Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At that point they will green-shirt.

I can't understand parents who green-shirt. It's almost as if they want their kid to do less well.

Not if the kid is advanced socially, academically, emotionally, mentally and physically. If you have an anxious kid who is struggling with normal social interactions, academics, physical dexterity, mental acuity etc it makes sense to redshirt them. Similarly if you have a high performing, confident, high IQ and EQ kids in a stable and happy family then they need to be green-shirted so that they can get the instruction and socialization for which they are ready.

I have never seen a green-shirted kid do poorly as most of them are high achievers.

The red-shirted kids on the other hand are perpetually behind, insecure and odd.

I've watched these threads for years, and I've always wondered just who exactly these anti-redshirters are. They exist in an imaginary reality, they can't do basic math, they can't read statistics or studies, they are viciously mean, wildly socially awkward, and with clearly strained and challenged family relationships.

And then I realized: they are exactly what they accuse redshirted children (children!) of being. They are like much of Qanon, actually fighting the demons in the mirror.

It's sad. They deserve compassion.

I’m a NP, haven’t said anything in this debate yet. But here I am, the parent of a (gasp!) a kid who skipped a grade. Both parents are Very well educated, happily married and employed, our family is well adjusted, social and stable. We read the “studies” that are listed here. I don’t live in an imaginary reality, I’m not mean or socially awkward. But, My kid is wackadoodle smart and it was the right thing to do.

I have friends who redshirted, lots actually, and never once made a big deal about this. When it comes up, I just say “X is young for their grade.” The only place I see this kind of vitriol is on DCUM

Every kid is different and every parent does what they think is right for their kid. Period.

This entire thread is just evidence that parenting has essentially become a competitive sport for some people.

When did “average” and “normal” become so vilified. The numbers don’t lie, the majority of kids (maybe even “gasp” your kid) will fall somewhere in the middle of the pack. For the most part, the superstars were kind of just born that way. The same can be said for the kids who will always struggle in school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know some people refuse to believe it, but the older kids end up doing better in school. It's not surprising that people who can swing redshirting do it.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/18/544483397/oldest-kids-in-class-do-better-even-through-college

Yeah, but do these kids really feel satisfied with their victories knowing they had a massive advantage over their competitors? If you won a race on a motorcycle when everyone else was riding bicycles, would you truly be able to feel proud of yourself? I know that I’d much rather do okay in something playing by the rules than excel by cheating.

How is it cheating when it is explicitly allowed?

Massive advantage? What is the advantage? Because according to so many people here kids will be mired down in insecurity and anxiety because they think their parents think they are stupid. Pick a lane.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m redshirting my July daughter

Ditto. She's 4 and my youngest child and she's not happy about that. She's always the youngest in the class too and she's more immature. Another year of childhood seems like a great gift to give her.

She isn't less mature. You are not comparing her to her actual peers and kids a year younger. You are doing it for her, not you. You aren't giving her an extra year of childhood. You are taking away a year of being an adult and forcing them to continue being a child.

It's not robbing them of a year of adulthood, it's making sure they are as ready and a prepared as they can be to get the most out of their education. It's not a race.

I agree that education isn't a race. You know how you sometimes hear about a 12-or-13-year-old heading off to college? It's the parents of those kids who view education as a race, not the parents of the kids starting college a few weeks shy of their 18th birthdays.

So, if I have a late August vs. late September child/birthday, what exactly is the difference between a month? You may be robbing them of a year of adulthood by forcing them to be kids an extra year when they are 18/adults.

You have only a few years of childhood, it's precious and fleeting, but decades of being an adult. Who needs another year of working, bills, taxes, and stress? Most people given the choice would likely prefer another year of being a carefree child.

Speak for yourself, but I felt embarrassed about still being in "childhood" when most of my peers had moved on to "adulthood".

Cool, but none of the redshirters I have ever known have felt that way. People are different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know some people refuse to believe it, but the older kids end up doing better in school. It's not surprising that people who can swing redshirting do it.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/18/544483397/oldest-kids-in-class-do-better-even-through-college

Yeah, but do these kids really feel satisfied with their victories knowing they had a massive advantage over their competitors? If you won a race on a motorcycle when everyone else was riding bicycles, would you truly be able to feel proud of yourself? I know that I’d much rather do okay in something playing by the rules than excel by cheating.

How is it cheating when it is explicitly allowed?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m redshirting my July daughter

Ditto. She's 4 and my youngest child and she's not happy about that. She's always the youngest in the class too and she's more immature. Another year of childhood seems like a great gift to give her.

She isn't less mature. You are not comparing her to her actual peers and kids a year younger. You are doing it for her, not you. You aren't giving her an extra year of childhood. You are taking away a year of being an adult and forcing them to continue being a child.

It's not robbing them of a year of adulthood, it's making sure they are as ready and a prepared as they can be to get the most out of their education. It's not a race.

I agree that education isn't a race. You know how you sometimes hear about a 12-or-13-year-old heading off to college? It's the parents of those kids who view education as a race, not the parents of the kids starting college a few weeks shy of their 18th birthdays.

So, if I have a late August vs. late September child/birthday, what exactly is the difference between a month? You may be robbing them of a year of adulthood by forcing them to be kids an extra year when they are 18/adults.

You have only a few years of childhood, it's precious and fleeting, but decades of being an adult. Who needs another year of working, bills, taxes, and stress? Most people given the choice would likely prefer another year of being a carefree child.

Speak for yourself, but I felt embarrassed about still being in "childhood" when most of my peers had moved on to "adulthood".

Anonymous wrote:I know some people refuse to believe it, but the older kids end up doing better in school. It's not surprising that people who can swing redshirting do it.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/18/544483397/oldest-kids-in-class-do-better-even-through-college

Yeah, but do these kids really feel satisfied with their victories knowing they had a massive advantage over their competitors? If you won a race on a motorcycle when everyone else was riding bicycles, would you truly be able to feel proud of yourself? I know that I’d much rather do okay in something playing by the rules than excel by cheating.

Every so often I come to check in on this thread to make sure it's still as insane as usual.

Never change, redshirt people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 6 year old (August 2015) is going to 1st Grade, and so are his two cousins July 2014 (redshirted) and October 2014 (missed cutoff). They're all about the same size and same level for reading and math.

My kid knows he's the youngest in his class, but he's doing well in school and is social skills are good.

I think he would have been at a disadvantage doing another year of preschool or Kindergarten. All this to say, each kid is different and you can't go by statistics for what's best for your individual child.

First of all, I was asking about kids born between October and December. A kid with an August birthday is pretty close to the middle of the pack, albeit still on the young side. Secondly, as well as he's doing, you do realize that he'd be doing even better had he been redshirted. A kid with a January birthday who did poorly would've done even worse had they started a year earlier. A kid with a December birthday who excelled would've done even better had they started a year later. Any individual would do better starting later than earlier.

I'm pro redshirting, but this is ridiculous. I don't usually see DCUM pro redshirters who are as ridiculous as the DCUM anti redshirts, but you have managed.

Kids between Oct-Dec are the oldest kids in most US classrooms. If you want to know about kids with those birthdays being redshirted you're in the wrong place. Or at least accept that the redshirted birthdays mean late summer to most people.

The bolded is what was and is ridiculous. Don't be absurd.

What is absurd is I think that PP is the crazy who is obsessed with the calendar year being the correct and only way school admissions work. I don't think you are replying to an actual concerned parent.

We already all know that DCUMs anti-redshirt posters are dim nutcases. But you don't need to go to their level. Traditionally on DCUM, pro redshirting posters have been much more rational and level headed than the anti redshirts, but the bolded is as irrational as natural law lady or the other fruitcake anti redshirters. What you wrote is simply not true.

I'm not the PP who made that comment. What I'm telling you is I think that person is the same as the natural law poster. Both are obsessed with the Dec 31 cut off. Why is the PP talking about Oct-Dec birthdays if not the same person?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 6 year old (August 2015) is going to 1st Grade, and so are his two cousins July 2014 (redshirted) and October 2014 (missed cutoff). They're all about the same size and same level for reading and math.

My kid knows he's the youngest in his class, but he's doing well in school and is social skills are good.

I think he would have been at a disadvantage doing another year of preschool or Kindergarten. All this to say, each kid is different and you can't go by statistics for what's best for your individual child.

First of all, I was asking about kids born between October and December. A kid with an August birthday is pretty close to the middle of the pack, albeit still on the young side. Secondly, as well as he's doing, you do realize that he'd be doing even better had he been redshirted. A kid with a January birthday who did poorly would've done even worse had they started a year earlier. A kid with a December birthday who excelled would've done even better had they started a year later. Any individual would do better starting later than earlier.

I'm pro redshirting, but this is ridiculous. I don't usually see DCUM pro redshirters who are as ridiculous as the DCUM anti redshirts, but you have managed.

Kids between Oct-Dec are the oldest kids in most US classrooms. If you want to know about kids with those birthdays being redshirted you're in the wrong place. Or at least accept that the redshirted birthdays mean late summer to most people.

The bolded is what was and is ridiculous. Don't be absurd.

What is absurd is I think that PP is the crazy who is obsessed with the calendar year being the correct and only way school admissions work. I don't think you are replying to an actual concerned parent.

We already all know that DCUMs anti-redshirt posters are dim nutcases. But you don't need to go to their level. Traditionally on DCUM, pro redshirting posters have been much more rational and level headed than the anti redshirts, but the bolded is as irrational as natural law lady or the other fruitcake anti redshirters. What you wrote is simply not true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 6 year old (August 2015) is going to 1st Grade, and so are his two cousins July 2014 (redshirted) and October 2014 (missed cutoff). They're all about the same size and same level for reading and math.

My kid knows he's the youngest in his class, but he's doing well in school and is social skills are good.

I think he would have been at a disadvantage doing another year of preschool or Kindergarten. All this to say, each kid is different and you can't go by statistics for what's best for your individual child.

First of all, I was asking about kids born between October and December. A kid with an August birthday is pretty close to the middle of the pack, albeit still on the young side. Secondly, as well as he's doing, you do realize that he'd be doing even better had he been redshirted. A kid with a January birthday who did poorly would've done even worse had they started a year earlier. A kid with a December birthday who excelled would've done even better had they started a year later. Any individual would do better starting later than earlier.

I'm pro redshirting, but this is ridiculous. I don't usually see DCUM pro redshirters who are as ridiculous as the DCUM anti redshirts, but you have managed.

Kids between Oct-Dec are the oldest kids in most US classrooms. If you want to know about kids with those birthdays being redshirted you're in the wrong place. Or at least accept that the redshirted birthdays mean late summer to most people.

The bolded is what was and is ridiculous. Don't be absurd.

What is absurd is I think that PP is the crazy who is obsessed with the calendar year being the correct and only way school admissions work. I don't think you are replying to an actual concerned parent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 6 year old (August 2015) is going to 1st Grade, and so are his two cousins July 2014 (redshirted) and October 2014 (missed cutoff). They're all about the same size and same level for reading and math.

My kid knows he's the youngest in his class, but he's doing well in school and is social skills are good.

I think he would have been at a disadvantage doing another year of preschool or Kindergarten. All this to say, each kid is different and you can't go by statistics for what's best for your individual child.

First of all, I was asking about kids born between October and December. A kid with an August birthday is pretty close to the middle of the pack, albeit still on the young side. Secondly, as well as he's doing, you do realize that he'd be doing even better had he been redshirted. A kid with a January birthday who did poorly would've done even worse had they started a year earlier. A kid with a December birthday who excelled would've done even better had they started a year later. Any individual would do better starting later than earlier.

I'm pro redshirting, but this is ridiculous. I don't usually see DCUM pro redshirters who are as ridiculous as the DCUM anti redshirts, but you have managed.

Kids between Oct-Dec are the oldest kids in most US classrooms. If you want to know about kids with those birthdays being redshirted you're in the wrong place. Or at least accept that the redshirted birthdays mean late summer to most people.

The bolded is what was and is ridiculous. Don't be absurd.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 6 year old (August 2015) is going to 1st Grade, and so are his two cousins July 2014 (redshirted) and October 2014 (missed cutoff). They're all about the same size and same level for reading and math.

My kid knows he's the youngest in his class, but he's doing well in school and is social skills are good.

I think he would have been at a disadvantage doing another year of preschool or Kindergarten. All this to say, each kid is different and you can't go by statistics for what's best for your individual child.

First of all, I was asking about kids born between October and December. A kid with an August birthday is pretty close to the middle of the pack, albeit still on the young side. Secondly, as well as he's doing, you do realize that he'd be doing even better had he been redshirted. A kid with a January birthday who did poorly would've done even worse had they started a year earlier. A kid with a December birthday who excelled would've done even better had they started a year later. Any individual would do better starting later than earlier.

I'm pro redshirting, but this is ridiculous. I don't usually see DCUM pro redshirters who are as ridiculous as the DCUM anti redshirts, but you have managed.

Kids between Oct-Dec are the oldest kids in most US classrooms. If you want to know about kids with those birthdays being redshirted you're in the wrong place. Or at least accept that the redshirted birthdays mean late summer to most people.

So - what difference does time make?

There is a pretty good widespread experience example that exists with respect to physical maturity in the United States.

Starting in 2017, US Soccer mandated that birth year designations would apply starting with a January 1 cutoff as opposed to the previous cutoff date of August 1. The August 1 date was used in the US because it tied with school grades. All other countries were using January 1. This difference was typically thought not to be all that relevant except that, in practice, it actually was relevant. Very, very much so.

A kid born on August 1, prior to 2017, was a year older than a teammate born on July 31 of that same year. Who cares right? If there has to be a date cut off then someone can be 364 days older than a teammate born the same year. Sure. But what the change exposed was what national team coaches already knew as all US youth teams playing internationally had to comply with the January 1 cutoff date.

What they knew - and the reason why the date was changed - is that the August 1 date screwed up our national teams. Kids - and by “kids” I mean teenagers and up when national team play kicks in - who had “good” birthdays in January and February for international play were not as advanced in the US because of the August 1 date cutoff. They were not making the top teams, getting the best coaching, because they were not the best players when compared to teammates who had August and September birthdates.

This was a big enough issue that for 4 years prior to switching the cutoff date, the USSF mandated that the then in place national youth identification program use 2 different groupings in making up teams. One group would be January through June birthdates and the other July through December.

It really is not rocket science. The youth national team coaches were dealing with the same facts that every teacher contends with in class. The older a kid is - the better they will do. When you are looking to put together a group of 50 of the best 15 year old players in the country - they are not going to have randomly spread birthdays. It was working out that about 60% of the national team players were born in the first 3 months of the year. About 25% from the second 3 months. The rest spread over the last 6 months.

Yes - pretty much any kindergarten teacher in the country could have told them that would be the case. But, until the actual registration date was changed you could not get the consistent development for the players. With an August 1 date, the “best” players were going to be the kids born in August and September. They would, in turn, get better coaching by being on higher level teams, and play more in key positions. Do this consistently from age 8 to 13 and when you start looking to form national youth teams at 14 - you are going to have some issues competing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 6 year old (August 2015) is going to 1st Grade, and so are his two cousins July 2014 (redshirted) and October 2014 (missed cutoff). They're all about the same size and same level for reading and math.

My kid knows he's the youngest in his class, but he's doing well in school and is social skills are good.

I think he would have been at a disadvantage doing another year of preschool or Kindergarten. All this to say, each kid is different and you can't go by statistics for what's best for your individual child.

First of all, I was asking about kids born between October and December. A kid with an August birthday is pretty close to the middle of the pack, albeit still on the young side. Secondly, as well as he's doing, you do realize that he'd be doing even better had he been redshirted. A kid with a January birthday who did poorly would've done even worse had they started a year earlier. A kid with a December birthday who excelled would've done even better had they started a year later. Any individual would do better starting later than earlier.

I'm pro redshirting, but this is ridiculous. I don't usually see DCUM pro redshirters who are as ridiculous as the DCUM anti redshirts, but you have managed.