FPYCparent wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can someone help me understand the difference between “Regional” and “American” and between “National” and “Open” club teams, please?
Here's the text verbatim from the 2025 USA Volleyball manual: https://usavolleyball.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/2025-Girls-Championship-Manual-Finalized-Updated-with-Changes-as-of-Feb-19.pdf
GJNC = Girls Junior National Championships
NQ = National Qualifier ... roughly 12 NQ events per year for ages 17 and under; 16 NQ events for 18s
There are ~40 regions in USA Volleyball (https://www.usavregions.org/regions.html). Each region is allotted a set number of bids ... per age group ... for its teams to compete at the national championships. The number of bids is based on the number of participating players in that region ... again, per age group.
The list of the divisions below is typically in order from highest level of competition to the lowest.
From Page 10
There are seven (7) major divisions of play at GJNCs – Open Divisions, National Divisions, USA Divisions, Liberty Divisions, American Divisions, Freedom Divisions, and the Patriot Divisions.
The goal of the GJNCs Open Divisions is to identify, through competition, the best team in each GJNCs age group from among teams that have earned Bids. The NQ Open Divisions are designed to select those teams.
To participate in an Open Division at the GJNCs, a team must earn a Bid from participating in an NQ Open Division – either winning the Bid outright at an NQ or being selected for an At-Large Bid after competing in an NQ Open Division (see Open At-Large Bids).
The goal of the GJNCs National, USA, Liberty, American and Freedom is to showcase Region Teams and provide the opportunity for more teams to participate at the GJNCs.
Teams have the following avenues to receive a Bid for a GJNCs Open, National, USA, Liberty, American or Freedom Division:
• Earn a Bid at a NQ (Open, National (11s – 12s only) USA, Liberty and American);
• Awarded an at–large Bid (Open, USA, and Liberty);
• Earn a Bid through their Region’s Bid process (National, American and Freedom); or
• Earn a Bid from their Region through the Re-allocation process (National, USA, Liberty, American and Freedom).
The goal of the GJNCs Patriot Divisions is to allow opportunity for teams to participate at the GJNCs without following the qualification process. Teams must follow the established process to participate in this division.
...
The page also has a chart to show approximately how many teams compete in each division at the national championships.
Patriot division is effectively pay-to-play. All other bids must be earned on the court.
Technically, "Regional" isn't a level of play. It's more of an admission that a "regional" team won't travel too far from its home location for competition. Think getting there by car vs. opting to fly. However, some might infer that a "Regional" team isn't really that good if they aren't willing to travel far enough to prove it.
Anonymous wrote:Can someone help me understand the difference between “Regional” and “American” and between “National” and “Open” club teams, please?
There are seven (7) major divisions of play at GJNCs – Open Divisions, National Divisions, USA Divisions, Liberty Divisions, American Divisions, Freedom Divisions, and the Patriot Divisions.
The goal of the GJNCs Open Divisions is to identify, through competition, the best team in each GJNCs age group from among teams that have earned Bids. The NQ Open Divisions are designed to select those teams.
To participate in an Open Division at the GJNCs, a team must earn a Bid from participating in an NQ Open Division – either winning the Bid outright at an NQ or being selected for an At-Large Bid after competing in an NQ Open Division (see Open At-Large Bids).
The goal of the GJNCs National, USA, Liberty, American and Freedom is to showcase Region Teams and provide the opportunity for more teams to participate at the GJNCs.
Teams have the following avenues to receive a Bid for a GJNCs Open, National, USA, Liberty, American or Freedom Division:
• Earn a Bid at a NQ (Open, National (11s – 12s only) USA, Liberty and American);
• Awarded an at–large Bid (Open, USA, and Liberty);
• Earn a Bid through their Region’s Bid process (National, American and Freedom); or
• Earn a Bid from their Region through the Re-allocation process (National, USA, Liberty, American and Freedom).
The goal of the GJNCs Patriot Divisions is to allow opportunity for teams to participate at the GJNCs without following the qualification process. Teams must follow the established process to participate in this division.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t having multiple levels per club take care of this? For example, Maryland Juniors has three club levels (Elite, Open, and Regional) with two teams per club. That’s SIX clubs. Can’t Metro create more Travel level teams instead of just one Travel and multiple Regional teams?
Paramount has been the only club that has had regional success with their "2nd" teams. Paramount qualified their 14-2 team last year and their 15-2 team this year. Metro's 2nd teams are local teams that aren't even competitive within the region. Their only focus is their travel teams. There isn't enough talent in the area for their to be three true open level clubs, and to have multiple teams in an age group that have a chance to earn bids takes a lot of work (and a lot of great coaches)
Isn't the 15-2 from this year mostly the 14-2 team from last year? I don't expect Paramount to bleed a lot of players, so have the players shuffled between the two 15 teams? I am not familiar with their roster and I don't want to do research - I am hoping that someone is familiar with their rosters.
I dont think I saw any player move up from paramount 2’s team to 1’s. Paramount 1’s team seems to recruit players outside of their club. Same as metro- I don’t see metro regional players moving to travel.
Paramount claims that both of their teams are travel teams, so they don't really have a 1s team and a 2s team.
I don’t doubt that is what the club says, but there is very clearly a 1s and a 2s team. Whichever team went to Triple Crown and more qualifiers is the 1s team.
Both of Paramount's 15s teams went to triple crown this year. But there is definitely a 1s and a 2s team! The 15-2 team returned about 2/3 of their team from last year. They lost 5 players and added 5 new players. They are clearly Paramount's best 2s team and may be an outlier - they finished 3rd at regionals behind Metro and Paramount 1s team. The other Paramount 2s teams finished towards the bottom of the standings at regionals though they are still arguably more competitive than 2s teams at most other clubs, except maybe MVSA.
Paramount’s 2nd teams did well at Regionals, generally finishing ahead of VAJRS, VAE and other similar clubs, so I’m not sure where you get that most of them finished near the bottom. Moreover, Bid Regionals are actually getting harder just to even get into (ask VAE, who had multiple teams denied entry), so the fact that every single Paramount team gained acceptance into bid regionals in an accomplishment in and of itself (the 18s division was the only division that Metro was able to get a 2nd team into).
For example: 13 Tate finished tied for 5th (tied with MDJRS and MVSA’s top teams, and finishing ahead of VA Juniors). 14 Anderson finished tied for 7th (same place as MVSA’s 1’s team and 4 spots ahead of VAE). 15 Cruz finished 3rd overall (ahead of MDJRS and VAJRS). 16 Allorie finished last place, so I get that one. 11 Sadie and 12 Maggie both finished in last place, but in those age groups all the players in thearea are just learning how to play.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t having multiple levels per club take care of this? For example, Maryland Juniors has three club levels (Elite, Open, and Regional) with two teams per club. That’s SIX clubs. Can’t Metro create more Travel level teams instead of just one Travel and multiple Regional teams?
Paramount has been the only club that has had regional success with their "2nd" teams. Paramount qualified their 14-2 team last year and their 15-2 team this year. Metro's 2nd teams are local teams that aren't even competitive within the region. Their only focus is their travel teams. There isn't enough talent in the area for their to be three true open level clubs, and to have multiple teams in an age group that have a chance to earn bids takes a lot of work (and a lot of great coaches)
Isn't the 15-2 from this year mostly the 14-2 team from last year? I don't expect Paramount to bleed a lot of players, so have the players shuffled between the two 15 teams? I am not familiar with their roster and I don't want to do research - I am hoping that someone is familiar with their rosters.
I dont think I saw any player move up from paramount 2’s team to 1’s. Paramount 1’s team seems to recruit players outside of their club. Same as metro- I don’t see metro regional players moving to travel.
Paramount claims that both of their teams are travel teams, so they don't really have a 1s team and a 2s team.
I don’t doubt that is what the club says, but there is very clearly a 1s and a 2s team. Whichever team went to Triple Crown and more qualifiers is the 1s team.
Both of Paramount's 15s teams went to triple crown this year. But there is definitely a 1s and a 2s team! The 15-2 team returned about 2/3 of their team from last year. They lost 5 players and added 5 new players. They are clearly Paramount's best 2s team and may be an outlier - they finished 3rd at regionals behind Metro and Paramount 1s team. The other Paramount 2s teams finished towards the bottom of the standings at regionals though they are still arguably more competitive than 2s teams at most other clubs, except maybe MVSA.
Paramount’s 2nd teams did well at Regionals, generally finishing ahead of VAJRS, VAE and other similar clubs, so I’m not sure where you get that most of them finished near the bottom. Moreover, Bid Regionals are actually getting harder just to even get into (ask VAE, who had multiple teams denied entry), so the fact that every single Paramount team gained acceptance into bid regionals in an accomplishment in and of itself (the 18s division was the only division that Metro was able to get a 2nd team into).
For example: 13 Tate finished tied for 5th (tied with MDJRS and MVSA’s top teams, and finishing ahead of VA Juniors). 14 Anderson finished tied for 7th (same place as MVSA’s 1’s team and 4 spots ahead of VAE). 15 Cruz finished 3rd overall (ahead of MDJRS and VAJRS). 16 Allorie finished last place, so I get that one. 11 Sadie and 12 Maggie both finished in last place, but in those age groups all the players in thearea are just learning how to play.
Anonymous wrote:
I feel like these people cannot imagine that most of us don't care about their bids. They look at any volleyball thread as another opportunity to discuss their top teams and their D1 recruits. They turn every volleyball thread into a useless debate on which team is the best in the region as if everybody must care about that.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is what I had in mind when I started this thread: a place mostly for the beginners to learn about camps, clinics, leagues and other volleyball activities. The focus seems to have shifted toward bids and top clubs, pretty much the same way the discussion goes on other threads. May I suggest opening a different thread to exchange information about what teams got what bids? I think that thread would have a somewhat different audience.
Yeah, this thread is totally worthless for anyone that is not SUPER SUPER DEEP IN THE WEEDS on volleyball. My kid plays on a team at the 14U level and wants to play on her HS team. All this "open bid" stuff is like total Greek to me. I've found the same thing with the soccer and even softball threads -- they all get taken over by the people who are obsessed with the sport and seem to be very focused on getting their kid to play at a top Div 1 school -- one would think that they have been places to communicate about this stuff that are more specific than a random DCUM thread.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t having multiple levels per club take care of this? For example, Maryland Juniors has three club levels (Elite, Open, and Regional) with two teams per club. That’s SIX clubs. Can’t Metro create more Travel level teams instead of just one Travel and multiple Regional teams?
Paramount has been the only club that has had regional success with their "2nd" teams. Paramount qualified their 14-2 team last year and their 15-2 team this year. Metro's 2nd teams are local teams that aren't even competitive within the region. Their only focus is their travel teams. There isn't enough talent in the area for their to be three true open level clubs, and to have multiple teams in an age group that have a chance to earn bids takes a lot of work (and a lot of great coaches)
Isn't the 15-2 from this year mostly the 14-2 team from last year? I don't expect Paramount to bleed a lot of players, so have the players shuffled between the two 15 teams? I am not familiar with their roster and I don't want to do research - I am hoping that someone is familiar with their rosters.
I dont think I saw any player move up from paramount 2’s team to 1’s. Paramount 1’s team seems to recruit players outside of their club. Same as metro- I don’t see metro regional players moving to travel.
Paramount claims that both of their teams are travel teams, so they don't really have a 1s team and a 2s team.
I don’t doubt that is what the club says, but there is very clearly a 1s and a 2s team. Whichever team went to Triple Crown and more qualifiers is the 1s team.
Both of Paramount's 15s teams went to triple crown this year. But there is definitely a 1s and a 2s team! The 15-2 team returned about 2/3 of their team from last year. They lost 5 players and added 5 new players. They are clearly Paramount's best 2s team and may be an outlier - they finished 3rd at regionals behind Metro and Paramount 1s team. The other Paramount 2s teams finished towards the bottom of the standings at regionals though they are still arguably more competitive than 2s teams at most other clubs, except maybe MVSA.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t having multiple levels per club take care of this? For example, Maryland Juniors has three club levels (Elite, Open, and Regional) with two teams per club. That’s SIX clubs. Can’t Metro create more Travel level teams instead of just one Travel and multiple Regional teams?
Paramount has been the only club that has had regional success with their "2nd" teams. Paramount qualified their 14-2 team last year and their 15-2 team this year. Metro's 2nd teams are local teams that aren't even competitive within the region. Their only focus is their travel teams. There isn't enough talent in the area for their to be three true open level clubs, and to have multiple teams in an age group that have a chance to earn bids takes a lot of work (and a lot of great coaches)
Isn't the 15-2 from this year mostly the 14-2 team from last year? I don't expect Paramount to bleed a lot of players, so have the players shuffled between the two 15 teams? I am not familiar with their roster and I don't want to do research - I am hoping that someone is familiar with their rosters.
I dont think I saw any player move up from paramount 2’s team to 1’s. Paramount 1’s team seems to recruit players outside of their club. Same as metro- I don’t see metro regional players moving to travel.
Paramount claims that both of their teams are travel teams, so they don't really have a 1s team and a 2s team.
I don’t doubt that is what the club says, but there is very clearly a 1s and a 2s team. Whichever team went to Triple Crown and more qualifiers is the 1s team.
Anonymous wrote:This is what I had in mind when I started this thread: a place mostly for the beginners to learn about camps, clinics, leagues and other volleyball activities. The focus seems to have shifted toward bids and top clubs, pretty much the same way the discussion goes on other threads. May I suggest opening a different thread to exchange information about what teams got what bids? I think that thread would have a somewhat different audience.
Anonymous wrote:For complete beginners, U11 MOCO is good.
But do not go there if your daughter has a bit of volleyball experience. The coaches for the 2024/25 season were very inexperienced. Practices were not challenging. And the coaches did very little coaching during tournaments.
Given the limited number of clubs offering U11 teams, I would suggest doing tryouts for U12 teams if your daughter is mature enough. There is more choice and most kids in U12 teams have some volleyball experience so the heterogenity in skill levels is typically lower within teams (U12-1, U12-2, …)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:CHRVA Open Bids, 2024-25 Season:
13 Open: Blue Ridge
14 Open: Metro 14 Travel
15 Open: Paramount VBC 15 Maureen
16 Open: Paramount VBC 16 Nick
17 Open: Metro 17 Travel
18 Open: Metro 18 Travel
Paramount VBC 15 Maureen is not on the 15 Open list.
https://usavolleyball.org/compete/girls-indoor/2025-girls-and-18s-qualifier-results/
Paramount VBC 15 Maureen got the Open Bid at the Far Western Qualifier. Two bids were available at the tournament. They are the only U15 CHRVA team with an Open Bid this season
I don’t understand why Paramount supporters (and their social media accounts) constantly have to point out that they are the only CHRVA club to do some narrowly defined thing. In this case there is literally a list a few posts ago that shows there is only a single CHRVA team qualified in open at every age group from 13-18s.
As far as I know, this is the first time as a region that CHRVA has a team qualified open in every age group with an open division. I also think this may be the first time that 3 different CHRVA clubs qualified teams in open in the same season. Hopefully that means the level of play in the DMV is starting to catch up to other areas of the country with many more strong teams.
I thought the same thing. Their long post about how they’re the only CHRVA team blah blah blah… makes me cringe. Paramount is a great club, but they work way too hard to promote/market themselves by presenting limited information. As far as records show, only the two teams coached by directors are doing well, other teams just okay. Maybe they’re hoping such marketing will draw more talents for other age groups.
Doesn't Paramount have the most teams qualified for GJNC this season in CHRVA? That seems more than okay? Metro has the most teams qualified in Open this year (3).
I don't understand the compulsion to have to make a comparison to other CHRVA clubs. Looking at the USAV spreadsheets, Paramount has 2 open bids, 3 national bids, 1 USA bid, and 2 American bids for a total of 8 bids. Metro has 3 open bids and 4 national bids for a total of 7.
Is 8 total bids with 3 being in lower divisions a better accomplishment than having 7 total bids, but in higher divisions? I don't know and to me making those sorts of oddly specific comparisons seems like a not-so-thinly veiled attempt to one up Metro instead of just celebrating your club's accomplishments.
Look at all the club's in Texas and California. There are two things that have the most status in terms of differentiating clubs from better to worst: Open Bids and total teams qualified. The fact that Metro has U12-U18 qualified, and three open bids is impressive. The fact that Paramount has U12-U18 qualified, with two open bids as well as their 15-2 team qualified, is super impressive. As far as I'm aware, I don't know of any of "2nd/"B'" from other clubs that ever qualify in the CHRVA Region.
I don’t think anyone is trying to minimize Paramount’s impressive accomplishments. Their success is worthy of celebrating. I think the point being made is that the constant framing of those accomplishments as a comparison to other CHRVA clubs is a bit odd and unnecessary.
Also, as others have noted, it is not unprecedented for CHRVA clubs’ 2nd teams to qualify for GJNC. Another one that comes to mind is Metro 18 North has gotten a bid a few times, although it’s been a few years since that happened (they did go to 18 Nationals in the no-bid required, pay-to-play Patriot division the last couple years)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:CHRVA Open Bids, 2024-25 Season:
13 Open: Blue Ridge
14 Open: Metro 14 Travel
15 Open: Paramount VBC 15 Maureen
16 Open: Paramount VBC 16 Nick
17 Open: Metro 17 Travel
18 Open: Metro 18 Travel
Paramount VBC 15 Maureen is not on the 15 Open list.
https://usavolleyball.org/compete/girls-indoor/2025-girls-and-18s-qualifier-results/
Paramount VBC 15 Maureen got the Open Bid at the Far Western Qualifier. Two bids were available at the tournament. They are the only U15 CHRVA team with an Open Bid this season
I don’t understand why Paramount supporters (and their social media accounts) constantly have to point out that they are the only CHRVA club to do some narrowly defined thing. In this case there is literally a list a few posts ago that shows there is only a single CHRVA team qualified in open at every age group from 13-18s.
As far as I know, this is the first time as a region that CHRVA has a team qualified open in every age group with an open division. I also think this may be the first time that 3 different CHRVA clubs qualified teams in open in the same season. Hopefully that means the level of play in the DMV is starting to catch up to other areas of the country with many more strong teams.