Anonymous
08/04/2017 18:49
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
There was a poster several pages back who said young white males were "harmed" by AA. Maybe that PP can explain what he meant by harmed.
That was me.
By "harm," I mean pay a price for affirmative action policies. It's simple math. Let's say a med school, for example, has X number of slots and have determined that they want 15% of the entering class to be black (since 15% of the broader population is black.) In order to accomplish that, they need to drop their GPA cut-off to 3.3. No white male would get in with that stat and instead needs a 3.6.
Unfortunately (for the white guy), he earned a 3.5. He's rejected. If slots didn't need to open up for black kids with 3.3, in order to meet AA goals, the school could drop down to 3.5 for everyone, race not a factor, and the white kid would have passed the cut-off. This can play out at med schools throughout the country, and he has to give up his dream of being a doctor. I've seen this happen in two instances with bright, caring young white men.
Whether this sacrifice is worth it to have a diverse population among doctors is a separate area of discussion. But you can't deny that the white kid paid a price as a result of affirmative action policies.
Given the number of medical schools, I'd have to suspect that an applicant who gets rejected from every one he applies to must have something on his application that raises alarm bells for the admissions committes.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 18:44
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
Isn't that why people are up in arms, because black kids are taking white kids' spots? So the implication is white kids aren't going to college.
Or is this all about being angry that some white kids end up going to their safety schools because (supposedly) black kids took the spots in their dream schools?
What about the white kids on the lower end of the SAT scores/grade point average spectrum who gain admittance to schools - why aren't they viewed as taking spots from "more deserving" white kids with higher scores and grades?
Anonymous
08/04/2017 18:33
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
There was a poster several pages back who said young white males were "harmed" by AA. Maybe that PP can explain what he meant by harmed.
That was me.
By "harm," I mean pay a price for affirmative action policies. It's simple math. Let's say a med school, for example, has X number of slots and have determined that they want 15% of the entering class to be black (since 15% of the broader population is black.) In order to accomplish that, they need to drop their GPA cut-off to 3.3. No white male would get in with that stat and instead needs a 3.6.
Unfortunately (for the white guy), he earned a 3.5. He's rejected. If slots didn't need to open up for black kids with 3.3, in order to meet AA goals, the school could drop down to 3.5 for everyone, race not a factor, and the white kid would have passed the cut-off. This can play out at med schools throughout the country, and he has to give up his dream of being a doctor. I've seen this happen in two instances with bright, caring young white men.
Whether this sacrifice is worth it to have a diverse population among doctors is a separate area of discussion. But you can't deny that the white kid paid a price as a result of affirmative action policies.
But what actually happens is that all the Asian kids with a 3.6 get accepted and the white kid with a 3.5 does not.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 18:32
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
There was a poster several pages back who said young white males were "harmed" by AA. Maybe that PP can explain what he meant by harmed.
That was me.
By "harm," I mean pay a price for affirmative action policies. It's simple math. Let's say a med school, for example, has X number of slots and have determined that they want 15% of the entering class to be black (since 15% of the broader population is black.) In order to accomplish that, they need to drop their GPA cut-off to 3.3. No white male would get in with that stat and instead needs a 3.6.
Unfortunately (for the white guy), he earned a 3.5. He's rejected. If slots didn't need to open up for black kids with 3.3, in order to meet AA goals, the school could drop down to 3.5 for everyone, race not a factor, and the white kid would have passed the cut-off. This can play out at med schools throughout the country, and he has to give up his dream of being a doctor. I've seen this happen in two instances with bright, caring young white men.
Whether this sacrifice is worth it to have a diverse population among doctors is a separate area of discussion. But you can't deny that the white kid paid a price as a result of affirmative action policies.
That's an interesting hypothetical, but in fact last year only 7% of students starting med school were black. So even with affirmative action, we can't get even close to a representative number of black students in med school.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf
The reason they couldn't get to the 15% is because there needs to be a hard cut-off at some point. You can't, for example, lower admissions standards to 2.8 (for blacks) in order to reach the goal. Otherwise, you are admitting students who are likely to fail the program. Still doesn't negate the point that when you have a finite number of slots with lower standards for Group A and higher standards for Group B, Group B pays a price.
I am also the PP who strongly supports AA policies, but based on income. This is more fair. And, as I've pointed out, if blacks are disproportionately poor compared to whites, they will still be benefiting from AA.
How do you propose you can do the income based admission? Based on whose income? How many years of income? Don't you include assets and stocks ? You see why this is an issue. This leads to a rabbit hole with many options to cheat the system. How do you prevent a wealthy son whose parents are divorced but taking only mother's much lower income and ignoring wealthy father's millions in the application? How do you prevent someone having big assets and lower income from abusing the system? There are many scenarios that I can think of. You can't cheat race as easily.
Also no matter how many times some one brings this up you want to ignore that one person's admission is not another person's rejection automatically and directly. There are more factors than such a simplistic zero some scenario.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 17:08
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
There was a poster several pages back who said young white males were "harmed" by AA. Maybe that PP can explain what he meant by harmed.
That was me.
By "harm," I mean pay a price for affirmative action policies. It's simple math. Let's say a med school, for example, has X number of slots and have determined that they want 15% of the entering class to be black (since 15% of the broader population is black.) In order to accomplish that, they need to drop their GPA cut-off to 3.3. No white male would get in with that stat and instead needs a 3.6.
Unfortunately (for the white guy), he earned a 3.5. He's rejected. If slots didn't need to open up for black kids with 3.3, in order to meet AA goals, the school could drop down to 3.5 for everyone, race not a factor, and the white kid would have passed the cut-off. This can play out at med schools throughout the country, and he has to give up his dream of being a doctor. I've seen this happen in two instances with bright, caring young white men.
Whether this sacrifice is worth it to have a diverse population among doctors is a separate area of discussion. But you can't deny that the white kid paid a price as a result of affirmative action policies.
That's an interesting hypothetical, but in fact last year only 7% of students starting med school were black. So even with affirmative action, we can't get even close to a representative number of black students in med school.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf
The reason they couldn't get to the 15% is because there needs to be a hard cut-off at some point. You can't, for example, lower admissions standards to 2.8 (for blacks) in order to reach the goal. Otherwise, you are admitting students who are likely to fail the program. Still doesn't negate the point that when you have a finite number of slots with lower standards for Group A and higher standards for Group B, Group B pays a price.
I am also the PP who strongly supports AA policies, but based on income. This is more fair. And, as I've pointed out, if blacks are disproportionately poor compared to whites, they will still be benefiting from AA.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 17:06
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:
That was me.
By "harm," I mean pay a price for affirmative action policies. It's simple math. Let's say a med school, for example, has X number of slots and have determined that they want 15% of the entering class to be black (since 15% of the broader population is black.) In order to accomplish that, they need to drop their GPA cut-off to 3.3. No white male would get in with that stat and instead needs a 3.6.
Unfortunately (for the white guy), he earned a 3.5. He's rejected. If slots didn't need to open up for black kids with 3.3, in order to meet AA goals, the school could drop down to 3.5 for everyone, race not a factor, and the white kid would have passed the cut-off. This can play out at med schools throughout the country, and he has to give up his dream of being a doctor. I've seen this happen in two instances with bright, caring young white men.
Whether this sacrifice is worth it to have a diverse population among doctors is a separate area of discussion. But you can't deny that the white kid paid a price as a result of affirmative action policies.
DP here. And your example is illustrative of the fact that only white males seem to believe that the world is/should be objectively fair and would be if the government just left well enough alone. Pretty much everyone else already knows that most systems are inherently unfair, and so Asian-American women like me simply aren't phased by systems that are explicitly unfair to some people if the reasons make sense. I don't think it's possible for a system to actually be fair, so I'd rather people who have been historically disadvantaged get things tilted a bit in their direction.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 16:52
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
There was a poster several pages back who said young white males were "harmed" by AA. Maybe that PP can explain what he meant by harmed.
That was me.
By "harm," I mean pay a price for affirmative action policies. It's simple math. Let's say a med school, for example, has X number of slots and have determined that they want 15% of the entering class to be black (since 15% of the broader population is black.) In order to accomplish that, they need to drop their GPA cut-off to 3.3. No white male would get in with that stat and instead needs a 3.6.
Unfortunately (for the white guy), he earned a 3.5. He's rejected. If slots didn't need to open up for black kids with 3.3, in order to meet AA goals, the school could drop down to 3.5 for everyone, race not a factor, and the white kid would have passed the cut-off. This can play out at med schools throughout the country, and he has to give up his dream of being a doctor. I've seen this happen in two instances with bright, caring young white men.
Whether this sacrifice is worth it to have a diverse population among doctors is a separate area of discussion. But you can't deny that the white kid paid a price as a result of affirmative action policies.
That's an interesting hypothetical, but in fact last year only 7% of students starting med school were black. So even with affirmative action, we can't get even close to a representative number of black students in med school.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf
Anonymous
08/04/2017 16:44
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
There was a poster several pages back who said young white males were "harmed" by AA. Maybe that PP can explain what he meant by harmed.
That was me.
By "harm," I mean pay a price for affirmative action policies. It's simple math. Let's say a med school, for example, has X number of slots and have determined that they want 15% of the entering class to be black (since 15% of the broader population is black.) In order to accomplish that, they need to drop their GPA cut-off to 3.3. No white male would get in with that stat and instead needs a 3.6.
Unfortunately (for the white guy), he earned a 3.5. He's rejected. If slots didn't need to open up for black kids with 3.3, in order to meet AA goals, the school could drop down to 3.5 for everyone, race not a factor, and the white kid would have passed the cut-off. This can play out at med schools throughout the country, and he has to give up his dream of being a doctor. I've seen this happen in two instances with bright, caring young white men.
Whether this sacrifice is worth it to have a diverse population among doctors is a separate area of discussion. But you can't deny that the white kid paid a price as a result of affirmative action policies.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 16:44
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
Doesn't really matter who said it in this thread...the Department of Justice obviously suspects it so they took action.
No...many of us suspect that this is the administration trying to fire up the campaign rhetoric of "victimizing" Whites. Seems like whenever the administration has a bad week, they always reach back to the campaign trail. Another example is Trump bringing up HRC's emails in WV yesterday.
If that is indeed the case then I would have to agree with the argument that whites are indeed victims...
Victims of the propaganda machine.
So true.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 16:19
Subject: Re:Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:White people just can't make it America anymore. Thanks, Obama. White people need more opportunity or they will be shut out from power.
Except that photo is of older white males, who were not harmed by AA policies (or at least not to the extent it's going on today). We are talking about white teenagers currently, who are rejected from colleges or grad schools in favor of lower-scoring minorities.
Is this why the DOJ is pursuing this? Or some other reason?
Anonymous
08/04/2017 16:15
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
Doesn't really matter who said it in this thread...the Department of Justice obviously suspects it so they took action.
No...many of us suspect that this is the administration trying to fire up the campaign rhetoric of "victimizing" Whites. Seems like whenever the administration has a bad week, they always reach back to the campaign trail. Another example is Trump bringing up HRC's emails in WV yesterday.
If that is indeed the case then I would have to agree with the argument that whites are indeed victims...
Victims of the propaganda machine.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 16:13
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
Doesn't really matter who said it in this thread...the Department of Justice obviously suspects it so they took action.
No...many of us suspect that this is the administration trying to fire up the campaign rhetoric of "victimizing" Whites. Seems like whenever the administration has a bad week, they always reach back to the campaign trail. Another example is Trump bringing up HRC's emails in WV yesterday.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 16:11
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
There was a poster several pages back who said young white males were "harmed" by AA. Maybe that PP can explain what he meant by harmed.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 16:10
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
Doesn't really matter who said it in this thread...the Department of Justice obviously suspects it so they took action.
Oh, I see. You're just making things up.
No I'm just offering my take - I wasn't the PP who asked for the data nor was I the PP who inquired about who said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots.
I'm offering my take on the heart of the matter - the Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division. They're the ones who made the decision to investigate anti-white affirmative action policies so evidently they must think a plethora of white kids are being denied opportunities to further their education.
Anonymous
08/04/2017 16:01
Subject: Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone please post the data that show white students are not going to college because black students took all their spots?
Thanks.
Which poster said white kids aren't going to college because black kids took all their spots?
Doesn't really matter who said it in this thread...the Department of Justice obviously suspects it so they took action.
Oh, I see. You're just making things up.