlines and contracts and while their is much fellowship within genres, whether it is mystery, sci-if, women’s fiction, romance, thrillers . . . There is none of this clubbiness or exclusivity. In fact, in genre fiction, there are conferences where authors mix with fans, teach classes, help newbies etc. It’s a completely different vibe b/c working writers let the marketplace be the judge of a good story, while MFA writers think they are the ultimate judges.

Guess which type loves the petty toxic swampland of Twitter?

As Dennis Lehane put it, mystery writers are a great bunch who send the elevator down when they get to the top. And it’s true.

Your last sentence - do you mean that mystery writers (who I presume may belong to the second category of commercial writers?) are more generous?

Anonymous wrote:“Our misogyny” is such a better phrasing than “I call my former student names, and pretend both sides were equal in power and in bad acts.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/stevealmondjoy/status/1447536745923424260

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Someone said something, at least.

Ha! “Kindly ask your friends not to write to us.”

Love it.

I looked up Deborah Porter. She is a beautiful woman and clearly a badass! She must have been very righteously pissed. This email is such a slap, from the first-name familiarity, to the lack of salutation, to the "Kindly," which I didn't notice at first. This email says "Step back b!!ch." It is about concise as it can be, and includes a threat. It is master!

Anonymous wrote:“Our misogyny” is such a better phrasing than “I call my former student names, and pretend both sides were equal in power and in bad acts.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/stevealmondjoy/status/1447536745923424260

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone said something, at least.

Ha! “Kindly ask your friends not to write to us.”

Love it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone said something, at least.

Ha! “Kindly ask your friends not to write to us.”

Love it.

Anonymous wrote:Can’t remember if this was posted upthread, but this person has done a fantastic job of pulling together the timeline and all the court docs: https://piperbookblog.com/bad-art-friend-the-case-files-reveal-lying-perjury-and-deceit/

Also, I’m loving Dorland’s attorney from what I’ve read so far.

Anonymous wrote:

It seems like Dawn has begun slowly emerging from her shell on Twitter. And of course one of her first tweets is to forgive someone who shit talked her on the platform. I don't know if she'll be making any more responses, but... damn.

I hope she feels vindicated. I hope she feels some of the well of support that has been drawn up around her in some corners of the internet. I don't know why I feel so personally about this, ugh. Maybe I need to step away.

Anonymous wrote:Someone said something, at least.

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Anonymous wrote:@kidneygate’s chronology of the emails between Dawn and Sonya is more damning than I can even describe. I’m not on Twitter but anyone on and interested: can you share broadly?

https://mobile.twitter.com/kidneygate/status/1447625724052004864

Wow, Dawn was not badgering her at all. She genuinely talked about why she was confused and hurt because she thought they were friends. Sonya went above and beyond to string her along. It definitely shows a clearer story, not the dramatization in the NYT.

Yeah, I'm pissed at Kolker.

I wonder if he’s connected to Grub Street or the monkeys

Cheryl Strayed’s partner with Dear Sugar taught at Grub Street and she just promoted his “dawww, both sides erred” essay — which he clearly wrote in order to defend himself and Strayed. Dawn Dorland noted in the NYT story that she had written in to Dear Sugar for advice, and they did not respond.

People responding to Strayed aren’t having it.

Strayed is a turd.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CherylStrayed/status/1447579114794147840

Deeply disappointing. And I thought she put herself out there as a real truth-teller.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@kidneygate’s chronology of the emails between Dawn and Sonya is more damning than I can even describe. I’m not on Twitter but anyone on and interested: can you share broadly?

https://mobile.twitter.com/kidneygate/status/1447625724052004864

Wow, Dawn was not badgering her at all. She genuinely talked about why she was confused and hurt because she thought they were friends. Sonya went above and beyond to string her along. It definitely shows a clearer story, not the dramatization in the NYT.

Yeah, I'm pissed at Kolker.

I wonder if he’s connected to Grub Street or the monkeys

Cheryl Strayed’s partner with Dear Sugar taught at Grub Street and she just promoted his “dawww, both sides erred” essay — which he clearly wrote in order to defend himself and Strayed. Dawn Dorland noted in the NYT story that she had written in to Dear Sugar for advice, and they did not respond.

People responding to Strayed aren’t having it.

Strayed is a turd.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CherylStrayed/status/1447579114794147840