Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell who are the true Islamaphobes on this thread.

They are the ones who refer to the God Muslims worship as Allah when writing in English. Allsh is simply the Arabic word for God. Christian Arabs pray to Allah when using their native tongue. When someone refers to the God whom Muslims worship as Allah when writing in English, they are denyng that the God of Islam is the same monotheistic God worshipped by Jews and Christians and implying Allah is a different god (note the small g).

This is un-Islamic and, strangely, a disturbing practice shared by non-Muslim westerners who insist that Islam is a barbaric religion and strident Muslims who aim to show how special their religion is relative to the religions of the west, even as they are all rooted in the same semitic monotheism.

Wrong.Wrong.Wrong. Muslims are encouraged to use "Allah" just as they are encouraged to greet one another as "Salaam" instead of saying "Peace".

We worship the same God as Jews and Christians (except Christians today think Jesus IS God but we do not). We are always encouraged to use the Arabic word whenever possible. It is more complete, less likely to cause confusion. In fact, all our prayers are in Arabic too, every word of it.

Using a different word for God when speaking in English implies a different god. I don't know who is doing this encouraging, but it is a very negative development. This is quite different from saying Salaam for peace because salaam does not imply a different peace.

Dropping in a phrase in Arabic using Allah when speaking English is fine: Inshallah is a particularly useful one. This is like using a Latin phrase that has gained currency in English like "carpe diem."

Surely you see the irony that the only non-Muslim westerners who refer to the God Muslims worship as Allah are virulently anti-Islamic and seek to distance Islam from their own religion by implying the god Muslims worship is not the god Christians and Jews worship and implying Muslims are not monotheistic as they are. When Muslims, speaking in English, use Allah they are similarly implying their god is not God, the monotheistic entity widely worshipped by English speaking people. And they are encouraging the Islamaphobes by adopting their practice of using Allah instead of God.

Muslima, I'm just an ignorant, barefoot, veiled Muslim gal. Can you explain to me what it means to be a very American woman? Does it mean she's wearing a baseball cap, her boyfriend's boxers, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and eating apple pie? ??

Anonymous wrote:I can tell who are the true Islamaphobes on this thread.

They are the ones who refer to the God Muslims worship as Allah when writing in English. Allsh is simply the Arabic word for God. Christian Arabs pray to Allah when using their native tongue. When someone refers to the God whom Muslims worship as Allah when writing in English, they are denyng that the God of Islam is the same monotheistic God worshipped by Jews and Christians and implying Allah is a different god (note the small g).

This is un-Islamic and, strangely, a disturbing practice shared by non-Muslim westerners who insist that Islam is a barbaric religion and strident Muslims who aim to show how special their religion is relative to the religions of the west, even as they are all rooted in the same semitic monotheism.

Wrong.Wrong.Wrong. Muslims are encouraged to use "Allah" just as they are encouraged to greet one another as "Salaam" instead of saying "Peace".

We worship the same God as Jews and Christians (except Christians today think Jesus IS God but we do not). We are always encouraged to use the Arabic word whenever possible. It is more complete, less likely to cause confusion. In fact, all our prayers are in Arabic too, every word of it.

Anonymous wrote:You see what this dingbat started? Who knows if it is a he or she or what country he or she is posting from.

Post a pic of yourself in a veil. Gain "some" western sympathy.

Then act like an ass and post diatribe after diatribe.

Nasty here. I asked you to stop the mockery and insults, but you didn't.
So heres my reply to you asking Muslima to post a pic of herself in a veil to garner sympathy:
Post a pic of your last pap smear lab results showing your STD (HPV seems to be popular in western states) and maybe we Muslims will feel sorry for you too.

I can tell who are the true Islamaphobes on this thread.

They are the ones who refer to the God Muslims worship as Allah when writing in English. Allsh is simply the Arabic word for God. Christian Arabs pray to Allah when using their native tongue. When someone refers to the God whom Muslims worship as Allah when writing in English, they are denyng that the God of Islam is the same monotheistic God worshipped by Jews and Christians and implying Allah is a different god (note the small g).

This is un-Islamic and, strangely, a disturbing practice shared by non-Muslim westerners who insist that Islam is a barbaric religion and strident Muslims who aim to show how special their religion is relative to the religions of the west, even as they are all rooted in the same semitic monotheism.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These two are quite something - enough already.

To Muslima and her sidekick - you would do a better service to your faith to make your points concise and not make snarky comments.

I've said this again and again.

Muslima seems to have diarrhea of the mouth and cannot help herself/himself.

Muslima is a liar, does not live in the United States and spews her rhetoric like a sycophant.

Be wary absolutely.

THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN.

No, babe, your mouth needs to be shut down. You have used DCUM to spread hate, all because you don't like Islam. You were called out for it and walked away with your tail between your legs. But then your hatred of Islam festered privately and you couldn't hold it in any longer, so you started posting more erroneous facts again!

1. Don't call me BABE. I did not walk away with my tail between my legs. I am not the poster you are referring to. I do not know anything about your religion other that what is posted here and it seems to spawn ignorance, fools, and violence. And I will stand up to you and take you down you silly Muslim coward.
N
2. I realize the moderator here is very PC, but I am VERY AMERICAN. Muslima can go back to wherever he/she came from, you need to shut YOUR mouth because really, YOUR hate filled bigotry and your backwards faith may be making headlines with your savagery. Where are is that getting you in the end?

Muslima's diatribes are only making your Islam look silly. SILLY.

STOP HER NOW. He/she really needs to be removed.

Go take a shower woman!! All I hear is bla bla bLa , we are so scared of You Very American woman Go take your meds, you need them, who let you out?

You are confusing several people. There are at least three of us here. I'm the woman who needs a shower after dealing with Nasty Little Sidekick, but I'm not the poster you guys are calling "babe" who is also different from the atheist. Good work offending multiple posters tonight.

(And "babe"??? Don't either of you understand how wrong it is to use words that are demeaning to women, during a discussion about women's rights?)

Nasty here. Nope. This was not a conversation about women's rights, it was a trashing session to show Islam denied women rights. It is most befitting to strip you of yours then by using degrading terms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These two are quite something - enough already.

To Muslima and her sidekick - you would do a better service to your faith to make your points concise and not make snarky comments.

I've said this again and again.

Muslima seems to have diarrhea of the mouth and cannot help herself/himself.

Muslima is a liar, does not live in the United States and spews her rhetoric like a sycophant.

Be wary absolutely.

THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN.

No, babe, your mouth needs to be shut down. You have used DCUM to spread hate, all because you don't like Islam. You were called out for it and walked away with your tail between your legs. But then your hatred of Islam festered privately and you couldn't hold it in any longer, so you started posting more erroneous facts again!

1. Don't call me BABE. I did not walk away with my tail between my legs. I am not the poster you are referring to. I do not know anything about your religion other that what is posted here and it seems to spawn ignorance, fools, and violence. And I will stand up to you and take you down you silly Muslim coward.

2. I realize the moderator here is very PC, but I am VERY AMERICAN. Muslima can go back to wherever he/she came from, you need to shut YOUR mouth because really, YOUR hate filled bigotry and your backwards faith may be making headlines with your savagery. Where are is that getting you in the end?

Muslima's diatribes are only making your Islam look silly. SILLY.

STOP HER NOW. He/she really needs to be removed.

Nasty Little Muslim here. I am the one who is cautious about calling all hadith authentic, not Muslima.
If you're going to take me down, how come I'm still standing here?

If you are too cowardly to have an identity on DCUM, then you need to expect we may confuse one islamophobe with the other two.

I don't know which sura/verse Muslima quoted but if its the one about a woman declaring her oath of allegiance to the Prophet, that is often used in support of the fact that Islam granted women political choices and their opinion counted. It may not show "voting" rights per se, but it shows women were granted the right to align themselves with whatever ruler they wanted. This verse shows they were politically relevant.

The sura I mentioned, ash shura, provides clear evidence that women had voting rights and the right of their opinion to be heard in all matters requiring a collective opinion. The Quranic language that addresses is plural, rather than female or only male. It means Allah is talking to everyone here. Given that Allah clearly had no issue delineating different rights between men and women, the reader would know that here, in this verse, Allah is including women.

So its time to apologize to Muslima. Seems pretty clear. Islam did give voting rights to women.

You see what this dingbat started? Who knows if it is a he or she or what country he or she is posting from.

Post a pic of yourself in a veil. Gain "some" western sympathy.

Then act like an ass and post diatribe after diatribe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These two are quite something - enough already.

To Muslima and her sidekick - you would do a better service to your faith to make your points concise and not make snarky comments.

I've said this again and again.

Muslima seems to have diarrhea of the mouth and cannot help herself/himself.

Muslima is a liar, does not live in the United States and spews her rhetoric like a sycophant.

Be wary absolutely.

THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN.

No, babe, your mouth needs to be shut down. You have used DCUM to spread hate, all because you don't like Islam. You were called out for it and walked away with your tail between your legs. But then your hatred of Islam festered privately and you couldn't hold it in any longer, so you started posting more erroneous facts again!

1. Don't call me BABE. I did not walk away with my tail between my legs. I am not the poster you are referring to. I do not know anything about your religion other that what is posted here and it seems to spawn ignorance, fools, and violence. And I will stand up to you and take you down you silly Muslim coward.

2. I realize the moderator here is very PC, but I am VERY AMERICAN. Muslima can go back to wherever he/she came from, you need to shut YOUR mouth because really, YOUR hate filled bigotry and your backwards faith may be making headlines with your savagery. Where are is that getting you in the end?

Muslima's diatribes are only making your Islam look silly. SILLY.

STOP HER NOW. He/she really needs to be removed.

She doesn't need to be removed or stopped. There's lots of silly people on DCUM, why should she be singled out? Let her be. There is no law against making Islam look silly. You don't need to tell her to shut up. It doesn't reflect well on you.

Different PP here from the one you're addressing. I agree, she doesn't need to be removed. I have said that if she wanted to put her religion in a good light she'd leave voluntarily or stop making so many suspect claims that provoke pages of arguments. But she's free to do what she wants.

I do kinda feel this whole thread has run its course and we've reached the point where we're just fending off insults. I'd welcome it being shut down. But as long as Muslina and NLS are here saying things like, "Islam offers equal rights to women," I'll be here explaining what exactly that means.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These two are quite something - enough already.

To Muslima and her sidekick - you would do a better service to your faith to make your points concise and not make snarky comments.

I've said this again and again.

Muslima seems to have diarrhea of the mouth and cannot help herself/himself.

Muslima is a liar, does not live in the United States and spews her rhetoric like a sycophant.

Be wary absolutely.

THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN.

No, babe, your mouth needs to be shut down. You have used DCUM to spread hate, all because you don't like Islam. You were called out for it and walked away with your tail between your legs. But then your hatred of Islam festered privately and you couldn't hold it in any longer, so you started posting more erroneous facts again!

1. Don't call me BABE. I did not walk away with my tail between my legs. I am not the poster you are referring to. I do not know anything about your religion other that what is posted here and it seems to spawn ignorance, fools, and violence. And I will stand up to you and take you down you silly Muslim coward.

2. I realize the moderator here is very PC, but I am VERY AMERICAN. Muslima can go back to wherever he/she came from, you need to shut YOUR mouth because really, YOUR hate filled bigotry and your backwards faith may be making headlines with your savagery. Where are is that getting you in the end?

Muslima's diatribes are only making your Islam look silly. SILLY.

STOP HER NOW. He/she really needs to be removed.

Go take a shower woman!! All I hear is bla bla bLa , we are so scared of You Very American woman Go take your meds, you need them, who let you out?

You are confusing several people. There are at least three of us here. I'm the woman who needs a shower after dealing with Nasty Little Sidekick, but I'm not the poster you guys are calling "babe" who is also different from the atheist. Good work offending multiple posters tonight.

(And "babe"??? Don't either of you understand how wrong it is to use words that are demeaning to women, during a discussion about women's rights?)

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
Islam gives equal rights to women and stop lying, nobody said our idea of "equal" was the polar opposite of what the American audience would understand. I repeat, we are EQUAL. And STOP LYING, muslim women get divorced every day without going to court, the nerve of you!!!! And guess what?? Even if Going to Court was Her only way to get a divorce, how about women in America, or any country for that matter, can they get a divorce without going to court??

Men in Islam don't have to go court to get a divorce.

Muslima wrote:
There are basically three ways for a wife can seek a divorce:
1)Ask her husband that she no longer wishes to remain his wife, and the husband accedes to her request and pronounces a divorce on her.
2)If the husband refuses to divorce her, she has the right to Initiate a divorce proceedings in a Shariah Court, whereby the Judge will study the conditions and reasons for seeking divorce, and then summon the husband and give him an option: either he accedes to the wife’s divorce request and pronounces divorce on her, or the Court will use its authority and divorce the couple.
3) If the husband does not pronounce the divorce and the Judge sees valid reason for divorce, the Shariah Judge has the authority to divorce the couple

I note that option 4) "tell her husband she's divorcing him and get on her way" was not on your list. That option is available to every Muslim man.

Also, in option #2, the judge doesn't HAVE to agree with the wife. He can just recommend lots of sabr and send her home. Lots of judges do, you know.

Muslima wrote:a woman came to the Prophet Muhammad seeking the dissolution of her marriage, she told the Prophet that she did not have any complaints against her husband's character or manners. Her only problem was that she honestly did not like him to the extent of not being able to live with him any longer. The Prophet asked her: "Would you give him his garden (the marriage gift he had given her) back?" she said: "Yes". The Prophet then instructed the man to take back his garden and accept the dissolution of the marriage (Bukhari).

So you think hadith are authentic now, do you? The other Muslim poster doesn't seem to think so. I note also that if that woman's husband wanted to divorce her, you bet he wouldn't be coming to Prophet Muhammad. He would just say, hey, you're divorced.

Google it! I refuse to "enlighten" to you. You obviously want to go in circle, answering everything with "but x, y ,z" and everything you say is a fallacy. I for once, am not interested, I have said it before, sterile discussions bore me. Join a debate team if you want to debate about Islam, you will be more satisfied there and they will actually take a time to prove x, y, z to you. Im gonna go do my nightly prayers ~

Not that poster, but why is it a fallacy? She's making a perfectly good and valid point that women in Islam have no unilateral right of divorce identical to what men have, unless explicitly provided for in their marriage contract. I mean, you can form a theory as to why this is a good thing, but I don't think you can argue that factually this is entirely correct.

Muslima wrote:

Google it!

Ma Salaama ~

You keep saying goodbye but you never actually leave. Why is that?

Muslima wrote:

Google it!

Ma Salaama ~

Nope, no need. You don't know more about this than I do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These two are quite something - enough already.

To Muslima and her sidekick - you would do a better service to your faith to make your points concise and not make snarky comments.

I've said this again and again.

Muslima seems to have diarrhea of the mouth and cannot help herself/himself.

Muslima is a liar, does not live in the United States and spews her rhetoric like a sycophant.

Be wary absolutely.

THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN.

No, babe, your mouth needs to be shut down. You have used DCUM to spread hate, all because you don't like Islam. You were called out for it and walked away with your tail between your legs. But then your hatred of Islam festered privately and you couldn't hold it in any longer, so you started posting more erroneous facts again!

1. Don't call me BABE. I did not walk away with my tail between my legs. I am not the poster you are referring to. I do not know anything about your religion other that what is posted here and it seems to spawn ignorance, fools, and violence. And I will stand up to you and take you down you silly Muslim coward.

2. I realize the moderator here is very PC, but I am VERY AMERICAN. Muslima can go back to wherever he/she came from, you need to shut YOUR mouth because really, YOUR hate filled bigotry and your backwards faith may be making headlines with your savagery. Where are is that getting you in the end?

Muslima's diatribes are only making your Islam look silly. SILLY.

STOP HER NOW. He/she really needs to be removed.

She doesn't need to be removed or stopped. There's lots of silly people on DCUM, why should she be singled out? Let her be. There is no law against making Islam look silly. You don't need to tell her to shut up. It doesn't reflect well on you.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
Islam gives equal rights to women and stop lying, nobody said our idea of "equal" was the polar opposite of what the American audience would understand. I repeat, we are EQUAL. And STOP LYING, muslim women get divorced every day without going to court, the nerve of you!!!! And guess what?? Even if Going to Court was Her only way to get a divorce, how about women in America, or any country for that matter, can they get a divorce without going to court??

Men in Islam don't have to go court to get a divorce.

Muslima wrote:
There are basically three ways for a wife can seek a divorce:
1)Ask her husband that she no longer wishes to remain his wife, and the husband accedes to her request and pronounces a divorce on her.
2)If the husband refuses to divorce her, she has the right to Initiate a divorce proceedings in a Shariah Court, whereby the Judge will study the conditions and reasons for seeking divorce, and then summon the husband and give him an option: either he accedes to the wife’s divorce request and pronounces divorce on her, or the Court will use its authority and divorce the couple.
3) If the husband does not pronounce the divorce and the Judge sees valid reason for divorce, the Shariah Judge has the authority to divorce the couple

I note that option 4) "tell her husband she's divorcing him and get on her way" was not on your list. That option is available to every Muslim man.

Also, in option #2, the judge doesn't HAVE to agree with the wife. He can just recommend lots of sabr and send her home. Lots of judges do, you know.

Muslima wrote:a woman came to the Prophet Muhammad seeking the dissolution of her marriage, she told the Prophet that she did not have any complaints against her husband's character or manners. Her only problem was that she honestly did not like him to the extent of not being able to live with him any longer. The Prophet asked her: "Would you give him his garden (the marriage gift he had given her) back?" she said: "Yes". The Prophet then instructed the man to take back his garden and accept the dissolution of the marriage (Bukhari).

So you think hadith are authentic now, do you? The other Muslim poster doesn't seem to think so. I note also that if that woman's husband wanted to divorce her, you bet he wouldn't be coming to Prophet Muhammad. He would just say, hey, you're divorced.

Google it! I refuse to "enlighten" to you. You obviously want to go in circle, answering everything with "but x, y ,z" and everything you say is a fallacy. I for once, am not interested, I have said it before, sterile discussions bore me. Join a debate team if you want to debate about Islam, you will be more satisfied there and they will actually take a time to prove x, y, z to you. Im gonna go do my nightly prayers ~

What part of what I said was factually incorrect?

Google it!

Ma Salaama ~