Anonymous
06/15/2020 15:20
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
We could say the same thing about grocery store workers, Costco, Lowe's, Wal-mart, etc. Yet there they are, working since day one.
I would totally take the statement if it came from an essential worker. But I will not see it as fair if someone who is taking on little risk themselves says of course students have to be back at school. I also do not see it as fair when people say there is risk inherent in working with children so we all should have known this before entering the profession. No, this is a different degree of risk that no one could have foreseen.
If parents think the risk is low to send their kids to school, I don't understand why you think the risk is so high. Those kids go back home as I'm sure you know.
As a specials teacher I teach and interact with approximately 120 kids a day. That is 120 times different from parents who deal with one child's germs.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 15:19
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
Since you sound pretty co go cer about this, care to show me some studies? Because other research is showing that transmission is not as high among kids. Schools are open all over Europe, you should be able to find sone data to support your hypothesis.
They really aren't open all over Europe. Here's an article about a few places that tentatively reopened with many, many restrictions, with varying degrees of success: https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherrim/2020/06/12/what-international-school-reopenings-say-about-nycs-tentative-plan-for-the-fall/#3138f00050b4
There is so much hostility toward teachers on here. So clearly people will not be listening to teachers. Maybe they will listen to public health authorities.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 15:15
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
We could say the same thing about grocery store workers, Costco, Lowe's, Wal-mart, etc. Yet there they are, working since day one.
I would totally take the statement if it came from an essential worker. But I will not see it as fair if someone who is taking on little risk themselves says of course students have to be back at school. I also do not see it as fair when people say there is risk inherent in working with children so we all should have known this before entering the profession. No, this is a different degree of risk that no one could have foreseen.
Maybe we should just do in-person school for essential worker kids and distance learning for the rest. That way fewer kids at the school but the doctors etc. don’t need to worry about quitting or otherwise to homeschool their kids . Lots of room for compromise here.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 15:15
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
We could say the same thing about grocery store workers, Costco, Lowe's, Wal-mart, etc. Yet there they are, working since day one.
I would totally take the statement if it came from an essential worker. But I will not see it as fair if someone who is taking on little risk themselves says of course students have to be back at school. I also do not see it as fair when people say there is risk inherent in working with children so we all should have known this before entering the profession. No, this is a different degree of risk that no one could have foreseen.
If parents think the risk is low to send their kids to school, I don't understand why you think the risk is so high. Those kids go back home as I'm sure you know.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 14:55
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
We could say the same thing about grocery store workers, Costco, Lowe's, Wal-mart, etc. Yet there they are, working since day one.
I would totally take the statement if it came from an essential worker. But I will not see it as fair if someone who is taking on little risk themselves says of course students have to be back at school. I also do not see it as fair when people say there is risk inherent in working with children so we all should have known this before entering the profession. No, this is a different degree of risk that no one could have foreseen.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 14:34
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
Since you sound pretty cogo cer about this, care to show me some studies? Because other research is showing that transmission is not as high among kids. Schools are open all over Europe, you should be able to find sone data to support your hypothesis.
I'm a teacher in England and my school never reopened after we shut down on March 20. I have friends in schools that have reopened, and they report that the new measures mean there isn't much actual teaching: far from 'normal'. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Wow. I didn't know teachers in England follow this forum!
Very dull there these days.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 14:29
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
Since you sound pretty cogo cer about this, care to show me some studies? Because other research is showing that transmission is not as high among kids. Schools are open all over Europe, you should be able to find sone data to support your hypothesis.
I'm a teacher in England and my school never reopened after we shut down on March 20. I have friends in schools that have reopened, and they report that the new measures mean there isn't much actual teaching: far from 'normal'. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Wow. I didn't know teachers in England follow this forum!
Anonymous
06/15/2020 14:19
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
Since you sound pretty cogo cer about this, care to show me some studies? Because other research is showing that transmission is not as high among kids. Schools are open all over Europe, you should be able to find sone data to support your hypothesis.
I'm a teacher in England and my school never reopened after we shut down on March 20. I have friends in schools that have reopened, and they report that the new measures mean there isn't much actual teaching: far from 'normal'. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 14:00
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
We could say the same thing about grocery store workers, Costco, Lowe's, Wal-mart, etc. Yet there they are, working since day one.
But they weren’t vilified for complaining that they were in danger. Everyone applauded them for wanting protection. People forget that a major strike by grocery workers at Safeway was narrowly averted. People are also ignoring the collective action by Instacart and other delivery services.
Only teachers are being called whiny for having concerns.
Teachers haven't even stepped foot in their classrooms and are whining. Some were whining right here about going back to their classrooms - under health and safety protocols - to clean out from the past school year. No students, timed so minimal contact with others, and mask wearing. But that was too much. I've been to my office under those same circumstances, I can't do our office's payroll from home so I go into my office once a week. And I'm not crying about it.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 14:00
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Agree with all the PPs that teachers (and everyone) need to adjust their risk expectations if they want to work. My employer closed the office this spring, but has made it clear that we all need to plan to be back after Labor Day. I work in downtown DC in a 12 story office building, take the metro, and if I don’t show up to work I won’t have a job anymore. DH in the same situation. There is more risk to lots of people’s jobs right now, even if you aren’t on the front lines like some health care workers or grocery store employees.
Does anyone really think that if we start with DL this fall things will get better over and we will be “normal” F2F by Jan 2021? Realistically, even if we get a vaccine by Jan 2021, it won’t be produced and distributed at scale until 2022, and that’s a best-case scenario. If DL continues for that long or longer, a lot of parents with means will pull their kids out of public schools and find another solution - private or home schooling, which will result in severe budget cuts and decline in school quality.
Also massive inequality. The teachers I know, especially those who work with disadvantaged kids or reading specialists who give extra help to those who need it, are super concerned about their students falling way behind. Some of them also realize that if DL continues into the fall, their will be cuts. They want to go back.
DH’s office will be back to 100% staffing in July. Small cubicles, recirculated air, normally lots of international travel that will resume eventually. Some people with health risks have decided it’s not worth it to them so they are quitting with the hope they can come back in a year or two. Seems like an option for the vulnerable teachers.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 13:57
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
We could say the same thing about grocery store workers, Costco, Lowe's, Wal-mart, etc. Yet there they are, working since day one.
But they weren’t vilified for complaining that they were in danger. Everyone applauded them for wanting protection. People forget that a major strike by grocery workers at Safeway was narrowly averted. People are also ignoring the collective action by Instacart and other delivery services.
Only teachers are being called whiny for having concerns.
Correct, they weren't vilified. Instead, they were ordered to work even if they were sick or quarantined, they were willfully exposed to continued risk, they were blamed for their own infections, and their employers were shielded from liability.
https://www.propublica.org/article/emails-reveal-chaos-as-meatpacking-companies-fought-health-agencies-over-covid-19-outbreaks-in-their-plants
Anonymous
06/15/2020 13:54
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
We could say the same thing about grocery store workers, Costco, Lowe's, Wal-mart, etc. Yet there they are, working since day one.
But they weren’t vilified for complaining that they were in danger. Everyone applauded them for wanting protection. People forget that a major strike by grocery workers at Safeway was narrowly averted. People are also ignoring the collective action by Instacart and other delivery services.
Only teachers are being called whiny for having concerns.
So demand specific PPE and other protections. Christ my 65yo former smoker dad has worked during this entire pandemic with the public and has not uttered one complaint. Some of you need to buck up or get out.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 13:52
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
Since you sound pretty co go cer about this, care to show me some studies? Because other research is showing that transmission is not as high among kids. Schools are open all over Europe, you should be able to find sone data to support your hypothesis.
*convinced* damn autocorrect!
Anonymous
06/15/2020 13:52
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
Since you sound pretty co go cer about this, care to show me some studies? Because other research is showing that transmission is not as high among kids. Schools are open all over Europe, you should be able to find sone data to support your hypothesis.
Anonymous
06/15/2020 13:50
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This language about teachers wanting a "free pass" is really not fair if it's coming from people whose jobs entail working in private offices or cubicles with masks on. Teachers absolutely face higher risk than your average worker, and we need to acknowledge that if we are going to make this work.
We could say the same thing about grocery store workers, Costco, Lowe's, Wal-mart, etc. Yet there they are, working since day one.
But they weren’t vilified for complaining that they were in danger. Everyone applauded them for wanting protection. People forget that a major strike by grocery workers at Safeway was narrowly averted. People are also ignoring the collective action by Instacart and other delivery services.
Only teachers are being called whiny for having concerns.