Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Different PP here. You're seeing our frustration. We're looking for explanations that make sense to us. I know your explanations make sense to many Muslims, but you're not talking to Muslims. You're talking to Western women.

If you don't want to talk to Western women, don't come on DCUM. You apparently expect us to accept your explanations at face value, to say "you're right, my hair is nothing but a sexual weapon, and leaving it uncovered will lead to STDs and higher divorce rates than in the Middle East." But we reject this thinking as sexist, the Quran doesn't mention covering hair, and divorce rates in Muslim countries are actually high (also, young brides and polygamy). So we're looking for something better. If you have a reason that isn't sexist, oppressive, and actually out of step with the Quran, I guarantee most of us will slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Oh, that makes sense!"

You know what? You're right. YOUR hair is not a sexual weapon. Happy now?

Since when does a community and its symbols need to make sense to outsiders? Why is it important to you that Muslim women's reasons for covering meet your approval? They sure aren't clamoring for it. Bringing up STDs and higher divorce rates was a bit clumsy, but a more than fitting response to a 30+pages of galactically dumbshit drivel of "hijabis are brainwashed, gullible and unworthy of respect, what should I tell my DAUGHTER". Who asked you accept that thinking? If you think that's sexist, no one is asking you think that way, and rejecting someone else's thinking is simply outside your powers. You aren't really looking for a reason that makes sense to Muslims, you are looking for a reason that makes sense to you. And your sense is simply not part of this equation.

Also, mighty white of you to pit "Western women" and Muslims. There are Muslims in the West. Some of them are even women, you know. It's possible to be a Muslim Western woman. But perhaps not in your little orderly world.

Calm down cowgirl. This thread is about an article written by two Muslim women. There have been a lot of intelligent comments. If you think it's 30 pages of "drivel," why read it? What a waste of your precious time. It's important to me, as a woman, that women not be thought of as only sexual temptation for men. You may think it has nothing to do with us as "western" women but I am not actually a western woman. I am from the middle east and what Muslims are up to interests me greatly.

I am super-curious how you gonna make it happen - other than typing away here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Different PP here. You're seeing our frustration. We're looking for explanations that make sense to us. I know your explanations make sense to many Muslims, but you're not talking to Muslims. You're talking to Western women.

If you don't want to talk to Western women, don't come on DCUM. You apparently expect us to accept your explanations at face value, to say "you're right, my hair is nothing but a sexual weapon, and leaving it uncovered will lead to STDs and higher divorce rates than in the Middle East." But we reject this thinking as sexist, the Quran doesn't mention covering hair, and divorce rates in Muslim countries are actually high (also, young brides and polygamy). So we're looking for something better. If you have a reason that isn't sexist, oppressive, and actually out of step with the Quran, I guarantee most of us will slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Oh, that makes sense!"

You know what? You're right. YOUR hair is not a sexual weapon. Happy now?

Since when does a community and its symbols need to make sense to outsiders? Why is it important to you that Muslim women's reasons for covering meet your approval? They sure aren't clamoring for it. Bringing up STDs and higher divorce rates was a bit clumsy, but a more than fitting response to a 30+pages of galactically dumbshit drivel of "hijabis are brainwashed, gullible and unworthy of respect, what should I tell my DAUGHTER". Who asked you accept that thinking? If you think that's sexist, no one is asking you think that way, and rejecting someone else's thinking is simply outside your powers. You aren't really looking for a reason that makes sense to Muslims, you are looking for a reason that makes sense to you. And your sense is simply not part of this equation.

Also, mighty white of you to pit "Western women" and Muslims. There are Muslims in the West. Some of them are even women, you know. It's possible to be a Muslim Western woman. But perhaps not in your little orderly world.

Using the phrase "mighty white" is just painful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Different PP here. You're seeing our frustration. We're looking for explanations that make sense to us. I know your explanations make sense to many Muslims, but you're not talking to Muslims. You're talking to Western women.

If you don't want to talk to Western women, don't come on DCUM. You apparently expect us to accept your explanations at face value, to say "you're right, my hair is nothing but a sexual weapon, and leaving it uncovered will lead to STDs and higher divorce rates than in the Middle East." But we reject this thinking as sexist, the Quran doesn't mention covering hair, and divorce rates in Muslim countries are actually high (also, young brides and polygamy). So we're looking for something better. If you have a reason that isn't sexist, oppressive, and actually out of step with the Quran, I guarantee most of us will slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Oh, that makes sense!"

You know what? You're right. YOUR hair is not a sexual weapon. Happy now?

Since when does a community and its symbols need to make sense to outsiders? Why is it important to you that Muslim women's reasons for covering meet your approval? They sure aren't clamoring for it. Bringing up STDs and higher divorce rates was a bit clumsy, but a more than fitting response to a 30+pages of galactically dumbshit drivel of "hijabis are brainwashed, gullible and unworthy of respect, what should I tell my DAUGHTER". Who asked you accept that thinking? If you think that's sexist, no one is asking you think that way, and rejecting someone else's thinking is simply outside your powers. You aren't really looking for a reason that makes sense to Muslims, you are looking for a reason that makes sense to you. And your sense is simply not part of this equation.

Also, mighty white of you to pit "Western women" and Muslims. There are Muslims in the West. Some of them are even women, you know. It's possible to be a Muslim Western woman. But perhaps not in your little orderly world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Hair is not a gender marker? For thousands of years women have worn their hair much longer than men and it has always been a gender identifier.
"What's good for the goose is good for the gander" is typical western perspective. Problem is, it isn't in Islam. Islam says men and women ARE different. As such, there will be some differences in their rights and privileges they are afforded by God. A great many Muslim women accept this. Maybe you simply need to come to terms with this.

Ugh. We've gone over this point. Just because men and women are biologically different does not justify placing onerous conditions on women or limiting their dress to such a degree that no one can see their hair, calves, etc. No one on this thread has established any sort of convincing argument that the hijab is somehow needed due to the differences between men and women.

But if that is what you say Islam is, I guess that is what Islam is. A religion that places rigid and unjustifiable limitations on women.

You've got that backwards. No one set out to convince you. If you don't believe the hijab is needed, then guess what, don't wear one. If you think Islam places rigid and unjustifiable limitations on women, then guess what, don't be a Muslim. You are starting from the position of "I need to be convinced hijab is a good idea", and the truth is that no one cares what you believe. People who want to cover will cover. The opinion of a random DCUM chick is several universes away from relevant.

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Anonymous wrote:This country is doomed if we are so outraged because a woman chooses to wear a piece of fabric on her head. Newsflash: Orthodox Jews or Christian nuns cover their hair too. I have even read research indicating that Islam adopted the practice from nuns because of their piety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Different PP here. You're seeing our frustration. We're looking for explanations that make sense to us. I know your explanations make sense to many Muslims, but you're not talking to Muslims. You're talking to Western women.

If you don't want to talk to Western women, don't come on DCUM. You apparently expect us to accept your explanations at face value, to say "you're right, my hair is nothing but a sexual weapon, and leaving it uncovered will lead to STDs and higher divorce rates than in the Middle East." But we reject this thinking as sexist, the Quran doesn't mention covering hair, and divorce rates in Muslim countries are actually high (also, young brides and polygamy). So we're looking for something better. If you have a reason that isn't sexist, oppressive, and actually out of step with the Quran, I guarantee most of us will slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Oh, that makes sense!"

You know what? You're right. YOUR hair is not a sexual weapon. Happy now?

Since when does a community and its symbols need to make sense to outsiders? Why is it important to you that Muslim women's reasons for covering meet your approval? They sure aren't clamoring for it. Bringing up STDs and higher divorce rates was a bit clumsy, but a more than fitting response to a 30+pages of galactically dumbshit drivel of "hijabis are brainwashed, gullible and unworthy of respect, what should I tell my DAUGHTER". Who asked you accept that thinking? If you think that's sexist, no one is asking you think that way, and rejecting someone else's thinking is simply outside your powers. You aren't really looking for a reason that makes sense to Muslims, you are looking for a reason that makes sense to you. And your sense is simply not part of this equation.

Also, mighty white of you to pit "Western women" and Muslims. There are Muslims in the West. Some of them are even women, you know. It's possible to be a Muslim Western woman. But perhaps not in your little orderly world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Different PP here. You're seeing our frustration. We're looking for explanations that make sense to us. I know your explanations make sense to many Muslims, but you're not talking to Muslims. You're talking to Western women.

If you don't want to talk to Western women, don't come on DCUM. You apparently expect us to accept your explanations at face value, to say "you're right, my hair is nothing but a sexual weapon, and leaving it uncovered will lead to STDs and higher divorce rates than in the Middle East." But we reject this thinking as sexist, the Quran doesn't mention covering hair, and divorce rates in Muslim countries are actually high (also, young brides and polygamy). So we're looking for something better. If you have a reason that isn't sexist, oppressive, and actually out of step with the Quran, I guarantee most of us will slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Oh, that makes sense!"

You know what? You're right. YOUR hair is not a sexual weapon. Happy now?

Since when does a community and its symbols need to make sense to outsiders? Why is it important to you that Muslim women's reasons for covering meet your approval? They sure aren't clamoring for it. Bringing up STDs and higher divorce rates was a bit clumsy, but a more than fitting response to a 30+pages of galactically dumbshit drivel of "hijabis are brainwashed, gullible and unworthy of respect, what should I tell my DAUGHTER". Who asked you accept that thinking? If you think that's sexist, no one is asking you think that way, and rejecting someone else's thinking is simply outside your powers. You aren't really looking for a reason that makes sense to Muslims, you are looking for a reason that makes sense to you. And your sense is simply not part of this equation.

Also, mighty white of you to pit "Western women" and Muslims. There are Muslims in the West. Some of them are even women, you know. It's possible to be a Muslim Western woman. But perhaps not in your little orderly world.

Calm down cowgirl. This thread is about an article written by two Muslim women. There have been a lot of intelligent comments. If you think it's 30 pages of "drivel," why read it? What a waste of your precious time. It's important to me, as a woman, that women not be thought of as only sexual temptation for men. You may think it has nothing to do with us as "western" women but I am not actually a western woman. I am from the middle east and what Muslims are up to interests me greatly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Different PP here. You're seeing our frustration. We're looking for explanations that make sense to us. I know your explanations make sense to many Muslims, but you're not talking to Muslims. You're talking to Western women.

If you don't want to talk to Western women, don't come on DCUM. You apparently expect us to accept your explanations at face value, to say "you're right, my hair is nothing but a sexual weapon, and leaving it uncovered will lead to STDs and higher divorce rates than in the Middle East." But we reject this thinking as sexist, the Quran doesn't mention covering hair, and divorce rates in Muslim countries are actually high (also, young brides and polygamy). So we're looking for something better. If you have a reason that isn't sexist, oppressive, and actually out of step with the Quran, I guarantee most of us will slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Oh, that makes sense!"

You know what? You're right. YOUR hair is not a sexual weapon. Happy now?

Since when does a community and its symbols need to make sense to outsiders? Why is it important to you that Muslim women's reasons for covering meet your approval? They sure aren't clamoring for it. Bringing up STDs and higher divorce rates was a bit clumsy, but a more than fitting response to a 30+pages of galactically dumbshit drivel of "hijabis are brainwashed, gullible and unworthy of respect, what should I tell my DAUGHTER". Who asked you accept that thinking? If you think that's sexist, no one is asking you think that way, and rejecting someone else's thinking is simply outside your powers. You aren't really looking for a reason that makes sense to Muslims, you are looking for a reason that makes sense to you. And your sense is simply not part of this equation.

Also, mighty white of you to pit "Western women" and Muslims. There are Muslims in the West. Some of them are even women, you know. It's possible to be a Muslim Western woman. But perhaps not in your little orderly world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Different PP here. You're seeing our frustration. We're looking for explanations that make sense to us. I know your explanations make sense to many Muslims, but you're not talking to Muslims. You're talking to Western women.

If you don't want to talk to Western women, don't come on DCUM. You apparently expect us to accept your explanations at face value, to say "you're right, my hair is nothing but a sexual weapon, and leaving it uncovered will lead to STDs and higher divorce rates than in the Middle East." But we reject this thinking as sexist, the Quran doesn't mention covering hair, and divorce rates in Muslim countries are actually high (also, young brides and polygamy). So we're looking for something better. If you have a reason that isn't sexist, oppressive, and actually out of step with the Quran, I guarantee most of us will slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Oh, that makes sense!"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Hair is not a gender marker? For thousands of years women have worn their hair much longer than men and it has always been a gender identifier.
"What's good for the goose is good for the gander" is typical western perspective. Problem is, it isn't in Islam. Islam says men and women ARE different. As such, there will be some differences in their rights and privileges they are afforded by God. A great many Muslim women accept this. Maybe you simply need to come to terms with this.

Ugh. We've gone over this point. Just because men and women are biologically different does not justify placing onerous conditions on women or limiting their dress to such a degree that no one can see their hair, calves, etc. No one on this thread has established any sort of convincing argument that the hijab is somehow needed due to the differences between men and women.

But if that is what you say Islam is, I guess that is what Islam is. A religion that places rigid and unjustifiable limitations on women.

You've got that backwards. No one set out to convince you. If you don't believe the hijab is needed, then guess what, don't wear one. If you think Islam places rigid and unjustifiable limitations on women, then guess what, don't be a Muslim. You are starting from the position of "I need to be convinced hijab is a good idea", and the truth is that no one cares what you believe. People who want to cover will cover. The opinion of a random DCUM chick is several universes away from relevant.

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Hair is not a gender marker? For thousands of years women have worn their hair much longer than men and it has always been a gender identifier.
"What's good for the goose is good for the gander" is typical western perspective. Problem is, it isn't in Islam. Islam says men and women ARE different. As such, there will be some differences in their rights and privileges they are afforded by God. A great many Muslim women accept this. Maybe you simply need to come to terms with this.

Ugh. We've gone over this point. Just because men and women are biologically different does not justify placing onerous conditions on women or limiting their dress to such a degree that no one can see their hair, calves, etc. No one on this thread has established any sort of convincing argument that the hijab is somehow needed due to the differences between men and women.

But if that is what you say Islam is, I guess that is what Islam is. A religion that places rigid and unjustifiable limitations on women.

You've got that backwards. No one set out to convince you. If you don't believe the hijab is needed, then guess what, don't wear one. If you think Islam places rigid and unjustifiable limitations on women, then guess what, don't be a Muslim. You are starting from the position of "I need to be convinced hijab is a good idea", and the truth is that no one cares what you believe. People who want to cover will cover. The opinion of a random DCUM chick is several universes away from relevant.