Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys don’t like the girls doing the asking.

But they're not asking either. My daughter has a group of almost 10 friends and none of them have had a single guy ask them to do anything. They're very attractive, etc but there are a gazillion beautiful girls.

So are they just to remain celibate throughout all of college?

When I was in college very few people were ever asked out on dates. We did things in groups and paired up temporarily. No guy wanted a girlfriend in college.

Anonymous wrote:Guys don’t like the girls doing the asking.

Disagree.

Yes, the guys could be clueless

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My college freshman daughter has asked a few guys for coffee/breakfast this year and they have said no.
The latest was this week and they guy basically said he was busy and would be busy 'all month."

She's lovely, thin, smart, well dressed, etc.
I have no idea what's wrong. She has no trouble making female friends, has a great group who are also lovely.
She's about to give up entirely. I joke to myself that maybe she should date women.

You are omitting something.

I'm really not. She is pretty, thin, smart and the boys just turn her down. These are kids she's been in class with. One was a lunch invite. 'hey, do you want to meet for lunch?"
I have no idea what is going on.

First of all, good for her. I know it is frustrating now, but she should not be discouraged: she will do well, just keep it up. I don’t know the specifics, but I remember (had only one previous long-term girlfriend at the time) being asked out in college but I was too clueless to know it at the time. So when someone said we should study together sometime, and was vague about specifics, I was probably non-committal in my answer because I generally studied alone. But if she was very specific, like, can you help me go over this tonight or tomorrow? We can meet in the cafe. How about 8? I would have been like, “sure.” And then during the “study session” I would maybe have put two and two together.

My point is, don’t express general interest in doing something. Be very specific. Sometimes women think the general interest is enough, and guys will then take it from there, immediately get the message they are being asked out, and then take charge of arranging the details. I would not assume that…

Lack of dating/relationships is a real issue and common point of discussion among my friends with girls ranging from late teens to early 30's. Those who formed relationships in college are faring better - able to focus on career and friends. All others are relying on and disillusioned by online dating and setups. I have 3 single neices in 20's/early 30's - beautiful with great jobs who can't meet anyone. I have 2 sons. One met a girl at company (bc when working IB hours, who else can u meet?). Anyway, they got together after a company event and had to keep to keep the relationship a secret for 2 years! Girl was senior by 1 year and would have looked bad. (For those who say women can ask guys out- these days, women can also be accused of harassment/abuse of power.) Son's next relationship was with a girl at another company and kept secret for a year before got engaged (this time he was more senior). Given the challenges i hear from friends and family, post college dating is very complicated these days. It is ironic that as many women ascend in power and earning status, their relationship opportunities are narrowing. I have several peers who had kids on their own. They wanted a relationship and also wanted kids, but hadn't met anyone by their late 30's. Fortunately they had family to support childcare needs but it's not ideal. Unfortunately, I think this trend may continue.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outdated in elite schools. Every one, male or female, is so career oriented. No one is investing in "finding spouse" seriously. Most break up at graduation due to jobs in different locations anyway.

BS. Two ivy kids. Both married their significant other from college. This is the highest probability of finding a match that is similar to your kid’s IQ , earning potential and socio-economic environment. They will never again be around that many eligible singles in their lives…..

This. One caveat, though: girls will have to initiate with many of the clueless boys. Those that refuse because they want more confident men are the ones who end up single in their mid-30s, watching their now-confident male former peers date whoever they want. Then they will have to “settle” or not have kids, or both, given their age.

Antiquated

Accurate. Geeky boy Ivy types do just fine in their 30s. But they also tend to be nicer guys. Get them in college and they will be great husbands. These guys will ultimately do well either way. But for women, things often do not work out.

The popular Ivy type guys with early confidence are the ones who leave their wives in their 30s and 40s for younger women; they are the ones who develop midlife crises and seek the glory days. We have all seen this many times…

NP. I think the bigger reason things do not tend to work out for these women is most of them struggle with mental illness, as studies have shown.

What are you saying? Please post links to these "studies."
I work with medical residents and many of the women resident physicians are single, attractive, brilliant, close to 30 and have a terrifically hard time meeting men and none of them are mentally ill. It's the same every year so isn't unique to one class of residents. If you gave me a piece of paper right now I could write down 30 names that fit this description.

It's very, very, very hard to meet men in 2025 if you are a highly educated woman in your later 20s or early 30s.

If there's one piece of advice I can give to college young women who are interested in marriage it's to not postpone dating until post college.
Sure, it works for some but it works for far fewer women in 2025 than it did when we (moms in our late 40s, early 50s) were in our youth.

I can confirm this. My wife and I were surgical residents together and are now practice in academic settings with residents. It's been wonderful to see extremely talented women go down the surgery path, and I love seeing photos of "all women cases" where everyone in the room is a woman. But its hard for many of them to pair up because their male counterparts are often already in relationships, more interested in dating nurses etc. No one blinks an eye at the latter, but there there is a double standard in the hospital if one of our female residents dates a male nurse or a radiology technician. Even dating non-surgeon medical residents has an odd dynamic (for some insecure guys), so not as common as one might think. Looking backwards, a striking number of female co-residents for my wife never got married, which is tragic because these women are truly amazing as people (not just as surgeons). My kids have a lot of aunts...

Medical community's biggest problem is obsession with inbreeding. They'll be better off being more open minded and expanding their lives. Self segregation isn't serving their majority.

Another observation is that, educated and well earning men (straight or gay) are more open to partners with less education or income but similar level women develop delusion of grandeur and only consider equal or higher. If they are with such partners, they get rid of them once finished with training and don't need support.

Women have a tendency towards hypergamy. They want to "marry up" and we have seen the effects on dating apps where all the women are chasing the same top 3% of guys.

Thanks to social media, girls and young women are all being persuaded to follow the 6-6-6-6 standard before they even meet a man for the first time (six feet+ tall, six-figure income, six-pack stomach).

Young women do not even give themselves the chance to meet a guy if he doesn’t meet these standards. The 6-6-6-6 trend is not a myth. It was even made a part of the last presidential campaign. It really is a reality and a standard for many young women.

But even were you to reject that phenomenon, the PP noted a different, verifiable, dating trend affecting our kids:

- just the top 3% of males on OLD are pursued by virtually all the women on OLD. Google it. Ask AI. Even the most basic search on this trend demonstrates the problem.

And it is a problem because it will lead to drastically fewer marriages and far greater loneliness / solitary lives (not to mention worsening the fertility rate / demographic crisis).

My daughter and friends would be happy to date guys that don't meet these parameters but they don't ask them out or pay any attention to them. If they ask the guys they don't say yes. They only want to date the gorgeous girls: super provocative social media, bikini shots, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outdated in elite schools. Every one, male or female, is so career oriented. No one is investing in "finding spouse" seriously. Most break up at graduation due to jobs in different locations anyway.

BS. Two ivy kids. Both married their significant other from college. This is the highest probability of finding a match that is similar to your kid’s IQ , earning potential and socio-economic environment. They will never again be around that many eligible singles in their lives…..

This. One caveat, though: girls will have to initiate with many of the clueless boys. Those that refuse because they want more confident men are the ones who end up single in their mid-30s, watching their now-confident male former peers date whoever they want. Then they will have to “settle” or not have kids, or both, given their age.

Antiquated

Accurate. Geeky boy Ivy types do just fine in their 30s. But they also tend to be nicer guys. Get them in college and they will be great husbands. These guys will ultimately do well either way. But for women, things often do not work out.

The popular Ivy type guys with early confidence are the ones who leave their wives in their 30s and 40s for younger women; they are the ones who develop midlife crises and seek the glory days. We have all seen this many times…

NP. I think the bigger reason things do not tend to work out for these women is most of them struggle with mental illness, as studies have shown.

What are you saying? Please post links to these "studies."
I work with medical residents and many of the women resident physicians are single, attractive, brilliant, close to 30 and have a terrifically hard time meeting men and none of them are mentally ill. It's the same every year so isn't unique to one class of residents. If you gave me a piece of paper right now I could write down 30 names that fit this description.

It's very, very, very hard to meet men in 2025 if you are a highly educated woman in your later 20s or early 30s.

If there's one piece of advice I can give to college young women who are interested in marriage it's to not postpone dating until post college.
Sure, it works for some but it works for far fewer women in 2025 than it did when we (moms in our late 40s, early 50s) were in our youth.

I can confirm this. My wife and I were surgical residents together and are now practice in academic settings with residents. It's been wonderful to see extremely talented women go down the surgery path, and I love seeing photos of "all women cases" where everyone in the room is a woman. But its hard for many of them to pair up because their male counterparts are often already in relationships, more interested in dating nurses etc. No one blinks an eye at the latter, but there there is a double standard in the hospital if one of our female residents dates a male nurse or a radiology technician. Even dating non-surgeon medical residents has an odd dynamic (for some insecure guys), so not as common as one might think. Looking backwards, a striking number of female co-residents for my wife never got married, which is tragic because these women are truly amazing as people (not just as surgeons). My kids have a lot of aunts...

Medical community's biggest problem is obsession with inbreeding. They'll be better off being more open minded and expanding their lives. Self segregation isn't serving their majority.

Another observation is that, educated and well earning men (straight or gay) are more open to partners with less education or income but similar level women develop delusion of grandeur and only consider equal or higher. If they are with such partners, they get rid of them once finished with training and don't need support.

Women have a tendency towards hypergamy. They want to "marry up" and we have seen the effects on dating apps where all the women are chasing the same top 3% of guys.

Thanks to social media, girls and young women are all being persuaded to follow the 6-6-6-6 standard before they even meet a man for the first time (six feet+ tall, six-figure income, six-pack stomach).

Young women do not even give themselves the chance to meet a guy if he doesn’t meet these standards. The 6-6-6-6 trend is not a myth. It was even made a part of the last presidential campaign. It really is a reality and a standard for many young women.

But even were you to reject that phenomenon, the PP noted a different, verifiable, dating trend affecting our kids:

- just the top 3% of males on OLD are pursued by virtually all the women on OLD. Google it. Ask AI. Even the most basic search on this trend demonstrates the problem.

And it is a problem because it will lead to drastically fewer marriages and far greater loneliness / solitary lives (not to mention worsening the fertility rate / demographic crisis).

Anonymous wrote:Guys don’t like the girls doing the asking.

But they're not asking either. My daughter has a group of almost 10 friends and none of them have had a single guy ask them to do anything. They're very attractive, etc but there are a gazillion beautiful girls.

So are they just to remain celibate throughout all of college?

Guys don’t like the girls doing the asking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My college freshman daughter has asked a few guys for coffee/breakfast this year and they have said no.
The latest was this week and they guy basically said he was busy and would be busy 'all month."

She's lovely, thin, smart, well dressed, etc.
I have no idea what's wrong. She has no trouble making female friends, has a great group who are also lovely.
She's about to give up entirely. I joke to myself that maybe she should date women.

You are omitting something.

I'm really not. She is pretty, thin, smart and the boys just turn her down. These are kids she's been in class with. One was a lunch invite. 'hey, do you want to meet for lunch?"
I have no idea what is going on.

Anonymous wrote:My college freshman daughter has asked a few guys for coffee/breakfast this year and they have said no.
The latest was this week and they guy basically said he was busy and would be busy 'all month."

She's lovely, thin, smart, well dressed, etc.
I have no idea what's wrong. She has no trouble making female friends, has a great group who are also lovely.
She's about to give up entirely. I joke to myself that maybe she should date women.

You are omitting something.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be worried if my kid were attending a school in a red state. Don't want to end up with MAGA in-laws.

I hope my kids find great life-long friends in college. If one becomes a spouse, then great, but no pressure at all to find someone when they're so young.

So are Asian students dating and finding potential mates


This is why ivy/t15 private is so important! Quality friends with the right intelligence level and great spouse potential

Ivies these days are 50% kids on full aid and 50% Asian (with some overlap between the two). Frankly, that dating pool isn't highly desirable at all for those looking to "marry well."

Asians have had to deal with their daughters bringing home white guys for a while now.

Um, it’s whites having to deal with their sons bringing Asian girls

It's more like close minded parents of all races having to deal with their kids being more openminded and not using racists criteria to limit who they become friends with or have romantic relationships.

This is not the conversation. Someone claimed that a student body that was, among other things, too asian leads to bad marriage outcomes. As a percentage of marriages asians (particularly asian women) have a higher rate of mixed marriages than white men because of differences in population size. So if we could get used to it, so can you. If it's good enough for Zuckerberg it's probably good enough for you.

Anonymous wrote:My college freshman daughter has asked a few guys for coffee/breakfast this year and they have said no.
The latest was this week and they guy basically said he was busy and would be busy 'all month."

She's lovely, thin, smart, well dressed, etc.
I have no idea what's wrong. She has no trouble making female friends, has a great group who are also lovely.
She's about to give up entirely. I joke to myself that maybe she should date women.

Asking someone to breakfast might come off as odd. Try this: you're leaving class, you say: want to get lunch?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outdated in elite schools. Every one, male or female, is so career oriented. No one is investing in "finding spouse" seriously. Most break up at graduation due to jobs in different locations anyway.

BS. Two ivy kids. Both married their significant other from college. This is the highest probability of finding a match that is similar to your kid’s IQ , earning potential and socio-economic environment. They will never again be around that many eligible singles in their lives…..

This. One caveat, though: girls will have to initiate with many of the clueless boys. Those that refuse because they want more confident men are the ones who end up single in their mid-30s, watching their now-confident male former peers date whoever they want. Then they will have to “settle” or not have kids, or both, given their age.

Antiquated

Accurate. Geeky boy Ivy types do just fine in their 30s. But they also tend to be nicer guys. Get them in college and they will be great husbands. These guys will ultimately do well either way. But for women, things often do not work out.

The popular Ivy type guys with early confidence are the ones who leave their wives in their 30s and 40s for younger women; they are the ones who develop midlife crises and seek the glory days. We have all seen this many times…

NP. I think the bigger reason things do not tend to work out for these women is most of them struggle with mental illness, as studies have shown.

What are you saying? Please post links to these "studies."
I work with medical residents and many of the women resident physicians are single, attractive, brilliant, close to 30 and have a terrifically hard time meeting men and none of them are mentally ill. It's the same every year so isn't unique to one class of residents. If you gave me a piece of paper right now I could write down 30 names that fit this description.

It's very, very, very hard to meet men in 2025 if you are a highly educated woman in your later 20s or early 30s.

If there's one piece of advice I can give to college young women who are interested in marriage it's to not postpone dating until post college.
Sure, it works for some but it works for far fewer women in 2025 than it did when we (moms in our late 40s, early 50s) were in our youth.

I can confirm this. My wife and I were surgical residents together and are now practice in academic settings with residents. It's been wonderful to see extremely talented women go down the surgery path, and I love seeing photos of "all women cases" where everyone in the room is a woman. But its hard for many of them to pair up because their male counterparts are often already in relationships, more interested in dating nurses etc. No one blinks an eye at the latter, but there there is a double standard in the hospital if one of our female residents dates a male nurse or a radiology technician. Even dating non-surgeon medical residents has an odd dynamic (for some insecure guys), so not as common as one might think. Looking backwards, a striking number of female co-residents for my wife never got married, which is tragic because these women are truly amazing as people (not just as surgeons). My kids have a lot of aunts...

Medical community's biggest problem is obsession with inbreeding. They'll be better off being more open minded and expanding their lives. Self segregation isn't serving their majority.

Another observation is that, educated and well earning men (straight or gay) are more open to partners with less education or income but similar level women develop delusion of grandeur and only consider equal or higher. If they are with such partners, they get rid of them once finished with training and don't need support.

Women have a tendency towards hypergamy. They want to "marry up" and we have seen the effects on dating apps where all the women are chasing the same top 3% of guys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outdated in elite schools. Every one, male or female, is so career oriented. No one is investing in "finding spouse" seriously. Most break up at graduation due to jobs in different locations anyway.

BS. Two ivy kids. Both married their significant other from college. This is the highest probability of finding a match that is similar to your kid’s IQ , earning potential and socio-economic environment. They will never again be around that many eligible singles in their lives…..

This. One caveat, though: girls will have to initiate with many of the clueless boys. Those that refuse because they want more confident men are the ones who end up single in their mid-30s, watching their now-confident male former peers date whoever they want. Then they will have to “settle” or not have kids, or both, given their age.

Antiquated

Accurate. Geeky boy Ivy types do just fine in their 30s. But they also tend to be nicer guys. Get them in college and they will be great husbands. These guys will ultimately do well either way. But for women, things often do not work out.

The popular Ivy type guys with early confidence are the ones who leave their wives in their 30s and 40s for younger women; they are the ones who develop midlife crises and seek the glory days. We have all seen this many times…

No, its a mixed bag and geeky types can develop midlife crises and divorce to date younger, while popular guys can be devoted for life. You really cant make that broad judgment when there are other things that correlate a lot more.

Sigh. Think of the shy, geeky smart boys you knew in your elite college.
Think of the confident male players.
Fast forward 20 years.
Which group, in general, made better husbands?
Not. Even. Close.
If this is not obvious to you, it is because these were not your circles.

+1
My slightly nerdy husband and I have been in a solid marriage for 20+ years. The athletes I dated are on their 2nd+ marriages.

The athletes got you when you were not as ran thru, younger and then got married then upgraded.

Your slightly nerdy husband got a used car and stuck with it thru the depreciation curve

Divorce and trophy wives are not a good result. Trust me on this. 50 year old you will thank 40 year old you. The women you get on that second trip to the buffet are just not the same. Why the hell would they marry you when there is a fresh new crop of men every year?